Hey All, We've been doing some more work to the '87 XR-7. Finally have the 3:73 rear end from an auto '88 TC installed in the car. Along with the rear end, we've replaced the calipers, pads, turned the rotors, all new brake lines, CHE upper and lower tubular control arms, new Moog springs and axle dampener shocks and replaced the fluid with Royal Purple. The car would have been up and rolling again yesterday, but we are trying the proportioning valve from the TC to see how that works and have had to chase down all of the fittings, lines, unions etc to get the brake lines all hooked up. Should be rolling tonight. :burnout:
If any one needs a 2:73 Trak-lok 7.5 let me know. :hick:
pics
Looking good. I hated that job as my rearend began to make some pretty nasty noises soon after the swap. A rebuild later and higher gears, it appears to function well. Disc brakes made my parking brake MUCH stronger.
That's what I want out of the brakes. Just swapping in the front Mustang GT brakes made a world of difference! I hope now it'll be like throwing out a boat anchor.:D
Awesome job Mechanized. I have to do the same swap. Did you have to use the adapter for the hard line in the rear of the car to the soft hose on the TC diff? I have to do this swap and I wanna make sure I have all the parts to do it including the adapters for the front TC brakes and the porportioning valve.
Keep us posted. I am watching this.
Hey Thanks man,
Yes, I had a hard line made at a place here called the brake shop. It has the 3/16 fitting to the car side and then the 5/16 fitting to the rubber line on the diff. side. The new adapter line is only 14 inches long. I'll post more pics.
I did about this same swap ( I used the 88 TC rear disc brakes on a 7.5 rear ) and found that if you use the 84 Mustang SVO Master cylinder tthe rears will fell way more firm and aggressive.
the 85 TC Master cylinde is 7/8 plunger and the 84 Mustang SVO MC is 1 1/8 so it moves more fluid quicker.
Ok, good to know, I'll keep those in mind if this isn't as responsive as I would like.
I have the complete diff sitting at home. I cut the hard line at the flex so i could save the flex hose. I was hoping it was a direct bolt on to the line. I have the adaperts for the front. may be the same for the rear?
yes. I would love to see pics. I do beter seeing then reading.
you will need the bracket from the TC doner car, the hard line from the body is on the pass side with the drum brake rear
the disc rear ( If your still using the 88TC axl hard lines) the flex is on the driver side of the rear.
the body hard line will need to be extended about 12-16 inces over to the driver side.
Also, (if I remember correctly) the body hard line on the 88 TC is 1/4 inch for the rear disc, and the drum brakes use a 3/16
so to get the rear calipers to work properly, you should upgrade the rear feed hard body line it 1/4 to get proper fluid flow
calipiers by design need more fluid flow
Any pics yet???????
LoL, not yet. Working massive overtime. :crazy:
Thats sucks....but it does bring in extra doe!!!!
I'm so confused...I probably forgot by now but I don't remember any issues with my car's hard lines? The fronts I had to modify the brackets to get the houses clipped into place but I don't recall any issues with the rear. My intermediate hose was looking a little aged so I replaced it but from there it all bolted in fine? I had 10" rear drums previously.
I also came to some conclusion that the stock proportioning valve would never protect you if you lost fluid pressure, but I don't remember the reasoning. I was so worried about keeping it in place for its protective benefits until I found how it worked and that it wouldn't stop any accidents if one hose were to blow somewhere on the car. It's amazing how much I knew, yet now I can't remember. Either way, the adjustable made quite a big difference in front to rear with 73mm calipers up front and the (38mm? 43mm?) TC ones out back.
Ok, today I went ahead and picked up a MC for a Mustang SVO just to see. It looks as though it would bolt on, but the MC for the Cougar/T-bird has three brake lines coming out of it whereas the SVO MC only has two. If you can run the SVO MC, how do you run the lines?
Also, wouldn't a MC from the Turbo-coupe have the bigger brake piston as well over the standard Cougar?
Turbo coupes had a different master cyl. It was that abs all in one unit that the Mark 7 uses. I think there is a write up on the 3 into 2 for the SVO master cyl on a couple sites. I think Corral has one.
the 83-86 Tc had vac booster with normal MC the 87/88 TC had the ABS
My 85 TC had and has only 2 lines from the MC to the combo/prop valve
no the 83-86 TC ran the same MC as the rest of the birds, since it was front disc and rear drum some had 9 inch others had 10 inch drums
I also went to (and modified) the 87/88 TC combo/prop valve to use with the rear disc swap
I had to remove the switch that triggered the red brake light on the dash when fluid pressure is lost, so I could use that port for the other front brake.
Thanks Bogus! I saw the pressure switch on the TC prop. valve. I removed that and installed the plug from the Cougars instead. Is that where you ran your 3rd line?
I was looking at maximum motorsports website and saw the SVO MC adapter kit. Looks good and isn't expensive.
Also, the front calipers for the SVO measure at 73mm, do the '91 Mark VII calipers measure at 71mm? I know some of the guys have ran these fronts, but wasn't sure of the size.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49_140&products_id=672
yes , I have no idiot light switch in my combo valve now
But after a coulpe of rounds around the block, when you about just blow on the brake peddle, the car wants to thiw you thu the windshield.....
Maybe I should not have open the passages in the combo valve...... I reemed them from 1/8 to 3/16
also with the Mustang SVO MC 1 1/8 plunger, when compaired to the 7/8 Of the TC.. based on a 1.5 stroke.. the SVO moves 2.77 more fluid
Pics pics pics........
I was under my Sport today and saw the hard line to the rear on the pass side. The TC Diff has the junction on top of the diff. I wonder how hard it is to modify this?
I had that same issue... I extended the steel line and used the TC body bracket so I did not have to mod the flex line ir the rear end steel line
I believe the rear brake hard line on the 87-88 TC's and 87-93 5.0 Mustangs as well as the Mark VII's (not sure on the years) goes up the drive shaft tunnel and terminates just above the pumpkin on the rear end. It takes a banjo style soft line to go from where the hard line ends over to the rear end. My 83 Bird and the 93 Coupe (originally a 4 cylinder) both had soft lines on the right rear of the car. I kept it this way on the Coupe but I am going to switch to the center mounted line on the Bird as the 3" cat back is giving me issues with the right rear configuration. You can see what I am talking about here in the 4th and 10th pictures:
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0903_fox_mustang_brake_upgrade/photo_10.html
Darren
Yes. I see. And where that breather cap is on the axle tube is where the 5.0L Thunderbird flex line bolts to the hard lines for the brake wheel cyl.
Now is there a way you can run the stock tbird line and still work the rear brakes properly if you swap to the turbo coupe diff? I really want to install this diff in my car. I know the stock 5.0L tbird and TC tbird hard lines to the rear are different sizes. I know an adapter could be used to make the stock 5.0L tbird rear line bolt to the tc brake hose, but that will go against the hydralic circuit. Small inlet to biger outlet would equil more pedal effort to apply rear brakes then? So use and adapter at the porportioning valve and run the proper sized brake line to the rear? I think I am getting confused now. Seems harder than I thought.
bending new steel line is not all that hard, if you still have acess to the TC, just go get the steel line from it and drop it in your thunderbird.
Mechanized......Any pics yet? How did the swap go?
I’m not going to highjack here cuz this is on topic. I just picked up a TC rear end for cheap. It was $250 cheaper than a guy here in town and has new brake hardware. What I didn’t notice till I got it home was that the more minor of the quad shock brackets were cut off on both sides. I did notice before the sale that the lines had been redone and weren’t in a position for the hose bracket by the caliper to bolt down. The main hose connection is on the pumpkin and not on the passenger’s axle like in the original post with pictures, too. I’m assuming that this axle may have had a pan hard bar or some other type of suspension improvement. Anyone have any thoughts on whether I should swap all the TC hardware to my drum axle or use this axle and take advantage of whatever suspension improvements this can take advantage of?
the brake spacing is off by about a 1/2 toward the center section if it is a 87/88 TC rear and you will have to space it towards the tube ends to get it to line up.
but if you do space it out, then your hard lines and vent should fall right in place to keep your flex line where it is now.
Are you referring to the difference between Mustang GT and TC 8.8's or Cougar drum 8.8 vs. TC 8.8? The axle tube length is the same on all of them right?
BTW I edited my post to make it a little more clear. It sounded confusing when I re-read it.
This thread may be of some help:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13253
I know I am being Captain Obvious but its got some good data in it and I believe you will be able to see the housing length differences between your car and the year of the TC you got the rear from.
Darren
no not the tube length, but the distance between the outside end of the tube and where the drum backing plate or the caliper bracket bolts to the thats welded to the tube
I think I understand what you are talking about. Would this be the area where the axle bearing and seal are installed on the ends of the axle?
Darren
yes that is where I am talking about
This is the useful bit here...
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showpost.php?p=138359&postcount=12
So I'm not getting where this conversation is going towards answering my question. I'm pretty confident that it has TC hubs since it has the ABS ring on it. I'll measure the width to ensure that it is 61".
The question is, should i use the axle housing with or without all the quad shock brackets?
You could swap the parts over to the drum axle if you want to keep the quad shock set up. But most people when they swap CHE trail arms in for the stock arms, they don't need the quad shocks anymore. The new arms with the poly/urathane bushings stop the wheel hop that you can get. If you go wider tires in the rear you need to remove the quad shocks.... I have the quad shocks on my car stock but they are bad and I don't need them anymore. So I will just pull them.
All up to you and what suspension set up your going to do on the car in the future. Or can your car even spin the tires from a stop?
I am still waiting for the pics of the rear diff swap so I can see what I have to do too do this. If I do this at my work, then I need a quick easy swap with all the info and pics I can get. Heck, it only took me 3 min to pull the TC diff out at work and it will only take me a few min to get it into my car. It is the brake fittings and what mods I have to do to make it work so I can drive it home after I install it. And I am more of a visual guy then a read about it.
Thanks for your thoughts. Gives me more to go read about.
I expect it will spin the tires. I'm currently dropping a 4.6L 3v from an 08 GT. I'm thinking I may have to be concerned with axle wind up. Do the CHE trail arms address that or is wheel hop the same thing as axle wind up?
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=18403
The arms should address that.
Ok. What fittings and size line did you guys use to extend the brake line to the turbo coupe rear diff flex hose? I want to get the parts ordered so I can install this diff into my car.
Thanks
What did you guys also use as a porportioning valve?
I gutted the stock proportioning valve under the MC but left the shuttle valve. After that I installed the FMS M2450 plug in the front of the stock proportioning valve and installed an adjustable proportioning valve (I used a Wilwood, Summit P/N WIL-260-8419). I pilfered this from Matt's site but it is very informative on why you will need to do this:
[COLOR="blue"]The stock proportioning valve will need to be modified if you go to rear disc or to install an adjustable proportioning valve. You will need the FMS part: M-2450-A and an adjustable proportioning valve to complete the modification. The stock PV is housed in the combination block under the MC towards the front of the car. The rear of the combination block housed the shuttle valve or pressure differential valve. Do not touch this shuttle valve assembly in the combination block.
Why do you need to modify the proportioning valve? Because it is designed for the specific car and brakes that come with it off the assembly line. So if you change to different size brakes, you will need to change the front to rear bias via the proportioning valve. If you do not, then you will not get the most braking capability out of the car. Worst case scenario, you have too much rear bias and the car spins around when the brakes are applied. Not good on a rainy night! Why not use a Sn95 unit? First off there is two different styles on the 94+ Mustangs. The non-ABS cars have a unit with a factory 3rd port out the back of the valve. You could use this housing unit to convert to a 2 port MC, but you have to get the brake line nut off the 3rd brake line. You will not find that nut at any parts store. The ABS equipped mustangs do not have this 3rd port and are mounted differently in the car. With either unit, the bias is built for the newer Sn95 cars. Thus the bias on these units is just as wrong as your stock unit for use with rear disc. You need to set the bias properly for your car which means you have to install an adjustable valve after defeating/gutting the stock PV unit.
Okay, so how do you "gut" this proportioning valve? You use a 13/16 wrench and take the front cap off of it. Be careful as once it is loosened, the spring will shoot it out! Then remove the spring, the spring seat and rod and discard. You may need some needle nose pliers to remove the rod from the valve. Do NOT remove the rear spring and rod from the rear of the valve. Transfer the rubber O-ring from the stock end cap to the FMS M2450A unit and install the FMS plug.
Once you are done modifying the stock valve, you need to install an adjustable unit. There are two kinds of adjustable units: style and lever style. The lever style is more designed for an in-car application so that you can adjust the bias as the tires and brakes wear down in a race. You want the style. To install it, remove the coupler along the passenger side firewall and replace that with the valve.
When you bleed the brakes, adjust the valve all the way in for the maximum rear pressure. Once done, adjust the valve all the way out, and then in 4 full turns for your initial setting. Adjust in 1 turn increments from there and then half turn increments to fine tune. You will feel the braking and the pedal differ as the bias is changed.[/COLOR]
Darren
Mechanized, Did you ever take any pics of the installed/newly routed brake lines from passenger side to driver's side of axle? I figure I'm going to miss something and run the brake lines in a bad or vunerable place.
Crash, I just did a TC rear swap in my 86 and can take a pic of the line to the the flexible line. Basically what I did was get a line with nuts and preflared ends (it was 20" long) and just hand bent it into shape. I used a 3/16 union at the factory hard line and a 3/16 to 1/4 adapter to the flex line. I put the back up on jack stands at the frame rail to ensure that the line wasn't pulled on when going over stuff Dukes of Hazzard style.
Thanks. That would be great. There's some things I'd only like to do once. I'm already contemplating doing the trans cooler lines over again since they sit WAY TOO low. In return I'll post a burnout pic or video (hopefully my car won't disappoint).
I completed my swap. Seems the Sport thunderbird is the same as the TC . The brake line to the rear is the same. So I swapped in the TC porportioning valve which bolted in except I needed an adapter for the front top port on the prop valve. Then the diff bolted in to the stock location and the flex line bolted up too. Bled the system with a BG brake flush machine and 2 litters of fluid. Nice and clean now and bled with no air. When I get my tranny back I will have to try the brakes out and feel the swap from 2:73 to 3:73 with my 351w and hardcore built AOD with a 3000 stall converter
I hope the OP doesn't mind me cluttering up his post with my pics, but here they are. They aren't the greatest as I didnt actually jack the car up. I just kinda stuck my arm under it and hoped for a good shot. The first pic shows how I bent the factory hard line to point towards the opposite side of the car. Also visible is the union and hard line I used. The second pic shows the mounting point (I used a factory hole) and the adapter (kinda.) Hope this helps.
And yes, a burnout video will be needed as payment.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/005-10.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/006-11.jpg)
Thanks LoadedIroc, I wasn't sure about the clearance in the driveshaft tunnel. If I have to do anything different I'll post pics. 86capri if its any indication my friend Don had a 351 in his tbird and it smoked the tires pretty easily. A 3000 stall converter should make it worth the wait :) Just when you think you're going to hang it up, these things just reel you back in.
I hope so Crash. I want to have fun with this car. I just called the trans guy and he is getting it all appart now. I want to find a trans cooler with a thermostatic controlled fan. I want this thing nice and cool for cruising.