I read the Cool Cats article on this. I made a list of small parts I may need.....
Swapping the rear into a 5.0 car (88 Sport), can some of you give me a simple basic summary of the swap from your own experience? Looking for tips and hints. Thanks
When I did my swap I used Lincoln Mark VII rear cables with the stock T-Bird front cable. Much, much easier than using Turbo Coupe stuff
Thanks Chicken. I'm getting everything from the Turbo Coupe, cables, spindles, rear, everything. Taking in all the tips I can on installing this equipment on the Bird.
here is our recent 5lug swap all the way around....
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?39635-5-lug-converstion-complete
lots of good info in there
Vinnie,
Are you staying four lug? For some reason I am betting you are which will narrow the info you get here.
Yes Sir, staying with 4 lug. I can't justify going to 5 lug since I like my wheels. I appreciate the post.
Are the hard brake lines on the TC 8.8 routed like the Fox Mustang 8.8? The Fox Mustang 8.8 left and right hard lines go to a fitting just above the pinion and then a flex line goes from this fitting over to the hard line on the body of the car. My T-Bird had the fitting over on the passenger axle tube and the soft line that went to the hard line on the body was integrated into the fitting on the axle tube. I changed mine over to the fitting over the pinion as it aided in the dual exhaust as well as allowed the use of the SS braided line from the body hard line over to the axle.
So this is what I basically used but I got mine with the 8.8 out of the donor Mustang.
https://lmr.com/item/JM-22515R/Mustang-V8-J-M-Rear-Stainless-Steel-Teflon-Brake-Hose?year=1989&gclid=CJHszLKWvdACFdgKgQodhXgD6g
I just made a line to go from the body hard line over to this fitting and it worked really well.
You know, another option could be to use the TC axles, SN95 brakes, and redrill the SN95 rotors to 4 lug. Honestly, I'm not sure if it would work, but it could be a idea for if our source for rear rotors and calipers dry up.
Hell, maybe could do something similar up front. SN95 spindles, weld the wheel stud holes in the hubs and have them redrilled 4 lug, and drill the rotors for 4 lug. Could open up the option for 4 lug cobra brakes.
Don't mind me, just brain storming.
Just a FYI:
87-88 Turbo Coupe 8.8, 88 XR7 8.8, 87-88 Thunderbird/Cougar 7.5, and 93 Cobra 8.8 rear axle housings use the same length axle shafts.
86-93 5.0 Mustang 8.8 rear axle housings are the same width as the housing used in 87-88 Turbo Coupes and 93 Cobras. The disc brake backing plates make the disc brake rear wider.
88 XR7 rear axle housings are the same width as 87-88 Thunderbird/Cougar axle housings as they have drum brakes. They are the only 8.8 axle housing the same width as the 87-88 Thunderbird/Cougar 7.5.
So what this means Vinnie is you should be able to bolt the Turbo Coupe backing plates to the 86-93 Mustang housing in your car, install the Turbo Coupe axle shafts, install the Turbo Coupe brakes, and enjoy. That way you don't have to drop the housing out of the car.
I did it the easy way and just swapped an 88 XR7 drum brake 8.8 into my Thunderbird ;)
Not discounting what is said above but to clarify I would say that due to the geometry of the disc brake package the 87-88 TC and 93 Mustang Cobra rears require longer axles to accommodate for the disc brake package. This also happens to be the same length axle as the SN95 V6/GT axle from 94-98 however these are five lug axles.
I'm swapping the whole rear, housing, axles, disc brakes and all. Also, the front spindles, calipers, and so on, then new struts. I have a friend in Texas stripping a Turbo Coupe and I'm getting all of the suspension parts and brake cables and proportioning valve.
I currently have an 8.8 with 3.55's. Going to 3.73's. Hope I like them.
I have no desire at this time to go 5 lug. My wheels are still like new, tires are great. No need for it. Mainly looking for the hints of simply swapping those parts into the car from those here who have done it.
Aerocoupe....how did you modify the hard line from the body to accept a different fitting for a different flex line?
Vinnie,
The parts will go in just like the old stuff coming out. I am assuming you are going to disassemble the rear and detail it? If so may I suggest that you replace the axle bearings and axle seals. Also, pull the limited slip and rebuild that while you have it out of the car. Several videos on how to do this on YouTube and worth the money 10x when doing out from under the car. I would also replace the UCA bushings on the rear end.
I have had 3.73's in my Coupe for 15 years and every once in a while I wish I had 3.55's but it's always on the highway.
Body brake line to rear end. If the TC rear is like the Mustang 8.8 the two hard lines on the rear end will meet at a fitting just over the top of the pinion. My Bird was a 7.5 rear so it had the fitting on the passenger axle tube that also had the flex line molded to it. When I swapped over to the 8.8 out of the Mustang I utilized the Mustang fitting over the pinion. This required extending the body hard line over to the new fitting with a brake line union and a new piece of brake line. You will need to be able to make a double flare but the tool is realitively cheap at Sears or a parts store may have on as a loaner tool. The fitting over the pinion has a bracket the you pop rivit to the body of the car right over the pinion. Lots of images of this online for the Fox Mustangs.
The brake line mod was probably the hardest part of the whole deal. Hope that helps.
Yes, I am going to clean it up and detail it a bit. I have planned on new bearings and seals, too. I was going to install my traction lock from my current rear, as it is brand new (maybe 1000 miles on it at this point), and install my differential girdle. Had also thought about poly bushings, but undecided at this time. My tubular controls have the poly bushings.
The flex line on my Bird is located to the line on the body where you described. My flex line clips to the bracket, then the hard line screws into the flex line, then, the flex line screws into the junction block mounted on the side of the pumpkin where the hardlines to the wheels mount. That's the setup my car currently has.I swapped the Master Cylinder last Sunday. It was for the 5.0 Bird, basically a stock style replacement. Unsure if I'll need to swap it for the disc rear and bigger front brakes. I have heard it both ways. Some say it'll work, others say swap it. I do know I'll be swapping the proportioning valve with the one from the Turbo Coupe.
Had planned on drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic style pads. Still educating myself. I'm also planning to use poly bushings in the front control arms alomg with new ball joints. Control arms are from the TC as well. Same as mine that I have. I'm reading on the pros and cons of poly bushings.
I want to rebuild the assemblies in the garage, so when the time comes to install the parts, they are ready to go. I also understand I'll need adapter fitting for my front metal brake lines to adapt the TC flex lines to them.
I notice the Turbo Coupe proportioning valve looks the same as the one on my 5.0 except for the sensor on the front. On my car, do I just simply ignore it? Remove it?
1) Going from 10" brakes up front to 11" brakes up front will only require different soft lines. The adapters are needed when going to SN95 style calipers and typically it is only the passenger side one. They now make SS braided lines for the Fox to SN95 conversion so you don't need the adapters.
2) I went with poly up front and tore them back out a week later and installed rubber again, way too harsh on a stock suspension geometry car for me.
3) Drilled, slotted, or drilled and slotted rotors are a waste of money on a daily driver IMO. I've had them and will not again as I do not feel there wasn't any performance gain over solid surface vented rotors.
4) Just gut the stock proportioning valve and put a manual proportioning valve inline on the rear feed. Simpler, works better, and you can tune the brakes.
5) Get good pads.
6) Update us on the progress and remember we like pics!!!
^ What he said. ;)
Vinnie, this page might help with some of your questions, since it's essentially what you're doing:
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/tcaxle.html
It's not updated it with the Mark VII e-brake cable information yet; otherwise the page is all current.
I have cross drilled front rotors on the convertible and have noticed exactly nothing in the 'advantage' department. What I have heard is that any cryogenically-frozen components are supposed to last a lot longer (up to 20-30%). But that wasn't available when I did the conversion in 2002.
I just saw these two last replies. I have the parts in the garage (complete front suspension, complete rear).
I have heard of gutting the proportioning valve but never seen it done, as well as mating up an adjustable to it. I have luckily never needed to do much of any brake work other that swapping brakes or rotors. Easy stuff.
So, as far as the master cylinder, you believe the stock one is fine (it is new) or should i swap it to a '93 Cobra style MC? I hear conflicting stories. I do plan on swapping my stock, nearly 30 year old booster out for a new smaller Fox Mustang GT style booster. I figured I could use a clutch cable adjuster that way. Any opinions on that. I'm open to all opinions.
Apparently Dom included the parking brake cables from the pedal to the rear, still connected. The only parts not in place are the front calipers.
Do the rear calipers squeeze together like the front or need the tool that turns them in?
I plan on new shocks and struts, new ball joints, and the best pads I can get and the stainless hoses (one piece at a time until I have it all, then install it all at once.). I was also thinking about going to poly bushings and a solid steering shaft. I'll also be replacing the steering rack and tie rod ends since they are under warranty.
I had swapped the steering shaft's rubber disc, but I think it still sucks.
Run the 93 Cobra MC and booster. Gutting the proportioning valve is stupid easy as there are several write ups and I have posted a figure on how to do this so I'll try to dig that thread up for you. Maximum Motorsports has all the stuff you need but I just look at what they have and buy most of it at the parts store or online cheaper. The only things I get from them is the 3-2 kit and the solid plug for the combination valve. Depending on if your car has SAE or metric threads will depend on if you use these parts:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/1-1993-Cobra-master-cyl-C528.aspx
Or these parts:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/1-1993-Cobra-master-cyl-C537.aspx
I'm not saying that your stock MC and a stock 5.0 Fox Mustang booster would not work but they were not designed for these braking components like the 93 Cobra MC and booster are. The other advantage is that you can move up to Cobra size brakes with that MC and booster combo. You can get the Cobra MC and booster off of Rock Auto for a decent price.
The rear calipers need the tool to twist them but you can get it at most parts stores. Watch the Flaming River type steering shafts as they have set screws that foul on the exhaust.
Does the Cobra Master Cylinder have the line on the bottom like my stock one? Some I have seen in pics I can't tell, but it seems they would have to. Mine has two on the inner side, one line on the bottom.
That's a short and effective list that you gave me. I've got it bookmarked now.
OK....it appears that there are two ports, and the fitting I would need allows a person to tap into that for the second line necessary on the MC. Is that correct? I have a lot of studying to do.
No sir. That is why you need the 3-2 conversion kit.
Thanks a lot.
X2 on the poly bushings...I put 'em on the Sport when I started getting into it....and the times I drove it, it was rough as a 1 ton truck....unless it's a 75% of the time track car, I wouldn't advise it, especially as you drive yours a lot and sometimes on long cruises...
It also seemed to transmit more noise into the car, though the steering and handling tightened way the hell up.
Maybe there's a company that has stuff that's a little less mushy than rubber but not as stiff as poly..???
I also had the poly stuff in all the rear areas too, and it took very little to get the rear to kick out...