I may be in over my head on this swap but.... Being me ive decided to do it anyway lol. About 3 months ago i picked up a D1VE 460 engine with about 80k miles and c6 trans for $250. The idea for this project is just to get it in and running for now and build it up later.
(The ole 2.3)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/001.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/003.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/002.jpg)
In some ways im gonna miss the lil bugger. :(
This will also take a bit of time but i will update as things come together. :)
Got the 2.3 out. now i get to take care of my rust problem before the 7.5 goes in.
Empty engine bay. :)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/005.jpg)
Nasty rust :(
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/006.jpg)
More rust :(
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/007.jpg)
I plan to clean up the engine bay fix the rust, fill in the un-needed holes and paint it soon. (crosses fingers) i hope this goes well lol.
Heres a few pics i took of the 7.5 on its way home :)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/0303122128.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/0303122128a.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/0304121636.jpg)
Yeah its a lil dirty but it will be cleaned up a bit :)
Well you are going to catch hell from some of the 2.3 guys, but I wish you luck on your swap. There is no replacement for displacement, but turbo motors are pretty darn cool too. Hey I have an idea, you should turbo that 460 so it can still be considered a turbo coupe!
I dropped a v8 (302) in my tc as well. Motor mounts and headers will be your main issues.
GL and keep us posted
I think a lot of the draw behind a 460 is a lack of "good" efi intakes that could fit under the hood. Its your car, do what you want with it. Just watch out for gas prices.
As kentioned, your going to have to make your own motor mounts, or swap k-members.
Good luck.
I actually have a DOVE 460 I have been wanting to shove into one of my TC's. I don't think the mpg would be awful if you geared it high enough to make up for the lack of OD, that beast easily creates enough torque to handle a pretty high gear. Look forward to see what you do for exhaust, keep us updated! :P
Tell that to my dads fuel injected 460 van, with overdrive. It generally hits right at 6mpg. You might be able to hit 10mpg if you keep it running good enough.
You can't compare the newer FI 460 to that beast he has here.
I think you're bang out of your MIND. I like it. More pics.
my 500whp 545 used to get 8mpg but so far this year, i've seen about 6 1/2mpg, lol. Thats in a 5200# truck with a manual trans and a 1050cfm carb. I have really thought about yanking that engine out and putting it in one of my other birds to see if I could knock out 9's on motor or not. If it doesn't, its got a 200 shot on it too:)
meh, gas mileage is over rated. Bring on the big block!
There are Fox 460 swap kits.....no need to break out the welding helmet to make your mounts.
But, you WILL need to change to a Stang or pre-'86 Tbird K member. If I was going to go this route, I'd use a '94-'95 Stang k member so I could use the stock Tbird control arms, or even the '03 Cobra control arms.
i found an 88 stang k member im going to pick up in a day or 2 for $30 so i think ill use FMS mounts and oil pan and hooker headers :)
whats the diffrence between the 79-93 mustang k member and the 94-95 stang k member?
What are your plans for the 2.3? Is that a Holset on there that might be for sale?
the SN95 K is a little narrower, so it uses longer control arms (as do our '86-'88 Tbirds and Cougars) which in turn have a little better suspension geometry, and turning radius. Now, you can get '03+ Cobra front control arms that will take this one step further...
Basically, you can use the Fox stang K member, but you also have to use the control arms hat go with it, and the same thing for the '94+ k members as well.
Our cars ('86 to '88, that is) are closer to SN95 Stang suspensions than Fox Stangs, with the glaring lack of 5 lug bolt pattern.
You have to keep the proper control arm length in regards to k member, unless you want some funky camber lol
I can't say for sure though if the engine mounts themselves are identical between Fox and SN95 Stangs...
engine trans and harness with the computer has been sold to help fund the swap sorry :(
as far as the k member diffrence i was more worried about the motor mount spots than anything else also if the k member would bolt right up to the car without much drilling and grinding.
if the sn95 k member will work with FMS mounts and oilpan ill go with that one. anyone know for sure?
Your right, with about the same sized valves, and same displacement, I'm way out of line by comparing two nearly identicle motors, minus heads.
In my experiance, a big block with a carb will get WORSE mileage then a fuel injected, gentle driven one with an over drive trans. With the weight of the car, possibly high gearing, and od, you might be able to get skightly better then 6mpg if you keep your foot out of it, but who throws a carbed 460 in for gas mileage?
Having driven somewhere in the neighborhoon of 10 460's, but fuelie and carbed trucks, there isn't enough differance between them to justifly labeling them different. the fuelie has slightly more torque, and gets almost identicle gas mileage. What we used to say at work is you get 6 mpg if your towing something or not, so you might as well tow. Dropping down the gearing some to say a 3.27 or 2.73 gear might help you get near 10mpg if you forget about your right foot, but a blip of throttle will ruin that.
Throwing a carbed 460 was always going to be my way around a h.o. swap, but after seeing them side by side, I can get close to 30mpg with my tbird consistantly, and probably never even half that with a 460. With the soup up parts available for the 302, you can be in block splitting territory, and still get liveable gas mileage. I think that's the reason behing the 418, 427 and bigger small block stroke kits. Big block power in a small block.
Nothing wrong with a big engine in a realatively small/light car either though.
as of now my rear has 3.55s so my MPG should be right around the "LOL" mark.... maybe as far as "LMFAO" :)
Just a point of clarification: 83-86 share the same front suspension geometry (control arms, etc). 86 has an odd ball (or hybrid k-member), in that it has the oil filled motor mounts of the 87/88, but the early suspension design..
ide love a set of D0VE heads while i wait for the cash for a set of kaase boss nine heads to fall into my lap so if you ever decide to sell them let me know :)
Yea I felt pretty lucky when I found it! You can still find them, it just takes some looking.
We run several 79 Crew Cab F350s with the DOVE 460 in it, those engines do an amazing job of getting the power to the ground.
Edit: I look forward to your build it should be epic and unless you are planning just using it for strip I would keep your eye out for something like a 3:00 or 3:20 gear, something just a little faster than the 3:50' I personally think it would be awesome! :D
its gonna be a daily driver lol i live in a somewhat small town without much reason to make long trips so i figure why not :)
Makes perfect sense to me! :D I love by turbo 4, but there is nothing like a strong running big block!
well money is comming in a bit slower than i expected so everything is going a slower than i had wanted... but i did get the k member out of the car the other day and started looking at the rust.... its ALOT worse than i had expected but still rebuildable. ill be posting more pics soon sorry for the long wait.
K member is out and the car is on blocks (i hate seeing my baby this way but its for a good cause) lol
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/017.jpg)
That hood looks familiar, have you posted it on here before?
yeah ive been here for a while .... joined shortly after i got the car in dec of 07. i posted a pic of it on page 19 of the "what does you're fox look like today" thread
these were the bolts holding my old K-member in.... scary....lol
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/008.jpg)
shannun,
when ur done with the build are u planing to take it to the drag strip in southwebster.
i may run it in xenia at kilkare, southwebster is only an 8th mile track... but who knows... if my friends invite me to a track with them im going no matter what one lol
I'm surprised those bolts came out without snapping.
they werent easy to get out... the holes were raning out rust when i was turning them i had hand fulls ... and the whole time im thinking "#@!%@&%$&# im gonna have to rebuild these frame rails... (sad face)" i should have more pics up soon tho sorry its taking so long.
Check out my thread in the user rides section. My strut towers looked like yours. I ended up having to rebuild the entire lower section of the subframer and strut tower.
If I coulda found a 4 speed for my big block there wouldnt be a 302 in my car. Good luck on the swap
You can build it better and stronger than stock. The time is now. We have the technology!
:evilgrin::burnout:
well my swap pan and HV oil pump came in today :) found it on ebay for $85 + shipping so i couldnt pass up that deal now im waiting on my headers they should be here the first of the month.
after they get here i can start with the motor mount fab work :) yay!
Shannum:
Have you removed the TC master cylinder/ABS system from the firewall yet ?
If not, then there's no way the 460 valve cover will clear the factory MC.
I know... I spent 2 weeks trying to figure out how to on my '87 maroon 460 TC. I even tried 1.5 spacers between the k-frame and the cover still hit.
I know it's a little late, but here are some pics of my custom solid engine mounts to fit the factory TC k-member when I had the old rusty fitting engine in it:
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/RightsideTC460mount.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/LeftsideTC460mount.jpg)
460 clears the stock hood:
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/TCenginesilver1jpg.jpg)
yeah i got that out of there and i have one from a non ABS mustang that should fit.
yea i heard xenia's track is better but sw is closer to me.lol what did u do with the mc and the rest of the abs stuff ??
well the ABS computer is still in the car and the wheel magnets are in the back seat at the moment... as for the MC i think its bad but im not totaly sure ...the thing had hard pedal when i hit the brakes. and xenia is totaly worth the drive :)
I got the front end down to the bare bones.... bout time... hopefuly going to start the cutting this weekend.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/015.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/014.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/016.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/017-1.jpg)
yep looks really familiar to me. After you get the cut out shove a nice peice of 3x2 box tube in the framerails and weld the tar out of it.
my swap headers from Hooker came in today now all i gotta do is get the steel for the repair together and tranny cross member then i can start putting her back together. :) (getting excited) i miss my baby.
Those Hooker headers might need some tweeking on the # 7 Tube.
That is a common problem and as far as I know Hooker still has not fixed the problem.
The steering shaft hits that tube.
I bought my Hooker headers from a local guy who had the #7 tube reworked already and it looks nice.
I am also going to extend my steering shaft and that will move the upper u-joint back closer to the firewall so I can set my 460 back all the way to the firewall. (to run the 17" mechanical fan)
can you post a pic of the re-worked header please? and thanks for the heads up :)
by the way i started cutting the old rust spots out still have lots of work to go but its comming along... ill post pics soon on the progress
Also big thanks to cougarman for selling me the crossmember i needed for the transmission :)
You're welcome. glad I could help.
I'll have to dig the headers out and get some shots.
When I do I will post them up.
my spiffy new hooker headers :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/018-1.jpg)
and my spiffy used fox 460 swap oilpan and high volume oil pump i got off of ebay for $85 :)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/20.jpg)
pics of the rust repair still to come! lol
You know, it's not every day on this forum that we see a member post a pair of hookers laying on his bed...
:laughing: lmao never thought of it that way :laughing:
Sorry its taken so long to update this thread but i started to mock everything up to make my engine mounts :D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0461.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0460.jpg)
in the next week or so i should have the mounts totaly finished (free time is an issue) and the block and heads will be sent off for work shortly after that
awesome man, keep at it!
sorry this is taking so long but time and money have been an issue as always but.... i gave up on making my own mounts and got myself the hooker swap mounts
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0474.jpg)
i also got the intake that will be going on my little monster :)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0476.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0477.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ShannunP/IMG_0478.jpg)
hopefuly things start moving a little faster with this build ... i miss my baby :(
X2!!!
X 3 !
You will LOVE that intake. I had a weind stealth before I went to that manifold on my 545. Stealth had a 800cfm double pumper on it, but I put a 1050 QFT double pumper when I changed manifolds, but gained over 50hp just because it moved the torque from down low to higher end. Low end torque only dropped by about 10ft/lbs anyway.
i was told its one of the best single plane intakes you can get and it looks pretty so i got it lol now i need to find a carb for it ... i was looking at a few used 1050s but i may just buy that new as well
lookin good so far shannun.
Subscribed.
I've got mounts now, still looking for a good block, pan, and headers. Good stuff here, thanks fellas :)
you can buy a D1VE block from a guy that sells them on http://www.460ford.com/forum/ in the "Auction Block" section or you can always look around on Craigslist thats where i found mine. as far as the pan you should keep an eye on ebay ... the mounts (if its going into a tbird) youll eaither need to swap k members or make your own mounts for the 86-88 tbird if its older the mustang swap mounts will work from ford or hooker
that intake looks to be ready for injectors but the casting is at the wrong angle.
Yeah, I should have mentioned that my '90 Stang is my eventual 460 swap vehicle...I'm done with the Tbird mods, unless I can locate a complete Lightning 351w...
There was a really rough L on my local craigslist awhile back, 2500 bucks for the truck..yeah, it was that bad. :(
i think those injector ports are for nos and not fuel injection. not 100% sure tho.
i cant even imagine what it would be like to drive a car with that much motor just chillin up front.... but i still want to do it haha
me too but im going to find out.... i just wish work would pick up so i can afford some go fast parts to put it together... :(