Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 09, 2005, 03:19:05 PM
its been done since the LS1 came out
id rather have an LS1 in a stang over a 4.6 any day
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 09, 2005, 03:34:13 PM
UH-OH maybe I'm wrong, but I see 4.6 mod motors laying in the weeds... Its gonna be just like the old days when the Hot Rodders were pulling flatheads and installing SBCs.
It may be a Chevy, but the LS1s are sweet...
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: shame302 on September 09, 2005, 03:35:44 PM
oh boy..personally...i never touch the stuff. honestly, that would be a realy great swap. its certainly not my cup of tea. its sacralage...i m not all that much of a purist but i do get turned right off when i see a ford motor in a chevy or gm product in a ford weather it be a hot/streetrod or a piss-ant little daily driver.
i support the guy for trying something different. not alot of guys would even concider that. weather its a gm or not, that cars gonna be fast, and a huge inprovement over stock and thats what its all about....
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bane on September 09, 2005, 05:49:17 PM
im with tbird, id take the ls1 over a 4.6 anyday.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 09, 2005, 07:26:21 PM
Quote
id take the ls1 over a 4.6 anyday.
I'd take a 5.0 Cammer over both :D
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 09, 2005, 08:50:23 PM
An LS1 into a Ford? Not my cup of tea (gimme a supercharged 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine), but worse things have happened to Fords:
Actual car for sale on eBay right now:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 09, 2005, 08:54:47 PM
Oh boy look at the running boards! :yuck: :barf:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 09, 2005, 08:59:25 PM
Speaking of CVs on ebay... About 3 months ago there was a '02 Vic up for sale that had a LS1 conversion....
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Red_LX on September 10, 2005, 07:45:10 PM
I think I'd do a 351 swap before an LS1. :disappoin
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 10, 2005, 08:00:48 PM
I dig my 4.6 with the 3 valve setup. I just wish it had about 100 more cubic inches.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: nirvanagod on September 10, 2005, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: Paul Flockhart
I just wish it had about 100 more cubic inches.
I smell a stroke and or bore coming on!
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88turbo on September 11, 2005, 12:27:32 AM
why give up the 4.6 dohc for an ls1 the 96 mystic I rode in was super fast probably the fastest stock mustang I have ridden in. havent had a chance to ride in an 05
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: shame302 on September 11, 2005, 01:01:02 AM
Quote
why give up the 4.6 dohc for an ls1 the 96 mystic
as much as id hate to say it myself..an ls1 or lt1 would eat it...
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 11, 2005, 05:04:49 AM
yeah 400+ hp on a stock engine with all accesories(depending, I think that they start around 300hp), I think that would kill a 215 hp stang any day....
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: tbirdmanjwg on September 11, 2005, 11:40:09 AM
I Don't care how "cool" of a swap it would be, to put a GM motor in a ford is just disrespectful, and that goes the other way around. And what is your guys' deal? you need to pick up a new mustang and fast fords magazine and see what ford owners are doing with the 4.6. Come on now, six bolt mains, over head cams, high rev capabilites... it has great potential for awsome performance motor. I think that I will just stick with my windsor small blocks for now, I'm quite fond of them, or mabye I'll get into the 335 series one day.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 11, 2005, 12:25:46 PM
why does anyone care really? and engine is an engine. wether its chevy or not dosent really matter. Its still got heads camshaft and oil filer. There really isnt any difference. And who cars if a 32 ford has a chebby engine? Most of us would kill to have a car the exact way that we want it. So why ridacule everyone else for doing what they love? A SBC with 400+ hp is kickass no matter who made it or who owns it. It could be a junkyard fix from a blown engine, or it could be a $11000 custom shop job. Its still a 400hp mustang. So stop getting you panties in a twist and sit down and shut up. If you dont think that is cool then good for you. Is it blastfumious to add a 9" rear to a chevy car? Is it wrong to add a chevy 6 speed to a small block ford? All the trannies are made by the same people. There is a t56 in a viper corvette and mustang. There are ford blocks in some dodge trucks with the hemi heads. Yeah dodge's 400 hp trucks have old ford engines.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Red_LX on September 11, 2005, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Haystack
yeah 400+ hp on a stock engine with all accesories(depending, I think that they start around 300hp), I think that would kill a 215 hp stang any day....
A '96 Cobra would have 305 hp.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Ether947 on September 11, 2005, 03:25:05 PM
Quote from: Haystack
why does anyone care really? and engine is an engine. wether its chevy or not dosent really matter. Its still got heads camshaft and oil filer. There really isnt any difference. And who cars if a 32 ford has a chebby engine? Most of us would kill to have a car the exact way that we want it. So why ridacule everyone else for doing what they love? A SBC with 400+ hp is kickass no matter who made it or who owns it. It could be a junkyard fix from a blown engine, or it could be a $11000 custom shop job. Its still a 400hp mustang. So stop getting you panties in a twist and sit down and shut up. If you dont think that is cool then good for you. Is it blastfumious to add a 9" rear to a chevy car? Is it wrong to add a chevy 6 speed to a small block ford? All the trannies are made by the same people. There is a t56 in a viper corvette and mustang. There are ford blocks in some dodge trucks with the hemi heads. Yeah dodge's 400 hp trucks have old ford engines.
Don't forget about PBR calipers. Same as Corvette. I don't see why everyone get's so upset about putting an LS1 into a Cobra. I would do it in a heartbeat if given a chance. :) Brand loyalty means squat these days. I bet if he put that LS1 into an Integra/Civic and made it RWD everybody would be cheering him on. Frankly I get more upset when ppl drop a 5.0 into a TC than I would ever get upset at this guy for destroying 3 DOHCs and slapping an LS engine in his Cobra. My only quam is that he did it to a Mystic Cobra, which is a rare car, but it is his car so it still shouldn't matter. A mod is a mod, reguardless of the part's origin.
But the arguement will never cease, just like the Pushrod vs. Modular debate, so I've wasted my time typing this... darn. :disappoin
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 11, 2005, 04:07:55 PM
RX7 SBC (http://www.centralillinoisdomestics.org/vb3/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=64) RX7 SBC (http://www.centralillinoisdomestics.org/vb3/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=66) Time Slip (http://www.centralillinoisdomestics.org/vb3/vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=46)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: MexCougar on September 11, 2005, 04:29:10 PM
If you want to put a chevy engine in a Ford Car, is Okay...... If You want to drive over a cliff is Okay,Too.... If You want to Drive over a cliff with the Chevy Engine in the Ford Car is completely OK.....
For some of Us the Sense of Loyality Ford Car-Ford Engine is an important thing....
(http://teaca.iespana.es/almacen/Cougar.jpg)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 11, 2005, 04:32:49 PM
Quote from: darkthunder
Brand loyalty means squat these days.
..to *you*.
I have four Fords out in the front yard that say otherwise for myself.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 11, 2005, 04:44:04 PM
Quote from: tbirdmanjwg
I Don't care how "cool" of a swap it would be, to put a GM motor in a ford is just disrespectful, and that goes the other way around. And what is your guys' deal? you need to pick up a new mustang and fast fords magazine and see what ford owners are doing with the 4.6. Come on now, six bolt mains, over head cams, high rev capabilites... it has great potential for awsome performance motor...
Try putting ANY type of power adder on one that doesn't have forged internals. The DOHC has had six bolt mains since it was first produced. That does not stop it from spitting the internals everywhere when more than 6 psi is put on it. Yes they have great power potential when SC'd (I've seen cars with more than 700 rwhp on boost alone) but they are dammed expensive to make them last. I priced out many a 2V N/A buildup back when I had my 1996 cougar. The 2V motors have the most aftermarket support right now since there are so many cars with them. Getting a forged 2V motor that can produce approx 350 HP with good parts you are looking at more than $8,000.00 on the motor alone. For a DOHC you are looking at more than 10. Just regular replacement parts for the inside of that motor are expensive. You can go right to summit and buy an LS1 complete with everything to hook it up for less than 4K, have a baseline of 320 HP and have very far to go from there. I personally don't give a F what the badge says on the car. The only reason why my 88 XR7 doesn't have any other brand engine in it is solely based on the fact that I'm too lazy to force another brand in when my 351 fits fine. I guess the only thing I can say is that I would've first tried to get my hands on an '03 Cobra motor before forcing a GM engine in there.
Quote from: Red_LX
A '96 Cobra would have 305 hp.
It's *supposed* to have 305 hp. However put one on a dyno next to a 305 HP z28 and see which is which. I have never seen more than 254 rwhp from a 1996-1998 cobra. Likewise I have never seen less than 280 rwhp from a 1997-1998 Z28. Hell, my 98 LSC with "290 HP" has never put down more than 210 rwhp. I don't think my drivetrain is costing me 80 hp. Quite a difference from the factory rating.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 11, 2005, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: Bird351
..to *you*.
I have four Fords out in the front yard that say otherwise for myself.
yeah I dont know anything about brand loyalties,.... Being as i have 3 cougars 1 tracert a full sized ford econoline a crownvic and a tempo.....hmm that is what 7 ford cars.(and three of them are 5'0 )
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 11, 2005, 05:37:25 PM
Last 5 cars have been FoMoCo products. Heck I even had a hand in turning my in-laws over from the darkside after their fiasco with the Grand Am.
Quote
yeah 400+ hp on a stock engine with all accesories(depending, I think that they start around 300hp), I think that would kill a 215 hp stang any day
96-98 2V -- 215 HP 99-04 2V -- 260 HP Mustang 4V N/A -- 305-320 HP Mustang 4V SCed -- 390 HP 2005+ 3V -- 300HP
Quote
So stop getting you panties in a twist and sit down and shut up. If you dont think that is cool then good for you.
My *ahem* "panties" aren't in a twist. This IS a forum where one can voice their opinion. That's all I was doing.
Quote
It's *supposed* to have 305 hp. However put one on a dyno next to a 305 HP z28 and see which is which. I have never seen more than 254 rwhp from a 1996-1998 cobra.
The Chevy motor in this case is underated. They are widely known to have been. The same is true for most Ford engines after the Cobra incident when they were rated at 320 HP and things just did not add up. 254 is just about right for a motor rated at 305 perhaps slightly on the low side..... 17 percent drive line loss. I've seen newer Cobras rated at 390 pull 385 STOCK.
Quote
the 96 mystic I rode in was super fast probably the fastest stock mustang I have ridden in. havent had a chance to ride in an 05
They are pretty close. A good driver can pull low 13's out of a stock 05 manual, I've seen 13.6's for the auto (again stock). The few mods I've done will put me in front of an LT1 and most likely on par with an LS1.
Quote
I priced out many a 2V N/A buildup back when I had my 1996 cougar. The 2V motors have the most aftermarket support right now since there are so many cars with them. Getting a forged 2V motor that can produce approx 350 HP with good parts you are looking at more than $8,000.00 on the motor alone. For a DOHC you are looking at more than 10.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 11, 2005, 06:20:30 PM
Brand Loyalty? Hmmm...
There's a Ford and a Dodge in the driveway that are mine, and two more visiting Dodges that belong to my father and sister. I've owned Saturns, Volvos, Daewoos, Nissans, Toyotas, Pontiacs, Chevies, Hyundais, Hondas (Motorcycles), Jeeps, and probably others I've forgotten. Apart from the six Thunderbirds & Cougars I've owned I've almost no Ford loyalty (the only other Fords I had were a Tempo and a Galaxie 500). I "root for" Ford in comparison tests in magazines, but only because I know the GM cars are gonna lose and I wanna see a domestic win. Apart from the new Mustang and the GT Ford does not make a car that interests me. GM's Corvette and GTO are the only cars that float my boat from that camp. DCX, however, has several cars I'd be proud to put in the drivieway...
I'd still rather see a Ford in a Ford, though. I don't have anything against GM engines and have had several SBC's myself, but I do get bored looking at them. MM&FF magazine is almost as bad, though, with its 100 pages of ads to make your 5.0 exactly like every other 5.0 in the magazine...
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 11, 2005, 06:53:01 PM
When you add in the only intake manifold capable of supporting a hi-po 2V ( the $1700.00 SVO intake)
That leaves you with:
GT "Street" $6895 + $1700.00 = $8595.00 still a heck of alot more than an LS1. Not only that, but those blocks use production NPI-PI heads that are CNC'd. Getting modular heads CNC ported from a REPUTABLE machine shop is a 1,600.00 order. If you were to use SVO heads that were CNC'd you're looking at anywhere from $1000.00 to 1,600.00 more than that.
Second, those kits use stock PI camshafts. God forbid you were to use a set of comp of crower cams (1200 per pair). The bottom line is, those prices are even more exorbitant because my example of a hi- po 2V included using aftermarket cams and CNC'd SVO components. These guys are charging 7000.00 for an engine with ported stock heads and stock cams. Not worth it IMHO.
The 4V'er isn't quite as expensive as it used to be, but still not cheap.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 11, 2005, 06:58:55 PM
No argument here. That was actually in support of what you said about the prices
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 11, 2005, 07:00:20 PM
Quote from: Paul Flockhart
No argument here. That was actually in support of what you said about the prices
Oh, sorry 'bout that.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 11, 2005, 07:06:57 PM
For something a little more geared towards our fox bodies:http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=7367
Modular motor parts are expensive unfortunately.....I'll just have to keep workin OT
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 11, 2005, 08:04:48 PM
Quote
And who cars if a 32 ford has a chebby engine? Most of us would kill to have a car the exact way that we want it.
A few weeks ago I made the short trip up to Ric's neighborhood in Cleveland for a car show. In the lot was a stunning old pearl white Lincoln Zephyr. A few of the details were a little gawdy to me but overall this car was just long, mean, slammed and gorgeous. I'm taking photos of the car, and a guy about 50-60 years old looks under the hood, and says, "Now why the hell would you put all this work into the car and drop in a Chevy motor?"
And I laughed. Why indeed....I can tell you why. A Chevy 350 is just like a Dell computer...reasonably priced, available widely to near everyone, does a decent job, good bang for the buck. It is not so much an engine as it is a commodity in the hot rod world. Is there anything wrong with that? Not really. If people want it, Chevrolet will still keep building it.
That still doesn't excuse anyone from being a plain old cheap . "Well, let's see, I bought the car for $5G, paint and bodywork were $8G, wheels/tires/suspension was $3G. What motor to go with? Well, why make it difficult...I just go to the grocery store (aka Summit) and pick me up a nice, cheap 350 with a chrome dress-up kit."
*yawn* Next....
The cars that stand out in your mind will ALWAYS have something different when it comes to the engine. Let me bold this for ya: The 350 is not different. It is now a "me-too" engine, not the trend-setter it once was. It is a 50-year-old engine that has been ported, beefed, hacked, rehacked and done to death (just pick up HOT ROD magazine sometime). Some people find comfort in the old-school design and I guess that's alright if that's what makes them happy. But just imagine what something different would do to snazz up an otherwise "ordinary" car.
Hot rodding, in the truest sense, means taking something ordinary and turning it into something extraordinary. Using taillights, headlights, door handles, engines. etc. from another car, tweaking it, sweating it out, using your BRAIN POWER to solve a problem, to come up with the ultimate solution, to make something mundane into something slicker than piss. To go the extra mile because it's NOT easy. To be a pioneer. To be the person that will not believe "it can't be done."
Putting a 350 in an old hot rod is NOT hot rodding anymore.
Putting an LS1 into a Mustang is.
If you don't know the difference...it's never too late to learn.
PS: The LS1 is not a 350...it is a completely different motor than the old 350, and it shares nothing with it.
Quote
I don't have anything against GM engines and have had several SBC's myself, but I do get bored looking at them. MM&FF magazine is almost as bad, though, with its 100 pages of ads to make your 5.0 exactly like every other 5.0 in the magazine...
So true...sad but true. It's starting to be difficult to be different anymore. That just makes me work twice as hard to be different. ;)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: CougarSE on September 11, 2005, 08:16:59 PM
Ls1 engines are one of the best engines out there. While I wouldn't put one in my Cougar, I would consider it for about anything. It is the modern day small block chevy.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 11, 2005, 10:30:39 PM
I think it all comes down to how brand loyal you are. I wouldn't put a Chevy in a Ford but if all you want to do is go fast by all means put what ever engine you want in your car. I do agree, however, that the small block Chevy isn't anything new any more. Every time I go to a cruise night I see 4-5 old (ie repo) 30's Fords hot rods. What do they have for power? Why a 350 ofcourse. Once I did see something that made everyone take a second look. A guy pulled in with a 32 Ford with a 460 Ford in it. Yeah that's right it had a Ford big block. That was one of the coolest cars I have seen in a long time. Now if I could only afford to build one.......
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 11, 2005, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302
Once I did see something that made everyone take a second look. A guy pulled in with a 32 Ford with a 460 Ford in it. Yeah that's right it had a Ford big block. That was one of the coolest cars I have seen in a long time. Now if I could only afford to build one.......
Nice. I remember at Fords@Carlisle in 1997 there was a dude that parked a C3 Corvette in the infield. Everyone was like, WTF? Until you waded through the crowd surrounding the car and saw the Ford 460 stuffed very nicely under tha hoodie. ;)
I think the 350 thing is about money, first and foremost. You gotta remember, most of those older guys have these wives that keep nagging them about how much money they're spending on their "toy", and won't "let" them spend money on a really big or expensive engine. Now the crafty guys, they find ways to get around all that nagging and get the engine they want. But for a majority, they're probably lucky to just get a 350!
BTW, the father of the dude that painted my car has a '29 Ford that he restored. It's a 4-door with a wood roof, and the car was carefully and painstakingly crafted with a few nice custom touches. For instance, he took the middle section of a 1992-95 Mercury Sable taillight (the reflector part that stays on the trunklid, like the MN12 cars) and made it into the taillights, down way low between the fenders. And he even went through the trouble to lengthen the front end 6", specifically for the fitment of a 351W. Sure, they could have just dumped in a 350 and called it a day...but they chose not to. The car is just sweet, unique, detailed, and ALL Ford. It takes some time, commitment, creativity, and money of course, but it can be done the correct way if you want to.
But I think the notion of using an LS1 in a Cobra is just insanely creative.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88foxt on September 11, 2005, 11:17:26 PM
I'm sorry but a chevy in a 96 Mystic Cobra. No. what the hell. Brand loyal is still important to some. Creative, creative imo would of been a ford single overhead cam 4.0 liter v6 twin turbo, or a 400 plus hp svo turbo 4 cylinder but a chevy not creative . :flame:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 12, 2005, 12:30:22 AM
Quote from: 88foxt
I'm sorry but a chevy in a 96 Mystic Cobra. No. what the hell. Brand loyal is still important to some. Creative, creative imo would of been a ford single overhead cam 4.0 liter v6 twin turbo, or a 400 plus hp svo turbo 4 cylinder but a chevy not creative . :flame:
how is it creative, theyve both been done numerous times, ive even seen a 4.0 twin turbo in an EXPLORER
the LS1 in the mustang has reason, i look at it as function over form, he was blowing up 4.6's left and right
lets think about this, how many of you actually know anything about an LS1? guys that will do heads, cam and intakes on the cars, with the other bolt ons can hit 10's! ive never seen a stock displacement, stock rotating assembly Ford small block do that without forced induction
for a race car, the idea is great
for a street/show kinda car, i feel slight brand loyalty
a big thing with the chevy 350, you can flip through summit, buy a 400hp small block, have it tuned, and ready to drop in, even with some pretty valve covers. Not everyone has the know how, or the money to build their own engine, so why not have it done?
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: MexCougar on September 12, 2005, 01:06:24 AM
Hey Mr, Dess, do you want some insanely creative ????
Put a 350 Chevy in a Fox Cougar Convertible........
(http://teaca.iespana.es/almacen/Cougar.jpg)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Red_LX on September 12, 2005, 01:17:41 AM
Man, anybody who thinks it's "OK" to put a 350 into an old street rod should pick up a copy of Street Rodder magazine sometime, and you'll see why I am vehemently against it. I used to have a subscription to Street Rodder and I cancelled it. Why? Because every month it was the same old shiznit in that magazine. '32/33 Ford, 350/350, Mustang II IFS, Ford 9" rear, blah, blah, blah. I can understand the suspension maybe, since the Mustang II IFS/9" rear have the most parts available for them (hell it's hard to find anything else), but the engine category needs more variety in it these days. I mean, these guys are usually spending $20K+ on these street rods, I think they could afford to get a little more creative in the engine department than a carbed 350.
At our county fair back in August, some guy had a '39 (I think) Chevy coupe, painted flat black with a big block under the hood and side pipes. Suh-weet.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 12, 2005, 07:26:27 AM
I would take an old flat head anyday over a chevy in a street rod/rat rod.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 12, 2005, 07:27:58 AM
I would take an old flat head anyday over a chevy in a street rod/rat rod. Doesn't matter if its a ford. hudson, what ever.
As for the 350 chevy into a fox seen it done already there is a guy here with an 87 Mustnag with a 350/350 combo that drag races.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 12, 2005, 09:21:59 AM
Quote from: MexCougar
Hey Mr, Dess, do you want some insanely creative ????
Put a 350 Chevy in a Fox Cougar Convertible........
I don't want to hammer out my firewall. ;)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Blown306Cougar on September 12, 2005, 09:35:43 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
I don't want to hammer out my firewall. ;)
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :rollin:
IE big fat GM HEI distributor that gets installed in the rear of a chevy 350 motor :giggle: i'll pass i'd rather shove a 460 in my cougar which might happen one day :evilgrin: if there ever would be a motor that was'nt a ford motor that i would put in my cougar. it would be only 413 or 426 max wedge or a 426 hemi !!
*edit* or do what someone else did on this message board.. a caddy motor :evilgrin: to this day my old time friends bust my ball$ about getting rid of that motor.. big time HP with out boost!!
i still sometimes miss that car.. i wish i had some good pictures of it to show everyone :disappoin to see other motor heads faces when i used to race it was funny as hell!! :giggle:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88turbo on September 12, 2005, 10:01:54 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
I don't want to hammer out my firewall. ;)
Ah come on it would be "Creative" :D :giggle:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 12, 2005, 11:10:55 AM
It would be creative, yes...but in my case, the only part of the car that's holding the car together is the firewall. ;)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Funky Cricket on September 12, 2005, 01:36:09 PM
i see it two ways.
1: if it is a race car.. sweet, that engine is mad powerful.
2: show.. if it was put in his mystic.. ruins show value for a fairly rare vehicle..
eitherway. it is his car, if thats whay he likes, then it is all him, though personally, i would have tried to get an '03/04 cobra motor..
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 12, 2005, 01:50:36 PM
Personally I'd like to know about the hoops he had to jump through to get his car repainted Mystic again... ;)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bane on September 12, 2005, 04:35:28 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
Nice. I remember at Fords@Carlisle in 1997 there was a dude that parked a C3 Corvette in the infield. Everyone was like, WTF? Until you waded through the crowd surrounding the car and saw the Ford 460 stuffed very nicely under tha hoodie. ;)
he was there this past year aswell, me, my gf, and tbird(shawn) were walking from the parking lot and watched him pull through the gates. People were laughing an pointing an shiznit, walked back by later when his stand was up. to find out he had a 460 in it.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88foxt on September 12, 2005, 07:31:01 PM
KEEP IT REAL FORD IN A FORD. WHY SO MUCH LOVE FOR LS1's WHEN WE DRIVE FORDS? IF HE's BLOWIN UP MOTORS IT'S NOT THE MOTORS FAULT SOMEONE IS NOT DOING SOMETHING RIGHT AND I DON"T THINK IT'S FORD. I FIND IT FUNNY THIS IS A FOX SITE YET PEOPLE ARE DEFENDING CHEVY AS IF THAT'S WHAT'S KING HERE.
I MEAN IT'S THE GUYS CAR AND HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS. BUT IMO HE JUST MESSED THAT CAR UP. CREATIVE I JUST DON'T SEE IT! I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH REDLX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . FORD :bowdown:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 12, 2005, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: 88foxt
KEEP IT REAL FORD IN A FORD. WHY SO MUCH LOVE FOR LS1's WHEN WE DRIVE FORDS? IF HE's BLOWIN UP MOTORS IT'S NOT THE MOTORS FAULT SOMEONE IS NOT DOING SOMETHING RIGHT AND I DON"T THINK IT'S FORD. . . .
OH BUT It IS, YOU SEE THE 4.6L WAS DESIGNED TO DO 3 THINGS
Make decent NA power
Get great gas mileage
Last for many miles.
Not to mention the most important issue be cheap to produce.
In order for the engine to rev freely and get great mileage, the internals were made with lightweight (py) components. It has "I" beam connecting rods that are about as thick as my thumb, hyperautectic pistons, and ringlands that break extremely easily. Hell, I've seen 4.6's break ring lands just from spark knock! The stock shortblock was not meant to have any type of forced induction PERIOD. The parts just can't take that stress. If you force induce one and it doesn't break immediately, you are only running on borrowed time. The only real "safe" way to force induce one is the never go over 6psi, run it rich and pull the timing out. Most V8's even force induced ones would still run like , but since the 4.6 does well with forced induction, you could still turn decent numbers with this setup. That doesn't safe-gaurd it from blowing up still. Most people try and get away with it anyway simply due to the fact that a forged motor is that pricey. It is actually cheaper to just replace the motor when it breaks (as another DOHC can be had close to new for about 1,500.00) . Don't belive me? go to the corral or any mustang site for that matter and do a search with "blew my motor up".
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: shame302 on September 12, 2005, 09:02:05 PM
hell..there all junk....
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88foxt on September 12, 2005, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: Mercoug302
OH BUT It IS, YOU SEE THE 4.6L WAS DESIGNED TO DO 3 THINGS
Make decent NA power
Get great gas mileage
Last for many miles.
Not to mention the most important issue be cheap to produce.
In order for the engine to rev freely and get great mileage, the internals were made with lightweight (py) components. It has "I" beam connecting rods that are about as thick as my thumb, hyperautectic pistons, and ringlands that break extremely easily. Hell, I've seen 4.6's break ring lands just from spark knock! The stock shortblock was not meant to have any type of forced induction PERIOD. The parts just can't take that stress. If you force induce one and it doesn't break immediately, you are only running on borrowed time. The only real "safe" way to force induce one is the never go over 6psi, run it rich and pull the timing out. Most V8's even force induced ones would still run like , but since the 4.6 does well with forced induction, you could still turn decent numbers with this setup. That doesn't safe-gaurd it from blowing up still. Most people try and get away with it anyway simply due to the fact that a forged motor is that pricey. It is actually cheaper to just replace the motor when it breaks (as another DOHC can be had close to new for about 1,500.00) . Don't belive me? go to the corral or any mustang site for that matter and do a search with "blew my motor up".
THAT ALL MAY BE TRUE BUT STILL FORD IN A FORD , DO A 460,351 or stroked 302 anything ford no chevy power in a ford.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: shame302 on September 12, 2005, 11:59:54 PM
Quote
Make decent NA power
Get great gas mileage
Last for many miles.
Not to mention the most important issue be cheap to produce.
and this is not true for gm....?
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 13, 2005, 10:02:55 AM
And for my next trick: http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=178 Not too creative, but Ford motor in a Ford and not too much PSI. 2/3 of funds saved.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Funky Cricket on September 13, 2005, 10:33:29 AM
we aren't defending chevy's, and this is a car messageboard, no nessesarry just a FORD message board. we love cars. cars cars cars cars cars. and no lying that chevy makes a few good products.
I personally wouldn't have done it, but it will make it different then every other run of the mill 5.0/350 out there and no lying that it will be ed fast. do i like it, not really. already said that. but not gunna bust his balls to bad when he can smoke me in a drag race and did all that work.
and nice little SC setup..
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 13, 2005, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Paul Flockhart
And for my next trick: http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=178 Not too creative, but Ford motor in a Ford and not too much PSI. 2/3 of funds saved.
Hey... It's only $4995, I'll take two.... :D
On the original topic, I don't really think he should be swappin a Chevy engine in a Mystic Cobra(or really any Cobra, but attrition is what makes them more valuable in the future. Hey I'm doin my part to increase the TCs value). But its his bought and paid for, so like it or not the desision is wholly his.
But I do say a 4.6 2v(or 3.8) would be fair game. Over on the LSC board a guy swapped a LS1 in a Mark VII.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: shame302 on September 13, 2005, 10:48:10 AM
Quote
I don't really think he should be swappin a Chevy engine in a Mystic Cobra(or really any Cobra, but attrition is what makes them more valuable in the future.
i agree...i would have rather seen it fixed, sold or whatever and then secrafice a v6 stang...maybe even a gt. the mystics are georgeous cars and the value of his is pretty much gone, not that they are all that valuable. its just not something i would have done. but its not my car. honestly, i dont care if it was the last mystic on earth and he stuck it in a crusher...come to think of it...he kind of did i guess, and he did a favor for anyone who has a pure one....
Quote
And for my next trick: http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product...products_id=178
:headbang: :ies: :laughing: :bowdown:
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 13, 2005, 10:53:00 AM
I dont see what the big deal is. Its a motor in a car. Big deal. Chevy isnt that much diffrent. Its got the same insides and hell, the mustang motor looks almost just like an LS1 anyways. There both similar in many ways. The chevy one just comes with good easy power and the mustang one just takes alot of work.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 13, 2005, 10:57:51 AM
Quote
The chevy one just comes with good easy power and the mustang one just takes alot of work.
Let's use the latest edition of both motors.... LS2=400 HP ----> 66 2/3 HP per liter 4.6 3V =300 HP -----> 65.21 HP per liter
Both come with good easy power. The LS2 has more because of it's size advantage. SIZE MATTERS (BTW my wife can't complain :tg: )
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 13, 2005, 11:13:42 AM
Quote from: 88foxt
THAT ALL MAY BE TRUE BUT STILL FORD IN A FORD , DO A 460,351 or stroked 302 anything ford no chevy power in a ford.
OMG TEEHEE FORD IS KEWL!
so lets see, 460, been done thousands of times, 351, been done many times, stroked 302...probably 920 strokers being built as i type this, hell, all of this has been done ON THIS BOARD
ever heard of the term "cookie cutter", or "unique" or "differnet"
apparantly not, i guess there will be a stock HO in your car soon too huh?
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 13, 2005, 11:20:42 AM
I will start of by saying I'm not taking side in this becasue it is his car an who care what anyone else thinks of it but him.
Now for original why don't you try putting a flat head anything into a fox. I have never seen that and it would kinda be cool. Especialy with a flat head ford v8 with 3 1 barrel cars and cromed heads.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: oldraven on September 13, 2005, 11:24:21 AM
Quote
The cars that stand out in your mind will ALWAYS have something different when it comes to the engine. Let me bold this for ya: The 5.0 is not different. It is now a "me-too" engine, not the trend-setter it once was. It is a 40-year-old engine that has been ported, beefed, hacked, rehacked and done to death (just pick up MM&FF magazine sometime). Some people find comfort in the old-school design and I guess that's alright if that's what makes them happy. But just imagine what something different would do to snazz up an otherwise "ordinary" car.
You're absolutely right, Eric. :giggle: No offense, but your hypocrite sticker is in the mail. ;) For all the uniqueness of your Cougar, you still went with the bread and butter 5.0.
I agree with you, though. The LS1 Mustang is completely unique. It spuppiesed 5 pages in a day. He must be doing something right to set himself apart and get that kind of attention. As for using a rare car, I think he needs his head examined there. This would be perfectly fine in a GT body.
Anyway, bottom line. If you can't apreciate a world class engine because of the name stamped on the block, you are not a true enthusiast. You're a closed minded fanboy. (this isn't for you Eric, just a general statement)
Signed, Adam the proud owner of a Ford, GM, and Chrysler, and ex owner of a VW, Subaru, and Toyota.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 13, 2005, 11:41:07 AM
Quote
No offense, but your hypocrite sticker is in the mail. For all the uniqueness of your Cougar, you still went with the bread and butter 5.0.
Show me another Cougar's engine bay that looks like this, and I'll wholeheartedly agree with you: ;) (http://www.coolcats.net/eric/86convertible/images/conv49.jpg)
The HO 5.0 in the car was never intended for the convertible. I'd bought it in 1995 to stuff into my old black '86. I did a lot of spec work on paper, and for all intents and purposes it was meant to propel the black '86 into the 13's. Also remember at this time (mid-1990's), there was no information in magazines about swapping in an HO motor to our engine bays, let alone info on the Internet.
A scant 9 months after purchasing the convertible, the motor got converted to HO. This was the first attempt I'd ever done at the HO conversion. In fact, I was the first person I ever knew to do it. I learned a lot...so much, in fact, that the info on the site is based upon it. There was no 'instruction manual', there was only my sweat and hard work.
The black '86 got sold in 1998. I got tired of looking at this 4-year-old HO motor, all done up the right way, painted and dressed up, but doing nothing on the engine stand. That is why I took a perfectly good HO-converted motor out of my car and dropped in the current engine.
Would I like a different motor? Sure. Have I found the ultimate solution for my car? Not yet. Could I afford the ultimate solution? Probably not.
I waited 8 years to buy the car. I've had it for almost 10. However long it takes to swap motors, that's how long it takes. I'm a patient person. Until then the current engine will have to do.
But I bet if I were to remove it and list it for sale on the board here, there'd be a lot of interested parties. ;)
You can't knock the 5.0 for what it is. For our cars it's almost perfect. But as the LS1 conversion shows, there's still room for imagination.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 13, 2005, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: oldraven
Anyway, bottom line. If you can't apreciate a world class engine because of the name stamped on the block, you are not a true enthusiast. You're a closed minded fanboy.
YES
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: oldraven on September 13, 2005, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
Show me another Cougar's engine bay that looks like this, and I'll wholeheartedly agree with you: ;) (http://www.coolcats.net/eric/86convertible/images/conv49.jpg)
The HO 5.0 in the car was never intended for the convertible. I'd bought it in 1995 to stuff into my old black '86. I did a lot of spec work on paper, and for all intents and purposes it was meant to propel the black '86 into the 13's. Also remember at this time (mid-1990's), there was no information in magazines about swapping in an HO motor to our engine bays, let alone info on the Internet.
A scant 9 months after purchasing the convertible, the motor got converted to HO. This was the first attempt I'd ever done at the HO conversion. In fact, I was the first person I ever knew to do it. I learned a lot...so much, in fact, that the info on the site is based upon it. There was no 'instruction manual', there was only my sweat and hard work.
The black '86 got sold in 1998. I got tired of looking at this 4-year-old HO motor, all done up the right way, painted and dressed up, but doing nothing on the engine stand. That is why I took a perfectly good HO-converted motor out of my car and dropped in the current engine.
Would I like a different motor? Sure. Have I found the ultimate solution for my car? Not yet. Could I afford the ultimate solution? Probably not.
I waited 8 years to buy the car. I've had it for almost 10. However long it takes to swap motors, that's how long it takes. I'm a patient person. Until then the current engine will have to do.
But I bet if I were to remove it and list it for sale on the board here, there'd be a lot of interested parties. ;)
You can't knock the 5.0 for what it is. For our cars it's almost perfect. But as the LS1 conversion shows, there's still room for imagination.
And quite a 302 it is. :) I can't say I'm breaking any molds with my TC either though. You're just helping me make a point. A car can still be one of a kind and get lots of praise and attention, but still have a dime a doezen motor. You can dress up a 350 too, remember. ;)
I too like would rather see something unique under the hood. Like the late model Iroc I saw a month ago. I've seen a thousand Irocs, but the reason I'll never forget this one is it had a Lingenfelter Performance Engineering LT1 under the hood. Complete with an LPE air conditioning system. An LT1 in a Camaro is like seeing a B18 in a Civic. But never have I even heard of an LPE Camaro. Up until then, I've only seen them in Vettes.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 13, 2005, 02:31:37 PM
Quote
Anyway, bottom line. If you can't apreciate a world class engine because of the name stamped on the block, you are not a true enthusiast. You're a closed minded fanboy.
I just won't mix and match. I would never put a Ford or Mopar engine in a Corvette, and would not put a GM or Mopar engine in a Ford or a Ford or GM engine in a Mopar. Just doesn't seem right to me is all.....
I'd swap an LS2 into my Oldsmobile if I still had it, but into a Mustang.....just aint my thing.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: fordman3 on September 13, 2005, 02:56:45 PM
Ooh, ooh, ooh, can I join in?!
Man, I killed almost my whole lunch hour here at work reading the 7 pages of posts. I like to call myself a purist, and of course I prefer Fords over the others. I've got 4 Ford products in my driveway, and have actually owned only one GM in my whole driving lifetime. My thinking is: if you can afford to do it, and it's not just a cookie-cutter of everybody else's, do it. I do sometimes get bored when I see old Ford rods with 350/350's in them, but I know it's mainly because of the low cost. Five or six years ago I rebuilt a 428CJ for my '69 Mach 1 (which I had to sell after a job layoff), and I know exactly why lots of people choose SBC's. Fords, and especially older big-blocks (FE's specifically), are not cheap to build or rebuild when compared to Chevy's. I had $400 in pistons alone in the CJ. But I love being a little different. I "prefer" keeping like products with like products, but that's not an absolute. Somewhere I saw a '69 Charger with a Viper V10 in it that was very sweet! At a car show last year in my little small town there was a '57 Vette with a late-model LT1 in it that looked like the factory built it. A car I actually want to own someday if the price is right is an '84/'85 Mark VII with the turbo-diesel Beemer (who ever thought of that one originally?). But, I'd have to "LSC" it up in solid black and ditch the chrome, hubcaps, and whitewalls. Heck, the Taurus SHO had a Yamaha motor in it.
I personally wouldn't have put the LS1 in an already rare Cobra Mustang, but that's just me. If he made it work, though, more power to him.
The Vette with a Ford 460 is a first for me! I don't think I've ever heard of a Chevy vehicle going with a Ford powerplant, and especially not in a Vette. Good for him, too.!
Fordman3
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 13, 2005, 03:33:35 PM
Just to make this more interesting.........http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35108
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: EricCoolCats on September 13, 2005, 03:56:47 PM
Quote
You're just helping me make a point. A car can still be one of a kind and get lots of praise and attention, but still have a dime a doezen motor.
The only reason the 5.0 is a dime a dozen is because of ONE car: the Mustang. Take that out of the equation and it's a good solution for a RWD car.
The reason the 350 is a dime a dozen is because of nearly every RWD Bowtie product made since 1955.
There's a big difference there. ;)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Blown306Cougar on September 13, 2005, 04:26:31 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats
The only reason the 5.0 is a dime a dozen is because of ONE car: the Mustang. Take that out of the equation and it's a good solution for a RWD car.
The reason the 350 is a dime a dozen is because of nearly every RWD Bowtie product made since 1955.
There's a big difference there. ;)
now thats a very good point ;)
i remember back in the day when it used to cost two to three times the amount of money build a ford or mopar..
now i won't take anything the new 4 and 6 bolt main chevys but back in the day it was tons's of money for a chevy or anything 4 bolt main in those day and since you could build a 2 bolt chevy for real cheap. where others would cost up to three times as much even in two bolt mains.. but the chevy 2bolt main will only handle about 300 or so rear wheel HP before it dissasembles it self very rapitly!!! where's a ford&mopar SB's would handle over 400+ rear wheel HP...but cost three times as much to rebuild.so "in the 70's and 80's" street racers/weekend racers used the chevy SB they did'nt care at the time if it blew up it was cheap to rebuild..
which is why when i was growing up i was never was into chevys i allready have a nose i don't need another.. and is another reason i desided to get a cougar istead of another mustang.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: jkirchman on September 13, 2005, 05:54:38 PM
Kind of off-topic but what about people that don't have a lot of mechanical skill but still want to try an engine swap? Plus all the other people (like Eric) that simply cannot afford to be as creative as their imagination wants them to be?
I think that ANY mechanical work done to ANY car is worth some appreciation if the owner did it themselves and took the time to learn and do it correctly.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: 88foxt on September 13, 2005, 07:22:31 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci
OMG TEEHEE FORD IS KEWL!
so lets see, 460, been done thousands of times, 351, been done many times, stroked 302...probably 920 strokers being built as i type this, hell, all of this has been done ON THIS BOARD
ever heard of the term "cookie cutter", or "unique" or "differnet"
apparantly not, i guess there will be a stock HO in your car soon too huh?
What's unique about a small block chevy. it's still a small block push rod chevy 350 big deal. You can put any name in front of it .it is what it is. And what if I do have a HO in my bird?
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 13, 2005, 10:00:48 PM
I find all this somewhat amusing.. probably since my definition of unique involves not using a V8 for whatever becomes my big project. 5.0? 351? 460? Modular? SBC? BBC? LT1? Hell, even a Hemi.. they're all still V8s. What happens when all the V8s are done in these cars..?
(of course, what I want to use is so hideous, even Chuck "the pointless swap man" won't touch it.. heh)
What does it even matter if it's "unique" as long as you like what you have and it works for you?
Also, for something oldraven said: What does it get you, exactly, to be a "true enthusiast" or whatever vs. a "fanboy"? (I hate that term.. also hate the term "closed minded", because it's little more than "You don't see things my way, so you're closed minded" when the vast majority of people use the term now) Does it earn you a discount on gas or parts or something? If not, it's worthless.. at least as I see it.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Ifixyawata on September 13, 2005, 10:17:48 PM
This is a Ford-Only message board. 5.0s are boring. We will only discuss 4.6, 5.8 and 7.5L swaps, no more old shiznit. Because there is no longer any discussion of any cars besides Fords, I will ban myself now because I drove a Mopar.
Goodbye.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Chuck W on September 13, 2005, 11:12:23 PM
Quote from: Bird351
(of course, what I want to use is so hideous, even Chuck "the pointless swap man" won't touch it.. heh)
Your 300 swap? Yeah..most likely not. Mainly because I'm not too keen on the potential for it to totally c*&k up the handling with the extra wieght hanging over the front axle (seeing as it's such a long engine and all)..however...I am looking into a Aussie X-flow head/intake to swap into the 200 I have in the Z7 (which may wind up in the 80 XR-7).
As far as the LS2 swap into the Cobra goes.....meh. I've never been a fan of Chevys period...they just don't do it for me. I can appreciate the work, but I'd keep on walking past it once I saw what it was. It's just not all that interesting to me...a Cobra with ugly paint...blah....oh, and it has a Vette engine? Double blah....I usually don't give them a second look (esp the newer ones). Now the guy with the Fairmont with the LS1 is a bit more interesting to me, but still it's mainly a drag car...sooo.............
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 14, 2005, 09:06:56 AM
Quote from: Ifixyawata
This is a Ford-Only message board. 5.0s are boring. We will only discuss 4.6, 5.8 and 7.5L swaps, no more old shiznit. Because there is no longer any discussion of any cars besides Fords, I will ban myself now because I drove a Mopar.
Goodbye.
Oh shiznit. I drive a Dodge for about 5 months of the year (and occasionally through the other seven months, when a truck is required). Does this mean I'll have to ban myself come the end of October when the T-Bird gets mothballed for the winter? :sorry:
And what about this coming spring, when I finally decide to get myself that Volvo 850 T-5 wagon that I've always wanted for a daily driver? I'll always have my T-Bird, of course, but will I still be welcome when I'm putting most of my miles on a Volvo? And a FWD one at that? And a Wagon! Oh, dear...
This is a Ford-oriented messageboard, for sure, except one area. The lounge is here to discuss everything from girlfriend problems to the weather. That includes Chevys, Dodges, Hondas, Packards, or whatever.
The important thing to remember about people putting any engine in their car is that it's their car and they're doing what they want to do with it. Whether I would put an LS1 into a Mystichrome Cobra (which, I've gotta agree with Chuck here, is an ugly color anyway) is irrelevant because I have neither a Mystichrome Cobra nor an LS1 to stuff into it. That guy had the car, he had the engine, he had the tools, and he did what he wanted to do. And in my opinion he ended up with a better car. Better than a supercharged DOHC swap? Probably not, IMHO, but certainly better than a N/A DOHC "swap" (can't really call it a swap as the Cobra had one of these to begin with).
And an LS1 swap couldn't really be considered a bellybutton bowtie swap anyway because the LS1 shares nothing with the old small blocks except its bore spacing. It has no more in common with the 350 than it does with a 302, 351 or even 318/340. As many 350's as you'll find in just about every car including Mustangs and Thunderbirds, you simply don't see many LS1's, so it is a "unique" swap. For now.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: oldraven on September 14, 2005, 10:14:15 AM
Quote from: Bird351
Also, for something oldraven said: What does it get you, exactly, to be a "true enthusiast" or whatever vs. a "fanboy"? (I hate that term.. also hate the term "closed minded", because it's little more than "You don't see things my way, so you're closed minded" when the vast majority of people use the term now) Does it earn you a discount on gas or parts or something? If not, it's worthless.. at least as I see it.
I guess I should clear that up then. ;) That would be a very closed minded definition of the term 'closed minded'. :giggle: jk, man. Take it in the context of, "I refuse to see something in any other way than my own, simply for the sake of it. I am never wrong, even when proven so. I can't accpet anything that isn't within these particular parameters". A perfect description of Fanboy, which is a term that usually irks me too, but it just fits the situation too well. If you can't accept the successes of a competitor or failures of your own favorite, there's a problem.
And being a true enthusiast will get you something. More respect from me and many like me. :drink:
BTW, I like the idea of a straight six TurboCoupe clone (emphasis on 'clone'). In fact, I wish Ford had thought of it first. Are there any sixes that came from FoMoCo that aren't truck engines/boat anchors? Didn't the Capri have one?
Quote from: Chuck W
As far as the LS2 swap into the Cobra goes.....meh.
Holy shiznit. If you saw an LS2 in a Cobra, there would be even more controversy. And it would be an even cooler car than the LS1 Cobra. 400 bowtie branded horses in a Ford Pony. That's just cool, and as unique as you can get.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Chuck W on September 14, 2005, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: oldraven
Holy shiznit. If you saw an LS2 in a Cobra, there would be even more controversy. And it would be an even cooler car than the LS1 Cobra. 400 bowtie branded horses in a Ford Pony. That's just cool, and as unique as you can get.
Oops :sorry: Typo......
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 14, 2005, 11:16:47 AM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
. . . And an LS1 swap couldn't really be considered a bellybutton bowtie swap anyway because the LS1 shares nothing with the old small blocks except its bore spacing. . .
Not even, the LS1 has siamesed bores, 350's don't. It probably has more in common with the 302 than the 350 (ford-like equal spaced exhaust ports). It just flat out ain't any old "chevy small block'.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 14, 2005, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: oldraven
I guess I should clear that up then. ;) That would be a very closed minded definition of the term 'closed minded'. :giggle: jk, man. Take it in the context of, "I refuse to see something in any other way than my own, simply for the sake of it. I am never wrong, even when proven so. I can't accpet anything that isn't within these particular parameters". A perfect description of Fanboy, which is a term that usually irks me too, but it just fits the situation too well. If you can't accept the successes of a competitor or failures of your own favorite, there's a problem.
And being a true enthusiast will get you something. More respect from me and many like me. :drink:
BTW, I like the idea of a straight six TurboCoupe clone (emphasis on 'clone'). In fact, I wish Ford had thought of it first. Are there any sixes that came from FoMoCo that aren't truck engines/boat anchors? Didn't the Capri have one?
Well I can't speak for everyone else on the successes of GM or what not, but aside from the fact that I have family that still works for GM, (so I guess I would hope on *some* level they succeed) I simply don't care what GM does.
Nothing personal, but I tend to see the "respect" thing (at least in the context of this thread) as "that and 35 cents will get you a phone call". Someone else's respect of my car knowledge and appreciation doesn't get me any better gas mileage, it doesn't make my car go faster, it doesn't help me maintain it, etc. The people who help me work on the car when I need the extra hands do it because we're friends and have been for a very long time, not because I happen to know this detail or that.
As for the I6s.. my '81 Capri had the 200 with the infamous "log head".. intake and head are one piece. (1v carb, too.. if I recall) What Chuck mentioned was an Australian head that will work on the "small" (144/170/200/250) I6 with some modifications. From what I gather, the crossflow goes a long way toward making the 200/250 less of a boat anchor.
Its a 200 I6 with a T5. He also has done the SN95 front brage upgrade.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: oldraven on September 14, 2005, 11:31:13 AM
While knowledge does often buy respect, I was talking more about the ability to accept something outside of your own (not you in particular) predefined box. There's nothing worse than talking to a brick wall. (Kind of like talking to my Dad about Toyota. They can do no wrong, even when it's laid out in front of him. They can bold faced lie to their customers about the success of Hybrid Synergy Drive, but it will never shed poor light on the company, or even make it into the media, yet every single bump in GM or Ford's road is international scandal. You've got to see how being closed minded in that respect will grate on a guy's nerves.)
And yes, respect is still important to some of us.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Chuck W on September 14, 2005, 11:36:02 AM
Quote from: Bird351
Chuck: If you used a small I6, would you use a 200 and try to adapt a transmission to it, or use a 250 for the 289/302/351/etc. bellhousing pattern?
I'm going to use the 200 (it's 2/3 of a SBF pattern anyway, and it's not that hard to adapt....
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Funky Cricket on September 14, 2005, 11:37:51 AM
i love the I6 fords.. mmmm they are tasty
yes the capri did have one. I had a carpi with one. the mustang came with one in the 60's/early 70's and in the 80's.
the truck came with one, and mercury marine made one.
ford tractors since the 30's(i think the 30's...??) have had a version of this engine also.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: oldraven on September 14, 2005, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: Chuck W
Oops :sorry: Typo......
:D Chevy and their multitude of LX#'s.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 14, 2005, 12:10:44 PM
why not use a 300 i6? They would have more power, and you could get them fuel injected easier. All you would have to do is find on in a truck. Then a standard sbf tranny would bolt up. I dont think the 300 i6 would weigh too much more then the 200. And the 300 is easier to find.(bronco's f150's lots others)
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Mercoug302 on September 14, 2005, 12:15:27 PM
Quote from: Haystack
why not use a 300 i6? They would have more power, and you could get them fuel injected easier. All you would have to do is find on in a truck. Then a standard sbf tranny would bolt up. I dont think the 300 i6 would weigh too much more then the 200. And the 300 is easier to find.(bronco's f150's lots others)
I'm guessing the reason why Chuck W recommends againts it is due to the fact that you are placing too much weight in front of the K-member (the 300 is a very long motor and will not sit dead center on the K-member like a V8) which will make the car too nose heavy and greatly compromise handling.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Chuck W on September 14, 2005, 12:19:29 PM
Quote from: Haystack
why not use a 300 i6? They would have more power, and you could get them fuel injected easier. All you would have to do is find on in a truck. Then a standard sbf tranny would bolt up. I dont think the 300 i6 would weigh too much more then the 200. And the 300 is easier to find.(bronco's f150's lots others)
Because I'm an obstinant PITA. The Aussie aluminum X-flow head also does not bolt up to a BB I-6. I'm also not looking for stock FI and electronics. As far as power goes...I think the turbo will solve that issue.. :D Also, as I've already mentioned...the way the weight is going to be oriented in the car does not excite me either....
You should know by now that trying to tell me the "easier" or more direct approach doesn't work. :giggle: I'm going to do it my way.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 14, 2005, 12:29:27 PM
Just throwing it out. One of these days you will listen to someone. Just like that one time that you recommended a 5.0 ho.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Chuck W on September 14, 2005, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: Haystack
One of these days you will listen to someone. Just like that one time that you recommended a 5.0 ho.
HA! Not likely.
Also, the 5.0 recommendation was based on the situation with the person involved. I can't expect everyone to have the same predilictions I do towards powerplant choices :hick: Some folks want easy.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Red_LX on September 14, 2005, 01:24:14 PM
Would a 300 six even fit in a Fox engine bay? And if it did, would you be able to close the hood?
Clifford makes some cool-ass stuff for the 300 six (dual quads anyone?), but I was always under the impression that a 300 wouldn't exactly fit in the engine bay of a car.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 14, 2005, 01:29:43 PM
I really oughta mesure that i6 one of these days.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 14, 2005, 01:29:51 PM
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 14, 2005, 02:23:44 PM
Yes, a 300 will fit in a Fox - an old friend of mine had one in an '81 Mustang. The hood closed fine except he had a Capri hood, which was about 3" too long and stuck out over the grille. He didn't put the engine in there (it was there when he bought the car) but whoever did hacked it together.
I'm not sure what engine weighs what, but I'd bet the 300 outweighs the 200 by a considerable margin. The 300 is the "big block" of Ford sixes
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Haystack on September 14, 2005, 02:31:36 PM
yeah I guess. Half of a v-12. I would still go after it. It would still be way lighter and more balanced then most 5.0's. I'll see if I can pull some numbers.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: slamedcat on September 14, 2005, 02:36:20 PM
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 14, 2005, 02:51:58 PM
Ford 170-250 L6 385 (except Australian w/aluminum head) Ford 5.0 V8 450 (109)
If the 300 is significantly heavier than the 250, then it doesn't have much wiggle room to be "way lighter" than a 5.0.
My desire for the 300 stems from a quirky liking of I6s. I'd want to use a 250 if they were common enough and if many of the decent parts didn't have to come in from Australia. Someday I may just go out looking for some 80s F150 for sale with the I6 in it.. take out the I6 and rebuild it, and stuff my 351 under the hood of the truck. Kill two birds with one stone. (I really could use a truck, but only if I ever got rid of one or two of these cars)
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind it if the 300 project ended up in my '89 Mark.. as much as I am liking the HO under the hood now.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: V8Demon on September 14, 2005, 04:10:42 PM
Quote
I really could use a truck, but only if I ever got rid of one or two of these cars)
If you really want I could come down there and one night, while you sleep, I could "get rid" of one or two of those cars :giggle:
I didn't realize you were still hot on the 300 inline six. I thought you had put it on the to do in 5 years list or something like that.
Title: Re: It's Just......Wrong!
Post by: Bird351 on September 14, 2005, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Paul Flockhart
If you really want I could come down there and one night, while you sleep, I could "get rid" of one or two of those cars :giggle:
I didn't realize you were still hot on the 300 inline six. I thought you had put it on the to do in 5 years list or something like that.
My house is NOT labelled "Midnight Auto Parts". :p
Yeah, I still want to do something around a 300. I'd like to try and pick up a 300 someday soon, even if it didn't go into a car for a long time.. but my 351 will soon be moved over to my house and I can't really spare the space to store two (maybe three, if I pulled the HO out of the '88 LSC) engines.
If my uncle didn't make such a stink over Fords, (much of it jokingly, at least) I'd give him my '88 T-bird and get his Dodge pickup off of him. Then that just leaves the problem of dealing with the '88 LSC.