General => Other Vehicles => Topic started by: FOX-XR7 on August 06, 2015, 05:22:56 PM
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 06, 2015, 05:22:56 PM
So my father in law has a 95 F150 beater truck with a 302 in it. It's a standard cab long bed, 4 wheel drive automatic. 272K on the clock. Purchased off eBay some 5 years ago, it's run fine ever since. So, 2 years ago, it blew a trans line and leaked all the fluid out. Got it towed home, figured, with that many miles we'd rebuild it. So we pulled the trans. E4OD I believe it is. We rebuilt it over last fall, then we figured we'd pull the engine and freshen it up too. So we did over last winter. Just honed cylinders, gave it new rings and bearings, and valve springs and timing chain. Threw it back together, then rebuilt the rear end with new bearings, and seals. Got everything hooked back up and fired it up. Set timing and took on a test drive. No power at all. Checked many different things. Fuel pressure, good. 38-40 lbs at idle. Fuel filter, changed. Spark plugs, all new, no misfiring. Compression test, 120 lbs in all 8 cylinders. Thought it was a little low, but it is the same through all 8. Then we checked vacuum....5-8 inches at idle. Booo. Horrible right? I'm thinking between 17-21 inches? So we've been searching for leaks. Can't seem to find any leaks. Even pulled the heads off, and intake, checked all gaskets, through new ones on after making sure timing chain is aligned. Threw it all back together and it didn't change a think. Well, it did, now idle vacuum is at 8-9 inches. Sooo I'm lost. Super frustrated. Can't figure this out. Just absolutely no power at all. Has trouble taking minor hills on the road. Won't even spin tires in the wet grass! Why has it got no power or vacuum? Am I forgetting something major? Need help or suggestions or advice from anyone please. Positive or negative at this point. Just very frustrated. Thanks in advance.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: CoogarXR on August 06, 2015, 07:02:44 PM
This is a dumb suggestion, but is the intake tube to the MAF connected good and tight? I know after working on speed density 5.0s like ours, you forget that on a MAF engine it's required. I know when I bought my XR-7 I screwed around forever trying to get it to run before I noticed that the air tube was off at the bottom of the clamp.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 06, 2015, 07:11:11 PM
Yeah, it's connected. No stupid suggestion man, at this point I could have forgotten something obvious. So any question or tip is appreciated. Haha. Yeah i checked. Made sure today when I was tinkering on it. I hopped in, threw it in reverse and tromped the gas, and it take prolly 3 or 4 seconds to Rev up and then another 2 or 3 to start moving. It's like in park/neutral it's slow to rev, then in gear, it takes forever to get moving. It accelerates like a slug on the run. Sooo I'm still lost. Haha
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Haystack on August 06, 2015, 09:20:09 PM
Sounds like the timing is way off
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 06, 2015, 09:41:52 PM
But we lined up the timing marks on the crank and cam. Factory crank and cam still. Could it still be off?
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: thewestie on August 06, 2015, 10:01:28 PM
I was always taught dot to dot was leaving power behind. I don't know how to degree a cam but have seen the difference it can make.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 06, 2015, 10:37:53 PM
I thought of that, but then figured it ran just fine before tear down. That was with dot to dot. And now it's gutless. I just don't understand what could be causing the major vacuum drop. I didn't think degreeing was necessary until you throw in an aftermarket cam.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: kylesburrell on August 06, 2015, 11:12:30 PM
Maybe check EGR valve? or TPS sensor? Could also try spraying brake clean around the wherever the manifold meets the heads/TB and listen for increases in engine rpm
-Kyle
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Haystack on August 07, 2015, 12:16:47 AM
Dot to dot is how its done at the factory. Low vacuum will make the car run bad and rich, but shouldn't give up any power. Vacuum is a measurement of restriction. The less restriction you have, the more power you will have, for the most part.
For us 5.0 people, pull your map hose off. It will run like shiznit and shoot black smoke and stain the ground, but, under wot, it will run exactly as its supposed to. At wot throttle, you should have next to no vacuum. Most any vacuum leak will not effect wot performance. It's just like having that much more airflow.
120lbs of compression for a re ringed engine is still way low. But since all 8 were the same, it should be okay. My first 86 had 290k miles on it and still had around 100psi. Worth of compression.
What did you set your distributor timing to, and what codes does it pull? I also believe that the newer efi trucks were maf weren't they?
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: bodyman on August 07, 2015, 12:25:30 AM
Where did you set the timing? Maybe set the timing by vacuum or ear.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 07, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: kylesburrell;450398
Maybe check EGR valve? or TPS sensor? Could also try spraying brake clean around the wherever the manifold meets the heads/TB and listen for increases in engine rpm
-Kyle
We ended up blocking off the egr to see if that fixed it. But it didn't change a thing. Didn't fuss with the tps yet. Could that be why vacuum is low? We did spray the heck out of it while idling with brake cleaner, but there was little to no change in rpms. No obvious difference.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 07, 2015, 03:05:05 PM
Quote from: Haystack;450400
Dot to dot is how its done at the factory. Low vacuum will make the car run bad and rich, but shouldn't give up any power. Vacuum is a measurement of restriction. The less restriction you have, the more power you will have, for the most part.
For us 5.0 people, pull your map hose off. It will run like shiznit and shoot black smoke and stain the ground, but, under wot, it will run exactly as its supposed to. At wot throttle, you should have next to no vacuum. Most any vacuum leak will not effect wot performance. It's just like having that much more airflow.
120lbs of compression for a re ringed engine is still way low. But since all 8 were the same, it should be okay. My first 86 had 290k miles on it and still had around 100psi. Worth of compression.
What did you set your distributor timing to, and what codes does it pull? I also believe that the newer efi trucks were maf weren't they?
I'm not sure if it has a map sensor. It's a mass air, so would it have air bap? Not sure where it is. I'll have to check. I pulled the spout, and set to 10 degrees BTDC. Figured that was close. Lol
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 07, 2015, 03:05:48 PM
We're gonna pull the codes again soon. When I get back over there. Then I'll post findings
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 07, 2015, 03:23:30 PM
No MAP on mass air, the baro ain't gonna care...(be sure there is no vac connected to port)
Are you using the correct firing order??? Trucks went to the HO order with the switch to mass air...
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Haystack on August 07, 2015, 03:59:43 PM
That could easily be the whole issue.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 07, 2015, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;450410
No MAP on mass air, the baro ain't gonna care...(be sure there is no vac connected to port)
Are you using the correct firing order??? Trucks went to the HO order with the switch to mass air...
But wouldn't it not want to run at all with wrong firing order? Just because it idles fine. At like 850 or so. Seems like healthy idle. But firing order being off could be the same symptoms? I'll check.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Haystack on August 07, 2015, 07:52:16 PM
I've ran my car with 4 spark plugs off and more then 180* of timing off.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: CoogarXR on August 07, 2015, 11:22:12 PM
When you dropped the exhaust I wonder if the catalytic innards came loose and are restricting the exhaust. I had an astro van with a bad cat and it sounded perfect at idle but wouldn't spin the wheels, climb a hill, nothing.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Loaded87IROC on August 07, 2015, 11:53:08 PM
I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination and I know more about the 2.3 than the 5.0 but I think if it were my vehicle, I would recheck the ignition and cam timing. The low vacuum, no power, and low compression numbers across all the cylinders make me think the cam events aren't taking place when they should.
Again, I'm not an expert. It is just what I would double check if my vehicle had these symptoms.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Haystack on August 08, 2015, 12:13:07 AM
The distributor could easily just be 180 off.
I agree that 130psi seems low, but as long as its the same accrossed all cylinders, the cam must be right or close, and it was installed dot to dot.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 08, 2015, 12:55:38 AM
Quote from: CoogarXR;450426
When you dropped the exhaust I wonder if the catalytic innards came loose and are restricting the exhaust. I had an astro van with a bad cat and it sounded perfect at idle but wouldn't spin the wheels, climb a hill, nothing.
Srry, forgot to mention it's a brand new system from advance complete with brand new cat. Even opened it up after y pile and had same issues.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 08, 2015, 12:57:04 AM
Quote from: Loaded87IROC;450427
I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination and I know more about the 2.3 than the 5.0 but I think if it were my vehicle, I would recheck the ignition and cam timing. The low vacuum, no power, and low compression numbers across all the cylinders make me think the cam events aren't taking place when they should.
Again, I'm not an expert. It is just what I would double check if my vehicle had these symptoms.
This is a good idea. We ended up tearing the heads intake and timing cover off a second time to make sure nothing is outta whack. But all seems timed properly.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 08, 2015, 12:58:01 AM
Quote from: Haystack;450428
The distributor could easily just be 180 off.
I agree that 130psi seems low, but as long as its the same accrossed all cylinders, the cam must be right or close, and it was installed dot to dot.
Tomorrow I'll check the distributor timing and the firing order as well.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: bodyman on August 08, 2015, 11:22:28 AM
Make sure when #1 is at TDC that the balancer reads 0 degrees. It's possible the balancer slipped and you are not at the distributor timing you think you are.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: FOX-XR7 on August 09, 2015, 02:55:16 PM
Checked the firing order and timing for distributor. All is good to go. Balancer checks out too. Pulled codes. Got 111 then in the memory got a 122 and 332. Figured 122 is cuz we were messing with the tps unplugged key on. Egr is still blocked off so that's prolly the 332. Cleared the codes. And tps went away. Just 332 and 111 now. Gonna pick up a leak down test and test all 8 cylinders. More to come.
Title: Familyso's beater truck issues...
Post by: Lightningbird on August 15, 2015, 12:28:16 AM
Did you have the heads re done? If so, could the valves be hanging open? I am wondering if the push rods are a bit too long now? Was the block decked and the heads milled not allowing the valves to completely close? Your vacuum is definitely low and your compression test seems low. What machine work was completed and please verify the rockers are allowing the valves to completely close, back a rocker or 2 off when the lifter is on the base circle of the cam and see if the spring moves. It should be completely closed on the base circle and a bit of preload should be on the lifter.