Well haven't had my cougar in my possession for a couple months now. Sent her away for black paint treatment, now she is getting a turbo coupe 8.8 rear with 3.73 posi and disc brakes, then stereo, and then the motor.... I have a full on3performance turbo kit for the 302, but the ring of a 427 Windsor based small block is sounding better and better to me. My engine guy keeps insisting to ditch the hairdryer and go with cubes so I can still run cheap gas. Is anyone running a fuel injected Windsor based engine in their fox?
Or should I just go with original plan 331 with turbo kit??
Unless you have a uber block 302 based setup....the 331 stroker will die a quick death with a turbo. Sense you already have the on3 302 kit. Just use a stock engine. Tune it for 450rwhp and hope it keeps alive. Or save more money to get an uber block and use you on3 turbo kit and really lean on her.
Travis
P.S. Currently swapping 351 with On3 turbo kit....
P.S.S If you are worried about the cost of premium on a Hi-Po engine....wrong hobby.
Or another option is to contact on3 and get the 351 hotside. Then you can do whatever 351+ setup you want.
Good luck,
Travis
Ok TurboTrav curiousity has gotten the better of me. I got a non HO 5.0 equipped with factory forged pistons (worst than cast) in the cougar just as it came from the factory, we will see how long lasts....I am curious what makes you think 331s are no good?
he's not knocking the 331, he's talking about the block itself.. 302 blocks are pr0ne to (literally) splitting in half above 450hp.. 351w's are good for 700-750 before dying the same inevitable death, so they're a better platform to start building on..
but if it were me, i'd definitely go 351 stroker.. but i wouldn't run it NA, that's for sure (which is obvious with my capri and blue bird lol).. i'd either contact on3 to see if you can make a partial exchange for a 351 hotside or mod your 302 setup to work (which probably isn't much, depending on how they set their kits up).. but that's just me, the turbo windsor fanatic lol
That's why I thought your supposed to use girdles:) I am not shooting for the moon, I just want a vehicle that run on cheap fuel. The 351 has a taller deck so the hot piping would be taller and maybe some of intercooler piping longer. Of course, now I have the wrong injectors, computer, intake, etc....
I built a 408w and just in the shortblock I have just about $6,000 into it.. so it does cost more with the machine shop to balance and clearance everything. Check with your machine shop first before you decide to go 427. My guy was fine doing the 408 but he really didn't want to do a 427, he said if 427 is what I wanted thats fine he would do it but it would be a pain in the ass for him and cost extra in clearancing the block.
I would go with the 351w block for whatever you do, that way your combo has room to grow and is solid.
girdles don't keep the block from splitting.. there's too much hype about the girdles that's false..
You'd be better off running a Boss block ($1300) than running girdles. Machining for stroker clearance, main caps, and price of girdles (main and valley if you do it right) would put you over the price of the Boss block, plus you can get 363" out of a Boss block.
Why bother with a boss block when you can get a dart block for $1600 that is already 363 to begin with? They are nice pieces I got 1 in my drag car although the head gaskets were the most expensive ones I ever bought... Another thing about the 408 is that it is a square motor so you run more rpm than longer stroker kits.
Shadow,
Girdles do help keep your crank from walking, but I agree they do not make a block stronger that comment was more of a joke than anything:)
ah, so you know you're stuff pretty well than.. good stuff good stuff lol
The last time I delt with a dart block they where standard bore just like the boss block and needed to be bored .125 to get 363". I know my stuff too. ;) Why spend more for a dart block when the boss is just as strong?
I think maybe they changed them, because my Dart block is 4.125 bore outta the box making 363 from scratch with the possibility of 380+ cubic inches. Also siamesed bores (no water jackets between cylinders). It is a big block 302 so to speak, and this block is beautiful, I could not find any imperfections. I really regret not going with the windsor based Dart block for more cubes. The Dart block also oils differently that a conventional 302, but I forget how, I think maybe it oils the mains first or something like that?? I do not know much engines, but I have been seeing the insides of them quite a bit lately:(
And I have been blowing up turbo cars for years
96 Talon (blew up)
95 Stealth (transission, clutch 3 times, now rear facing turbo manifold)
87 Grand national (Broke the frame)
89 Turbo T/A (Hole in a piston from detonation 2 times)
98 Dodge cummins 24valve (80 psi on stock top end, cracked head)
91 Nissan Skyline Running :) (mid 12 quarter)
That is why I want lumpy N/A engine because I never had one!
Go 445" with the dart block, leave the accidental bad casted cylinder height of the china boss block where it sits. You csn't even get enough stroke out of the boss block to get more cubes out of it then a regular 302. 363" strokers are common with stock 302's. Why not gomuch bigger for the same ballpark? You also do not really need to worry about more cubes affecting the longevity of the engine after 408", especially if you stay with the 4.125 bore. A smaller engine will need to rev higher to make the same power as a smaller motor. If your going n/a, get it as big as you can, reasonably.
Which heads to feed thing engine, and you are going to go aftermarket block then? A 351 that isn't revved to the moon will last for quite a bit higher then a 302. Especially in a lighter car. Supposedly near 800hp, vs the 500hp of a 302. You would need to be making some serious steam to beat that block n/a.
Just throwing this out there, but all the ones I seen split do it at the top in the lifter galley. I'm in the same boat. I built a 331 one and kicking myself for not starting with a 351, think I'll get a dart block later down the road when I add a blower. If I ever get to work on the stupid thing again...
Ok maybe the block needs a bridge between the heads front and back to hold the block in place. I have been wondering if most of the blocks that crack have forged cranks and possibly with girdles. That would make the block absorb flex instead of the crankshaft in my opinion. I think most of the engine builders I know don't recommend a forged crank in a 302 block, that just my opinion and this is coming from a guy who doesn't build motors or have much experience with fords in general. If I am dead wrong than by all means say your thoughts on the block failures.
Regarding the 302....
The forged rotating assembly is not the problem. Because of the light duty nature of the block(thin casting) the 302 splits. Its really easy to hit the 450rwhp or so with a turbo 302 thats stock. So strokers, nice heads, cams just let you get to the max power of the block at less boost. The explorer 5.0 doesnt have forge pistons and that rotating assembles splits the block easily.
From what I have read on the interweb, too many revs with help with the block flex. All engines flex somewhat, just 302 flexs alot. Usually blowing the headgaskets first. Then the user really clamps the heads down. Then the block splits.
Travis