Hello, I'm curious if the 1983 carbureted Tbird 3.8L mechanical fuel pump will interchange with later fuel injected 3.8L blocks.
If the last year for the carb was 83 and the first year for throttle body fuel injection was 84, I would not expect Ford to redesign the entire block just to eliminate the mechanical fuel pump. That said, it would only make sence to change the timing cover, or add a block off plate to delete the mechanical pump. I suspect the year the Tbird switched to serpintine belt there was likely a change in the block, or atleast the timing cover. Anyone know any details ?
Was the spot for the mechanical fuel pump in the block or the timing cover?
I'm not sure. I don't have an 83 with a mechanical pump, but I'm trying to building one.
I've already bought the distributor, dura spark and intake. Let me tell you, finding that intake is hard ! Even though you may find them listed at junk yards, I've contacted about 20 yards that had them listed as inventory, only to be told it was no longer available. All I need now is the block, but I'm not sure if I can use later models, or not.
I am not familiar enough with the 3.8 to know if it's similar to the Windsor motors that have it on the timing cover. I just double checked on 351 on the stand.
Looking through the '88 shop manual it appears there is a timing cover and Google searching '83 3.8 shows the fuel pump on the passenger side on the front but not sure if it is on the cover but would make sense.
I don't know who else to ask. I posted here and on foureyedpride. I'm pretty certain the later mustang blocks are different. Just not sure about when the Tbird/Cougars started changing.
Posting some pics from the 84 Shop Manual.
They still made the Carb version of the 3.8 V6 in 84 & 85 for sale in Canada.
The mechanical fuel pump and the distributor are in the timing chain cover (they call it the front cover).
The pump actuating eccentric is part of the cam shaft. Not a bolt on like the V8s.
Makes sense they would make a cover for the pump hole when they were making the same engine for the CFI version.
How long the actuating eccentric stayed on the cam shaft is another question. Note: Click pic corner arrow to make more readable.
On Rockauto, my '87 cam doesn't cross reference back to '83. Per Babpen 15s:
It sorta looks like the '87 cam has a pump eccentric on it...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184539147784?nma=true&si=sXGbqGUdBDK7LwkJrONdB0o%252FPts%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Here's an article that goes into various parts on the engine that changed over the years:
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2001/09/rebuilding-the-ford-3-8l-engine/
Don't suppose the cams for the 3.8 (up to '88, anyway) have the same Ford part #, do they?
(too lazy to look, well, more like not enough time LOL)
N/M, just read Jermey's post...d'oh. Carry on..
OK, now the info is starting to flow in. Here is my thead on foureyedpride:
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?192774-Will-99-04-3-8L-block-accept-82-83-Manual-fuel-pump-and-distributor
I missed the picture on the Babpen 15s article. Fuel pump eccentric on the cam went away in '88.
The answer to your FEP post is no. Won't work.
Was 87 the first year for serpentine belt 3.8L ?
No expert but google found this story on Grandma's 86 !
https://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;sa=tmpattach;attach=post_tmp_6239_81e671ab7b9b6e0c0b8912aee9cfa56b;topic=41447
'83 for these cars
Looks like, starting in1994 these engines no longer had a distributor.
https://mustangforums.com/how-tos/a/ford-mustang-v6-1994-2004-symptoms-of-coil-pack-failure-400423
From the '94 T-Bird shop Manual 3.8L V6:
RWD, Roller Cam, No Balance Shaft, Sequential Multiport Fuel Injection, Injectors in the Head above the Intake Valve,,
Removable distributor drive gear on front of the cam shaft, Part # 6255
Bolt/washer on end of cam shaft, Part # N806049-S2
84 Shop Manual 5.0 V8 camshaft.
Fuel pump eccentric part # 6287
softouch, foureyedpride.com member "xctasy" said something about the cam walking on the later roller cam motors (89-04 ?).
I'm not sure what he means there. You seem to suggest the 5.0L eccentric will swap over to the 3.8L, yes ?
Next, I'm still not certain what you all are talking about in reference to "balace shaft". I'm guessing some 3.8L are internally balanced and some are not ? My link on FEP.com mentions a weight on the shaft. I'm just not familiar with style balancer.
Last, from me buttstuffyzing all these comments, I think its safe to say that all 82-88 will drive the mechanical pump without any extensive modifications. All that needs to be done is cutting a hole in the timing cover on the 84-88 to fit the pump arm to the eccentric. Is everyone in agreement ?
I don't know what it means either.
don't know if it will work or not. Just threw it out as a possibility.
Some 3.8L engines have a balance shaft. They have a gear on the front of the cam shaft that drives the balance shaft. The shaft runs parallel to the cam shaft and rotates in the opposite direction. They seemed to be only used on FWD cars. If you are going to try to use one of the newer roller cam engines I recommend picking one from a RWD car.
Not the 88 make that 82-87. I would not be surprised if the pump hole is still in all of these 82-87 engines.
So I re-read what he was saying. The cam retainer is different on roller cams and thus if you modifiy the cam with an eccentric, it will want to walk. Then he said something about making sure the distributor gear being strong enough to handle back fire.
Next, I researched google about the balance shaft. If someone were to upgrade to a high lift cam that made vibrations, would the balance shaft also have to be modified ? That seems like a bunch of bull $#!T ...... the more I read, the more I like the old engines better. It seems the 99-04 Mustangs have balance shafts, as far as I can tell at this point. Not sure about the other years or models. I guess I'll be researching that next.
Balance shaft in '88, and then not again until '99. It's in the Babpen 15s article I linked.
So, with out going back and reading your previous post...89-98 are not balance shaft ? Sorry, to drunk to research at the moment. Thanks by the way !
EDIT: Also, if 89-98 are not balance shaft...can someone just delete the balance shaft ? So in other words, just delete it ? Making the block emulate an earlier block ?
RWD, Yes. None of them have balance shafts. The article I linked (I have no personal knowledge) says the unfinished balance shaft bores exist without oiling holes.
Maybe? However, I think you'd need to cap the oil passages for the balance shaft.
What exactly are you trying to do?
When I looked up 3.8L balance shaft on google, it shows 99-04 Mustangs 3.8L have balance shafts. Those are rear wheel drive cars.
What I'm trying to do is find out what takes to carburate late model 3.8 engines.
As best I can tell, to carburate a 99+ 3.8, you need an electric pump for fuel, an intake, and a distributor. The balance shafts are red herrings.
You can get an intake from SuperSixMotorsports (http://supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/2018/SSM2018CarburetedProducts.pdf) or Tom Morana (http://www.moranav6racing.com/category.html?CategoryID=2).
The 99+ 3.8s don't have a distributor, but still use a cam position sensor that uses the same spot as the distributor in older motors that sits in the timing cover.
(https://www.rockauto.com/info/22/FD33S_TOP_P04__ra_p.jpg)
The timing cover gasket interchanges between '94-'04, so I'd guess the interface between the timing cover and cam stayed the same. You may be able to use a carb'd distributor. You'd have to get your hands on a '99+ camshaft synchronizer to confirm the dimensions.
SuperSixMotorsports and Tom Morana both have EFI-to-Carb kits for the 3.8. I'd just ask them what the deal is and if you could use your own distributor if theirs is too expensive for your blood.