***Warning Do This Modification at YOUR own Risk!!!***
Ok, as most of you know the Mustang shocks are too short to install on our cars. Well, by flipping the lower shock mount on the rear axle you can gain a couple inches to mount them. I have only used Bullitt Tokicos, but I can't see why any other year wouldn't work. Anyone? Anyhoos, not going to go into detail of how to remove the shock and just cut to the chase.
>>Remove the shock mount.
>>Enlarge the opening where the mount hooks into to accept the threaded portion of the shock mount. I used an 3/8 drill bit and a dremel burr.
>>Install the shock mount upside down with threaded part into the enlarged hole and hook end into the lower opening.
>>Install nut onto shock mount but do not tighten yet.
>>Install shock... but do not tighten bottom bolt all the way yet.
>>Tighten down the nut onto the shock mount... will take awhile, unless your control arms are off you will only be able to fit an open end wrench in there. BE SURE TO MAKE IT TIGHT OR IT WILL LOOSEN!!!
>>Torque all bolts.
>>You know the rest. ^_^
PICS!!!
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/ether947/Flipped%20Shock%20Brackets/darkthunder_mustangshock_02.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/ether947/Flipped%20Shock%20Brackets/darkthunder_mustangshock_01.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/ether947/Flipped%20Shock%20Brackets/darkthunder_mustangshock_03.jpg)
(http://www.dr-elosmisho.com/smee/darkthunder_images/mustang_shocks/darkthunder_mustangshock_01.jpg)
(http://www.dr-elosmisho.com/smee/darkthunder_images/mustang_shocks/darkthunder_mustangshock_02.jpg) (http://www.dr-elosmisho.com/smee/darkthunder_images/mustang_shocks/darkthunder_mustangshock_03.jpg)
hmmmm, interesting
something i thought about when i was in a local autoparts store, they actually sell shock lengthening bolt things...there they thread onto the shock shaft, then have about a 2" spacer, then the threaded portion, would be very easy to make
Yeah, i thought about buying those too, but one day i want to get Illumina's... and that will surely pose a problem. ^_^
That should pose no problems as long as the nut stays tight. Some LocTite would help too. It still winds up about 1" shy of the actual difference, but if the car is lowered slightly you should be good.
time to find some take-offs withint the next few months then...
Cool now I can use Koni adjustibles on the rear......yah! :banana:
Sniff, sniff..... hmmmmm. Do I smell a "sticky"? :D
ya dame skippy, this should be a sticky.
It sure would be nice if an enterprising guy with suspension and fabrication experience would make up a set of brackets that used two bolts, made up that extra inch, and would sell them to the rest of us :grinno:
I would probably add a couple of welds to them as well.
Bob Myers
;)
... maybe.
But then there will be all these folks who will say "Why do I need to buy that when I can just drill a hole and tun this one around?" :giggle:
Bringing this back, I was wondering (I'm sure Chuck will be the one answering as usual) if losing the suspension travel is an issue when doing this and going to Mustang shocks. Was the extra suspension travel just for carrying heavy loads in the Tbird and maintaining ride comfort?
Actually, when doing this mod, you really don't lose much travel, if any at all. The difference is that the Tbird shocks were almost 3" longer at full extension (and compression) than the Mustang counterparts. There wasn't much more overall travel in the Tbird shocks v/s the Mustang
You physically can't bolt up Mustang shocks in the stock position without compressing the suspension a great deal. What you are then left with is a rear axle that does not droop at all....not a very good thing.
When you flip the mounting bracket around you basically negate most of that 3" length difference.
Not sure why Ford did what they did. The Fairmonts use the same shocks as a Mustang (as well as control arms), but they have a wheel base that's longer than the Tbirds (105" vs 104.4") *shrug*, who knows.
I hope my adjustable rear shocks from Competition Engineering fit...they list the same part number for all fox body cars. I haven't looked at them for a few months...probably have spacers or something...I vaguely remember the stud mount being rediculously long.
Hmm, that is weird, you'd think they'd have more travel but the shock just has longer pick up points. Now I have a whole other set of choices for shocks, great, more choices, not always a good thing, it means I might spend more money.
Oh, and I don't remember whether the SN95 shocks were a bit longer than fox shocks or not? I assume we still want to use the SN95 shocks when doing the flipped axle mounts?
The SN-95 shocks aren't much, if any longer.
There was a post somewhere, sometime that had the lengths compressed and extended of a Mustang and a Tbird shock. The Tbirds might have had an extra 1/2" of travel, but they were definitely longer. Even with the flipped bracket, you are still about an 1" shorter, but it is useable.
You posted that information here (http://"http://foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?p=18915&highlight=shocks+compressed+extended#post18915").
The Mustang shock has 1.5" less travel.
Oh, I guess that was me...:giggle:
I actually copied that from someone else. Anyway, there you go.
Guys, I always figured the fox stang shocks/struts were a direct bolt on. The lowering springs are, correct?
What is I bought a Bullitt suspension kit. Would it all work together since I'd be replacing all the parts?
FYI: The Bullitt kit comes with Tokico shocks, strits and springs.
If this kit lowers the 99-04 stangs about 3/4", then how much you think it'll lower the bird?
I'm guessing about 1.5"
Try it, find out and let us know.
Take height measurements at all 4 corners before and after.
Front sway bar won't work, and the rear shocks will be too short...
will the shocks still be too short when the car is lowered the 1.5" or so?
Even if I reverse the mount?
Did you even read this thread?
They can be used, but they are still technically too short even with the mount reversed.
Yes, I read this thread. I guess I misunderstood. I thought if the car was lowered, then that would make up for the 1.5"
If the car is lowered, then you should be ok.
I used that exact kit on darkthunder. click on the link in my sig to see how it sits. Personally I like the kit. I didn't have a problem with the rear shocks. I did have a problem with the struts though. My strut mounts were too tall and I couldn't thread the nut on enough. I ended up buying caster/camber plates to remedy this. You my not have this prob, but just so you are aware.
Also it lowered my bird about 1.5 inches, slightly lower in the rear.
Did you reverse the shock mounts on the back,or did you just bolt them in?
How long have you had it? How does it ride/handle? Any complaints?
Oh yeah, and which c/c plates did you go with, MM?
I am the author of this thread. I tried both ways. Either way worked for me. I had it for about a year before I partically parted the car out for financial reasons.
I really like the kit. Second best handling car I've ever driven. First would be my buddies Stang with Bilstein BTS kit. But his ride is pretty darn stiff. So much so that I dodge bumps and holes on the road. The Bullitt kit rides stiffer than stock, but not that bad. I actually wish the rears where a little stiffer.
And yes I used MM c/c plates. I would buy the kit again if I get the cash, along with some CHE adjustable rear lower control arms to adjust rear ride height.
Koni makes rear shocks for the T-Birds as well as the front struts. They work nice with the coils overs. Bought mine from Griggs Racing.
Darren
How recently did you make this purchase?
Yes..how long ago?
They have been discontinued for a few years now by both Koni and Bilstein.
Just bought it all earlier this year. Will dig my receipt out this evening when I get back to the house.
Darren
The dealer I bought them from is a friend of mine and I cannot find the invoice. I called him and he is going to email me one in the morning. I will post the part number as soon as he gets it to me. If you guys are interested in contacting him for the information or a quote his website is:
http://www.chicane23.com
You will find his contact info in "products" at the bottom of the Griggs advertisp00get. John is the American Iron champ 2004 & 2005 and runs full Griggs cars. The 2006 season was not all that good as he built a brand new 2004 body in white car that had a few bugs as all new cars do. Should literally dominate next year. He knows his equipment and stands by what he sells.
Darren
Got the receipt and John shows the part number as "KF YEL" so not much help. Like I said if you are interested get on his website and shoot him an email or call him.
Darren
I e-mailed Chicane23 [John G.] about the T-bird specific shocks/struts and this is his reply...
And my question to you is what year Bird and type of suspension. That will affect the style of strut and shock. My car is an 83 and I have the SN95 front spindles so the double adjustible struts were an option.
I called John and he said it was year specific.
Darren
Well isn't that discouraging... at least for the fronts anyway. Did he give you a price on the rears?
I don't see how. All 83-88 Tbird/Cougars have basically the same suspension.
No. I did ask in the e-mail though.
Jeremy,
If they are basically the same then whey does the 83 have its own K-Member, the 84-86 have their own K-Member, and the 87-88 K-Member have their own K-Member?
The 83-86 have a different strut as the spindles are different than the 87-88 cars. The different spindles also dictate the larger 4-lug brakes on the 87-88 cars which are the same spindles as the 86-93 Mustangs minus the SVO and Cobra models.
The lower control arm on the 83's is a bit shorter than the 84-86 cars and the 87-88 cars are longer yet.
So in short the front suspensions are pretty much different in the geometry but may use the same springs, control arm bushings, ball joints, and caster camber plates.
Darren
The '83 doesn't have its own K-member. The '83-85 cars use Mustang K-members, while '86-'88 cars have a unique K-member.
All non-TC cars use the same spindle. TC spindles have a thinner mounting ...but this is a moot point since the Koni struts require you to cut the strut body and reuse the lower half.
The '83 doesn't have a unique FCA either. '83-'86 cars shared FCAs with the Mustang, while '87-'88 cars had a unique length.
Different, but they should be close enough to interchange struts. I haven't read of it being a problem. I could be wrong though.
I just want some Tbird specific Koni DAs, is that too much to ask? :o :cool:
Wrong. End of story. I have a tubular K-Member in my 83, do you have one? I have tubular control arms on my 83, do you have them? I have the double adjustible struts with coil overs on the front of my 83, do you have this set up? The factory Ford measurements on an 83 K-Memeber are different that those of an 84-86 which are different than the 87-88 cars. This information can be obtained from Ford. Griggs discovered that the 83 has its own K-Member due to my car. They shipped me the one for the 84-86 cars (they used to call it the 83-86 unit) and low and behold it would not bolt up, not even close. I shipped it back to them including their tubular control arm, my stock K-Member, and stock lower control arms. They measured it up and low and behold it is definitely different....including the lower control arms.
I will not argue the fact that you can bolt up a Mustang K-Member to these cars, it will fit. The geometry is wrong but it will fit. When I speak of geometry I am talking about anti-dive and the location of the lower control arm front to back. Even Maximum Motorsports has a T-Bird specific K-Member.
The front spindles on the 83-86 TC's have the same brakes as the 5.0 cars, small and shiznitty. The 87-88 cars have the larger, yet still shiznitty, brakes up front which require the bigger spindles which you correctly pointed out to have the narrower mounting for the struts. The strut bolt holes are also farther apart on these spindles. I owned an 85 TC and know this for a fact as I upgraded the front brakes to the larger units. Not much of an upgrade but the parts were free.
I am going off of personal experience and what I know from dealing with my Fox T-Bird for 20+ years. The 83 was bought new by my dad and given to me 18 years ago so I have a lot of time working with this car and know it very well.
Darren
Show me proof. Sorry, but your word does not make it "end of story" for me in this regards. Where did it not bolt up? What were the other differences. Any pics? Any literature or info from Griggs?
I haven't seen any difference in control arms or K-members in messing with mine for the past 12 or so years. (don't remember when I bought my first one)
I could do a geometry study on my 84 XR-7 or 84 TC and compare it to my 83. The only difference is I have changed the anti-dive geometry on my 83, but can back those values out of the measurements. The fore/aft have not been changed. I also have the Mitchell geometry program...:D
The engine and trans are out of the 84 XR-7 and it is in the air on stands (getting ready to go to the syard in the sky)....so I can get measurments from that before it goes.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and if you're right and I can confirm it, then I'll change my tune. I've labored under misconceptions before :hick: I'm just also going off personal experience with these cars and making my own parts for them.
It is possible that some 1983 parts are unique. The hood p/n was unique and I think we figured out it had something to do with the mounting holes being a bit off from the later hoods. But...that doesn't prevent later hoods or hinges from being used. I can't see why control arms would be different. They were brought over directly from the Mustang. Unless there was a unique 1979-83 Mustang A-arm or something, but I've never seen that listed.
I deal mainly with part numbers now because there seems to be more proof of differences that way. For the control arms, 1983-86, I have listed F3ZZ-3078/9-A, which is a 1993 Mustang p/n. That obviously supercedes all previous p/n's, unique or not. But that also proves that they're all theoretically the same and interchangeable. I can't really believe that there was something that radically different on 1983 cars to warrant unique control arms. In fact...I can confirm that Rockwell made the OEM front control arms for our cars, in one of two plants: Newton Falls, OH or New Castle, PA. And I had relatives working in both plants. If there was something different I'd have known about it by now.
Now the engine crossmember...the p/n is E5SZ-5025-A for 1983-85 cars. Does that mean that there isn't something unique on 1983's? No. But this does show that a replacement OEM Ford crossmember for a 1985 fits a 1983. And it's been done before.
I will guaran--tee that tubular Mustang parts will virtually never bolt right up to a Cougar chassis. There is always something slightly out of whack somewhere. Too many stories from people here confirm that. I'd really like to see the measurements that Griggs came up with for your particular geometry, to see how far off they really were. Was it fractions of an inch? Or more?
Well I don't have a CMM, but I can lay out an '83 and '84 front suspension geometry and also check a few key mounting points as well. The 84 I can do whenever I can get back to taking the XR-7 apart. The 83 will have to wait until I can get it up in the air..
If you have a better idea what the supposed differences are, I can more quickly compare/contrast than doing a full lay-out.
As far as the control arms go, I know there were 2 different versions in the pre-Job 1 days. HD suspension and non. They used different bushings. I know when I got poly bushings for my 82 5.0 Mustang they were the HD type. It's "possible" early 83 Tbirds got some of the old HD stuff. After 83 they standardized the front control arms (save for the SVO) at least bushing-wise.
Well Darren, be you right or wrong. You've tainted your credibility with such disrespect.
Oh and you are completely wrong about spindles ass-hole.
And Chuck, if you decide to waist your time with this jagoff, my 83 is a March of 83 so if any 83 is going to have different parts it will. So if you want to compare to it then we could.
No need to get nasty.
I just want to know what the actual differences were, or at least where they are rumored to be so I can compare this info between my 83 and my 84. All my cars have been 83-85's (2 of each). My silver '83 is a June 83.
I have run into the different hole spacing on the spindles before myself. I suppose I can measure on the 84TC since it still have the original brakes on it. I modified a set of early spindles (read machined) to accept the later struts (I could get boxes full of new taoke-offs at work..so instead of buying new ones,...mod a set of spindles..) Only ran into it once though...and never thought much of it since seeing as I don't keep Fox brakes on my cars any more.
I'm curious about the geometry more than anything.
I got an email from John G. with pricing information:
On another note...it looks like Aerocoupe's posts have disappeared.
I think someone took his ball and went home...
*SIGH*
Personally I was very curious what the supposed differences were....(since I'm all up on the 83-84's)
I guess I'll take a couple quick measurments from the 84 XR-7 since it is stripped and ready to go away, and then when I get some time I'll compare to the 83.
I didn't read all five pages of this thread but:
about 2 years ago I was going to put front and rear coil-overs on my 88 TC (didn't end up using them). But I ordered a six piece strut/shock set from a mustang site online (basic kyb's for an 89 mustang) and long story short, after taking the coil-overs back off, I am still running mustang shocks...? Do they work on 87-88 TC's and just not other 'birds or is something strange here?
What springs are you using?
Nope..what you had to do was REALLY compress the ass end of the car to get the shock to bolt up.... 80-88Tbird shock are all the same and are longer than the Mustang ones. It's no mystery.
I know when you jacked up the rear of the car with those Mustang shocks on it, there was nil, of any axle droop.....
Springs I'm not sure.... we had a mix up and they are either stock TC or 5.0 mustang with ride height adjusters under them. But idk...of course I believe you Chuck, but I REALLY don't remember it being a c at all to get them in. Definitely no sitting on or jumping up and pushing the car down.... But I'll make note of the drop when I work on my exhaust in a couple weeks...
Oooo... I need to retype this (even though it isn't really needed anymore), but I found the pics on my computer so I reattached them.