Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: jonwayne1988 on December 18, 2011, 07:26:22 PM

Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 18, 2011, 07:26:22 PM
Well I was thinking about getting a TC off cragis list that already had the motor and tranny pulled out of it. I also have a friend that is a Super Coupe nutt. He has 3 SC and 3 spare complete SC motors. I was just wanting to see if any one has swapped a SC motor in to a fox body bird. If you have pics or info that would be great. Thanks
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: daminc on December 18, 2011, 07:40:18 PM
1 person has done it........ I hear the wiring is a nightmare.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Beau on December 18, 2011, 07:59:13 PM
In before the nutswingers start the endless ford vs. chevy debate...again.

To the OP: search a member by the name of "spazpuppies"...he did or had done the swap with fantastic results.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 18, 2011, 08:13:40 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;375832
In before the nutswingers start the endless ford vs. chevy debate...again.

 
seriously? that's the dumbest statement i've ever heard, since absolutely nothing was mentioned about a GM motor or any GM part for that matter.. just let it die

ANYWAY, all retarded BS aside.. wiring will be a nightmare if you use the stock harness.. there's a ton of un-needed BS, so the easiest route is a megasquirt ecu.. i've been considering this for quite some time and if my 4 banger lets me down, that's the route i'm taking.. just don't drop the motor in without replacing the head gaskets first.. being a 3.8, they SUCK.. being supercharged, they SUCK even more
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Beau on December 18, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Shadow;375835
don't drop the motor in without replacing the head gaskets first.. being a 3.8, they BLOW.. being supercharged, they BLOW even more
Fix't.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 18, 2011, 08:35:16 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;375838
Fix't.

same difference.. suck, blow.. it's all a double meaning reference.. LOL
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 18, 2011, 08:55:32 PM
LOL the motor will be a fresh rebuild so all new gaskets and everything.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: daminc on December 18, 2011, 09:14:30 PM
My machine shop guy says you should always balance the crank in those motors... it's the weak link in the motor
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 18, 2011, 09:18:13 PM
felpro used to make a 'correction' gasket, but i think they discontinued it >:l
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 18, 2011, 10:21:13 PM
Well when it comes to 87-97 tbirds I have a friend that is like a walking book. He has a fully rebuilt 91 SC motor, wiring harness and EEC ready to rock and roll for me. He is also the one that found me a 88 tc on cragis list for 300 with no motor or tranny. So I'm just trying to find out what I can to help him along even know he probably wont need it but I still like to know.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 18, 2011, 10:32:48 PM
luckily motor mounts won't be any issue, since they're the same as standard 3.8 mounts.. i'll be super jealous if you pull this off before i do.. then i'll have to find another capri and do it to that lol
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 19, 2011, 12:17:59 AM
Well a lot of how fast we get it done depends on how long it take to get this 88 TC body. LOL that would be a cool swap for a Capri I don't think I have ever seen that done. But yea I really want to do this swap. My 88 TC that I already have needs a friend.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: beast50 on December 20, 2011, 02:06:39 AM
:headbang: DOOOO ITT!.....and take lots of pictures
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 20, 2011, 10:04:38 PM
I will. I plan on making a how too on it as well.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Bruce M on December 20, 2011, 10:26:28 PM
I almost put a built super coupe motor in my old ranger. It had a comp cam, eagle rods, Ross pistons and ported heads with SS valves and comp springs. I did the heads and my old boss built the engine. Anyway the customer never came back for it and never paid for it. My boss was going to let me have it for the price of the parts. I did the math and it would have been cheaper to put a V8 in it so I declined, and I couldnt find a carbed intake for it at the time.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 20, 2011, 11:11:42 PM
there is no such animal as a carb'd SC intake, unless you're talking about running NA.. then it's a rare bird, especially in a performance form.. stock EFI intakes are super restrictive from my understanding, so the NA 3.8 performance options aren't really there
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: EFFalcon on December 21, 2011, 12:52:52 AM
just how good are the super coupe motors?

We never got the 3.8 over here (or atleast not in any decent numbers) as we had our own inline 6.

although it didnt stop someone putting one in an EA Falcon (1988-1991)
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt151/pooljunkiejeff/tn_100_2743.jpg
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt151/pooljunkiejeff/tn_100_2744.jpg
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt151/pooljunkiejeff/tn_100_2738.jpg
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 21, 2011, 12:57:14 AM
they're great once you get past the head gasket issue.. they pack a swift punch for being in such a heavy car.. i'm willing to bet an SC 3.8/5 speed in a mustang/capri with slight suspension mods and typical bolt-ons could rocket into the 12's with ease
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: EFFalcon on December 21, 2011, 01:00:27 AM
Heh, ammusing that they have a headgasket 'issue'

the factory numbers make them appear a bit meh, but i've got no idea how they respond to modifications.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 21, 2011, 01:11:02 AM
they were detuned off the assembly line for emissions .. the first mods i made to mine were a jet chip, 15% pulley, headers off an SN95 mustang, 2-1/2 true dual with h pipe and a 75mm throttle body.. it was a huge improvement over stock.. felpro used to make a 'correction' head gasket for the common 3.8 head gasket issue, but they either changed the part number or discontinued them, as i can't find them anymore.. a good place to start with the gasket issue is running ARP studs, instead of factory replacement head bolts
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 21, 2011, 11:12:11 AM
Well my friend had 120,000 miles on his sc before the head gaskets gave out. And as for how well they mod he said he could have it to 300 to 350 hp with less then 3000 dollars and that includes the rebuilt motor. I do have a question not sure who will know this but is there any difference between the fox 3.8 motor mount and the mn12 3.8 motor mount. I need to see if I need to find a set or if the set off the downer sc will work.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 21, 2011, 11:33:43 AM
according to chuck's site, all 3.8 mounts (at least as far as birds go) are the same

300-350hp is achievable with less than $1000 if you spend your money in the right places.. i know you said including rebuilding the motor, but what exactly was he including in that? re-using all the OEM parts, or buying new? i've seen SC'shiznit 450 with a stock crank/rods and aftermarket pistons.. if he's big into SC's, i'm sure you've already heard about bill and super coupe performance.. great guy, great parts.. would highly recommend doing business with him..

my only 4 suggestions are getting a chip, bigger front mount than the OEM piece, SN95 mustang headers with a decent sized true dual exhaust (or aftermarket, whichever) and at least a 10% pulley.. those 4 things will be the biggest bang for your buck and won't make your wallet cry

also, depending on the year SC the motor cam from, it may not have the M90, which came on the later SC's.. they're a vast improvement over the earlier blowers
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Chuck W on December 21, 2011, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: jonwayne1988;375994
I do have a question not sure who will know this but is there any difference between the fox 3.8 motor mount and the mn12 3.8 motor mount. I need to see if I need to find a set or if the set off the downer sc will work.

Yes, they are slightly different IF you're talking about MN-12 v 86-88 3.8 mounts.  The side-to-side offset on the driver side mount is a bit different between them, but the pass side is the same.  You can use either on an 86-88 car with minor mods.

The year of the car determines what mounts.

83-85 TBird/Cougar - Use the original mounts, or Fox Mustang ones.
86-88 TBird/Cougar - Use the original mounts, or 89-92 MN-12 TBird/Cougar ones.

Or a set of aftermarket ones...

All 3.8 mounts aren't the same...it's just simplified on my site, but there are 3 types from 86-97 - 86-88, 89-92, 93-97.  86-88 and 89-92 are close enough to work.  The bases on the 93-97 are TOTALLY different and will not interchange.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 21, 2011, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Chuck W;375996
Yes, they are slightly different IF you're talking about MN-12 v 86-88 3.8 mounts.  The side-to-side offset on the driver side mount is a bit different between them, but the pass side is the same.  You can use either on an 86-88 car with minor mods.

The year of the car determines what mounts.

83-85 TBird/Cougar - Use the original mounts, or Fox Mustang ones.
86-88 TBird/Cougar - Use the original mounts, or 89-92 MN-12 TBird/Cougar ones.

Or a set of aftermarket ones...

All 3.8 mounts aren't the same...it's just simplified on my site, but there are 3 types from 86-97 - 86-88, 89-92, 93-97.  86-88 and 89-92 are close enough to work.  The bases on the 93-97 are TOTALLY different and will not interchange.


well your site banboozled me.. lol good info to know
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Bruce M on December 21, 2011, 07:15:37 PM
I would have been NA.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 21, 2011, 11:03:46 PM
OK so I'm going to use a 91 sc motor in a 88 tc so I can use the monuts off the 91 in the tc with no problems?
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on December 30, 2011, 06:06:30 PM
OK so I have the motor now I need to figure out what flywheel and clutch to use with a t5 transmssion. I have a stage 2 10.5inch clutch. Think I can use that? It is made for a 5.0 mustang.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Haystack on December 30, 2011, 07:22:24 PM
The clutch and transmission whould work as long as you have the correct bellhousng. You will need a 0oz inbalance flywheel and the correct starter. I know cougarse on here put a t-5 behind a 88 v-6 which should use the same parts to swap over.

Wiring is going to be a much bigger issue then msking things fit. I would use a 86-88 5.0 harness and re-pin it to use the 89-93 supercoupe computer, and run all of the electronics off of the super coupe motor. You will also need the bigger fuel injectors, entire sc setup, and I'm sure a lot more things I am not aware of.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on December 31, 2011, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: jonwayne1988;376028
OK so I'm going to use a 91 sc motor in a 88 tc so I can use the monuts off the 91 in the tc with no problems?

you should have (almost) no problem doing so

Quote from: Haystack;376540
Wiring is going to be a much bigger issue then msking things fit. I would use a 86-88 5.0 harness and re-pin it to use the 89-93 supercoupe computer, and run all of the electronics off of the super coupe motor. You will also need the bigger fuel injectors, entire sc setup, and I'm sure a lot more things I am not aware of.

agreed.. i never really thought of doing it that way.. it would eliminate a lot of the headaches that are tied into the stock SC harness.. they should have basically the same sensors/plugs, but i would definitely say it'll 99.9999% likely need to be repinned for the SC eec
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Haystack on January 01, 2012, 01:12:50 AM
http://oldfuelinjection.com/5.0Lpinouts.html

No idea what the actual eec pinouts are for the supercoupes, but I would assume that it would follow closesly to the diferences between the 86-88 harness and 91-93 5.0 harness. I think swaping less then 10 pins at the 60 pin plug would get you 99% of the way there. Everything should more or less fit under the hood, and the t-5 swap shouldnt be any harder then any other aod to t-5 swap, as long as the super coupe motors stayed 0oz imbalance.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Beau on January 01, 2012, 02:32:57 AM
To the OP: might check out sccoa.com for info, as well.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on January 01, 2012, 10:05:44 AM
x2 on sccoa.. i signed up on there when i had my SC and learned a lot about the cars/motors, just by reading through some tech threads
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Chuck W on January 01, 2012, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: jonwayne1988;376028
OK so I'm going to use a 91 sc motor in a 88 tc so I can use the monuts off the 91 in the tc with no problems?


If you have them, use the lower U-brackets and the bushings from the 88TC with the engine brackets from the 91.

You may be able to use the 91 mounts as is, but you might need to elongate the slot in the K-member on the driver side.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on January 03, 2012, 09:41:41 PM
I was thinking about trying this wiring harrness http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MG%2D38
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on January 03, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
yikes.. that's a bit of a dent in the wallet for a harness..
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2012, 09:23:26 AM
Quote from: jonwayne1988;376943
I was thinking about trying this wiring harrness http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MG%2D38


It's an EEC4 system.  No way in hell it needs a $600+ "custom" harness...
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2012, 09:53:08 AM
i'm still voting for repinning an NA 3.8 harness
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: sarjxxx on April 05, 2012, 12:27:51 AM
What happened to this project?
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on May 20, 2012, 11:17:46 PM
I have the motor ready to go. But the car I was getting to put the motor in didn't happen. So I'm still looking for a body to put it in.
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: sarjxxx on May 21, 2012, 05:19:07 PM
bummer hopefully you'll find something soon :)
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: Bruce M on May 21, 2012, 06:50:35 PM
Put it in a ranger. :burnout:
Title: Super Coupe Motor In A Fox Body Bird
Post by: jonwayne1988 on May 22, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
I have a seconed 3.8 sc motor for that too. I want do do the fox body swap first.