Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: thunderjet302 on March 19, 2008, 04:34:17 PM

Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 19, 2008, 04:34:17 PM
So after driving my 95 around all winter I've come to like to trans in it much better than my stock AOD in the 88. Both trannies are stock and the 4R70W just seems to respond much better to throttle inputs and in holding gears to higher rpms when warrented (full throttle ect). My AOD isn't dead or dying but if I wanted to do any upgrades (ie higher stall converter, shift kit, A servo, ect) I might as well just rebuild/replace the thing since mine has almost 129,000 miles on it. So I'm thinking that instead of getting a built AOD I'd go with a 4R70W swap instead. I know that there are kits to drop a 4R70W into a 5.0 Mustang (Bauman makes one for example) so I'm thinking about it. I know people are going to say just get a built AOD but it's a pain trying to find someone who knows what they are doing. I've heard horror stories about AODs from well know trans firms (TCI, Lentech, ect) blowing up behind 5.0s at less than their rated capacity. So any input (I know someone is going to say throw in a T5;) )?
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: 1BadBird on March 19, 2008, 05:56:22 PM
:shakeass:  Had to the 1st  to say it :evilgrin: 
Put  a T-5 in!! :burnout: Na, seriously though, I've read somewhere in one of the stang rags that someone has an adaptor or something like that to put 4R70W behind a 5.0  Too bad I gave the one behind my 4.6 away :beatyoass:
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: dudeman351 on March 19, 2008, 07:26:20 PM
you could use a 94-95 v8 mustang computer and harness. still eec iv but it will run the electronic trans. also 5.0 and 4.6 have different bell housing bolt patterns
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: 32VFoxBird on March 19, 2008, 08:00:19 PM
you can swap most of the 4r70's guts into your aod case. you can also purchase a manual valve body from PA, so you dont have to run a controller.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CougarSE on March 19, 2008, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: dudeman351;209891
you could use a 94-95 v8 mustang computer and harness. still eec iv but it will run the electronic trans. also 5.0 and 4.6 have different bell housing bolt patterns


Yes but that computer is designed to control an AODE not a 4R70W.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: 32VFoxBird on March 19, 2008, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;209900
Yes but that computer is designed to control an AODE not a 4R70W.


its basically the same thing.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: daboss351 on March 19, 2008, 10:01:14 PM
go to FordvsChevy.com
talk to a guy named silverfox
knows his transmissions and builds and sells performance parts for them. he will have all the info you need
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CougarSE on March 19, 2008, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;209903
its basically the same thing.

Nope sure isn't..  To run a 4r70w with an AODE controller you have to change the Torque Converter Solenoid and the valve body controller with units out of an AODE.  After those modifications it will work.  If you don't it will burn the EEC up.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: 32VFoxBird on March 19, 2008, 10:10:41 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;209908
Nope sure isn't..  To run a 4r70w with an AODE controller you have to change the Torque Converter Solenoid and the valve body controller with units out of an AODE.  After those modifications it will work.  If you don't it will burn the EEC up.


i did say basically. :raspberry
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 19, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;209896
you can swap most of the 4r70's guts into your aod case. you can also purchase a manual valve body from PA, so you dont have to run a controller.


I've thought about that but I kinda like how the electronic control works. It's kinda nice to have a smart trans;)

Quote from: daboss351;209907
go to FordvsChevy.com
talk to a guy named silverfox
knows his transmissions and builds and sells performance parts for them. he will have all the info you need


I've talked to him on the clickclick racing forums before. I'm thinking I should start a thread on there about this.


Any more input on this guys? Good vs. bad idea? Go for it I want to know what you guys think.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: daboss351 on March 19, 2008, 10:24:34 PM
Kid i know from FvC has it in his mark 7, he LOVES the trans
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CougarSE on March 19, 2008, 10:28:58 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;209913

Any more input on this guys? Good vs. bad idea? Go for it I want to know what you guys think.

Its a good idea. 

Get a 4R70W out of a later model v6 mustang, 99+.  That transmission is stronger than your current AOD.  Do the mods I mentioned and enjoy.  In your situation you will gain many things.  MAF (something you should have already done), a better transmission and transmission shift point tune ability.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: 88BlueBird on March 20, 2008, 12:44:47 PM
It really depends how much money you want to spend. Doing a rebuild with your current AOD, using a 4R70W gearset would be the cheapest and still be plenty strong. With a shift kit and hi-rev govenor your AOD shift points could be greatly improved. Plus, the trans would still be a drop in. If my AOD goes any time soon, I will probably go this route.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: GrannysBird on March 20, 2008, 07:01:03 PM
I'd say swap to a 4r70 if you can swing it, otherwise just throw the 4r70 gears in your aod and call it done (if it's a 89 or newer aod that is). 87-88 had a not so good output shaft that doesn't get enough fluid to something something higher rpms something burn up your transmission. I don't know what it doesn't get fluid too, but I am replacing mine anyway with a newer stlye hardened output shaft to avoid that problem.

I'm guessing here, but I think that in the long run you would have a a cheeper solution with the 4r70 because:

1. you get to keep lockup on the highway and it will still be reliable

2. Programmable shift points means you don't have to spend a bunch on a manual valvebody or shiftkit.

3. better 1st and 2nd ratios over aod.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: Masejoer on March 20, 2008, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: GrannysBird;210094
87-88 had a not so good output shaft that doesn't get enough fluid to something something higher rpms something burn up your transmission.


<87 had this issue. 88+ had the revised oiling.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: t.birdsc on March 21, 2008, 12:21:15 AM
Quote from: CougarSE;209920
Its a good idea. 

Get a 4R70W out of a later model v6 mustang, 99+.  That transmission is stronger than your current AOD.  Do the mods I mentioned and enjoy.  In your situation you will gain many things.  MAF (something you should have already done), a better transmission and transmission shift point tune ability.


x2
4r70w all the way:evilgrin:
You would need a core 4r70w gear set for the parts anyway, so why not use that one to begin with. It already has the mods. The question after that would be do you want to go manual shift valve body or electronic shift?
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CougarSE on March 21, 2008, 02:08:39 AM
I see late model 3.8 4R70W's on craigslist in my area all the time for next to nothing.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: slowfoxbird on March 22, 2008, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;209908
Nope sure isn't..  To run a 4r70w with an AODE controller you have to change the Torque Converter Solenoid and the valve body controller with units out of an AODE.  After those modifications it will work.  If you don't it will burn the EEC up.


?????  The only difference I can think of is '98 and up.  The AODEs, and early 4Rs had the same internal WIRE harness and bulkhead connector, and the '98 and newer 4Rs have a printed circuit internal harness with seperate bulkhead connector that uses less pins.  The TCC solenoid is different, but the EPC is as well, this is what keeps you from using the wrong internal harness.  You can stick a late model 4R into an older car, it wont burn the controller up, it just wont work.  That is why the Baumann site has 2 different conrollers.

On the subject of AOD to 4R swap, if you have the extra cash, do it, I cant wait to do it to mine!
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: shame302 on March 22, 2008, 08:58:48 PM
T56 swap...
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on March 24, 2008, 05:08:52 PM
http://www.becontrols.com/products/electronicscat.htm

Hook that box up with the harness and enjoy your electronically controlled trans.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 24, 2008, 09:04:10 PM
I'm still on the fence on this. The AOD in the car is staying this year. I plan on doing the trans next spring. I have to decide if I really want to do the 4R70W or go with a built up AOD. I've found a shop that all the local 5.0 AOD Mustang guys go to. He's very good and builds a good product. It depends on my financial situation (ie if I have enough free money left over after bills, saving ect) as to what I'm going to go with. I'd love to go with a 4R70W but to get it done the way I want it (higher stall torque converter, VB mods) it will cost more than an AOD. But  I want my electronic trans lol.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on March 24, 2008, 11:45:19 PM
Well, A good way to get an electric trans is to swap in a 4.6L+Trans, right? :burnout:
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 25, 2008, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: danzajax;210708
Well, A good way to get an electric trans is to swap in a 4.6L+Trans, right? :burnout:


Why would I want a pos 4.6 (well except the dohc 4.6 from the 03-04 Cobra those are nice) when I've got a 5.0 HO? ;)
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: jncocowboyx on March 26, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: danzajax;210633
http://www.becontrols.com/products/electronicscat.htm

Hook that box up with the harness and enjoy your electronically controlled trans.


that's effin' cool. :hick:
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: jncocowboyx on March 26, 2008, 07:00:35 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;210775
Why would I want a pos 4.6 (well except the dohc 4.6 from the 03-04 Cobra those are nice) when I've got a 5.0 HO? ;)


AMEN!!!
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: slowfoxbird on March 27, 2008, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;210775
Why would I want a pos 4.6 (well except the dohc 4.6 from the 03-04 Cobra those are nice) when I've got a 5.0 HO? ;)


Hmmm for the simple fact that it is way more efficient per cubic inch at producing power than the 5.0 ever thought about being.  That is especially true if you get a 99+ 4.6 with the PI heads.  The only thing a 5.0 has going for it is that they are cheap as hell to work on and get parts for.
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 27, 2008, 11:37:03 PM
Yeah but I like low end torque ;)
Title: 4R70W swap
Post by: GrannysBird on March 29, 2008, 01:13:56 AM
In the next few weeks I'll have a built AOD installed in my car (once my parts get here and my mechanic gets back from vacation) with all the goodies. And if you wanted a demo something could probably be arranged, our cars are pretty similar except for the fact that you have gt-40p's (stock heads for now:mad: ). Taking a spin in mine would give you a pretty good baseline for comparison.

Anyway there's plenty of time until next spring for you to make up your mind.