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Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 05:40:26 PM

Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 05:40:26 PM
I am going to go look at a 302 that a guy wants out of his garage.He only wants $100.00 for it.all I know is that it came out of a 1977 vehicle.what info should I look for on the engine to see if it will go in my 1983 Tbird?
If I end up getting it,I will be asking you guys for alot of advice on what will be involed in getting this engine installed in my bird.
first off,I am not looking to make this a race car,just a nice street car.I would really like to use the tranny I have now (C5).any thoughts on this?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: 84 Fila on August 28, 2007, 05:48:10 PM
If ya need man, I got a spair AOD layin around somewhere I can give ya. As for 77' motor, it's flat tappet. Probaly hit or miss just about what a CFI motor would be 140HP/220? TQ. Not bad and  if it's carbed, then you just need a duraspark box and alittle work to drop it in. I'll help in any way I can
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 28, 2007, 05:50:09 PM
You could use the C5, I'm not sure of the reliability of that transmission behind a V8 but it would bolt up.  More than likely you will have to change the oil pan and pickup to a fox style pan.. 

Now if you want to spend $300 I know where a couple of complete explorer motors are if you are willing to drive.. Low miles... Gt40p heads.. would make a very nice street engine.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 06:13:45 PM
I'll get back to you guys on this.I am going out the door to go look at it. I will bring pics back.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 08:41:05 PM
ok I took some pics and have the number on the block and intake.any info you guys can give me from this would be great.

number on lower left side of block-C90E-6015-c

number on front of block near water pump-9H25Y

number on intake-see pic

I do plan on having this rebuilt,just wanted your thought wether this motor would be a good start?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 08:41:59 PM
few more
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 28, 2007, 08:45:03 PM
few pics of a 351 that this guy is dropping in a 62 fairlane
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: 84 Fila on August 28, 2007, 09:32:59 PM
Are we sure the 302 is in fact a 302? According to my ford interchange book, that is a 69-70 351
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 28, 2007, 09:44:43 PM
Part numbers that start with:
C= 60's
D= 70's
E= 80's
F= 90's

It's a 60's block. If it's a 302 or a 351 I couldn't tell ya. Flat tappet cams aren't so bad if you're going carbed. If you want a simple street car I'd just go carbed for your '83. I would upgrade the trans though. You could use an AOD or if you don't need the OD band and want durability go with a C4.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 28, 2007, 09:50:18 PM
That intake is a 289/302 part number.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 28, 2007, 09:54:52 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;172896
That intake is a 289/302 part number.


Well then it has to be a 302. A 302 intake won't fit on a 351W:hick:
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 28, 2007, 09:56:02 PM
Early 351s have extra bolts at ends of the intake...

It's a '69 302...
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 28, 2007, 09:56:05 PM
Absolutely not a 351.. Look...
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 28, 2007, 09:59:31 PM
Yea I was gonna mention the block height, but I don't know how to make them purdy red lines....:hick:
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 28, 2007, 10:00:25 PM
Yep 302. You can really see the difference with the red lines. Thanks:D
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: 84 Fila on August 28, 2007, 10:07:19 PM
Sorry guys, the book is wrong then. I was going directly out of that, and it lists the block as 351. I stand corrected.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 28, 2007, 10:08:33 PM
C90e-b  = 351
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: atariman on August 28, 2007, 11:04:43 PM
Is the guys saying that it runs?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: the_intimidator03 on August 29, 2007, 04:52:40 AM
well 1. you can get spacers to fit a 289/302 intake on a 351W.  however it appears to me that the thermostate housing would be correct for a 289/302 vs the 351W as shown in the picture of the purdy motor for the fairlane
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 08:36:36 AM
I wonder if the heads carry a C8 or C9 part number?  If they do then you might have a nice set of heads there.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 29, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: CougarSE;173032
I wonder if the heads carry a C8 or C9 part number?  If they do then you might have a nice set of heads there.

Most of those have good combustion chambers that give 10.0 comp ration with flat top pistons('60s engines cut compression on the base engines with a big dish in the piston)... Unfortunately for making real HP, ALL factory 289/302/5.0 heads suck(some worse than others)... None ever had valves as large as the 351... With some port work, they can be made to flow fairly well...
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 29, 2007, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: atariman;172961
Is the guys saying that it runs?


yes it does run.

After thinking this over for awhile,wouldnt I be better of just buying a long block and finish it off vs. basically buying a old 302 block and having it rebuilt?..........does this sound logical or not?

I am asking you guys because alot of you have been thru this already.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 04:12:28 PM
Or drive down my  and buy an explorer engine for $300 that has decent miles on it.  Throw an oil pan on it and a set of headers a carb and intake and go!
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: 84 Fila on August 29, 2007, 04:14:29 PM
^ What I plan on doing for my next motor.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 29, 2007, 04:16:53 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;173090
Or drive down my  and buy an explorer engine for $300 that has decent miles on it.  Throw an oil pan on it and a set of headers a carb and intake and go!



Cougar can I see some pics of this engine? and how much $ am I looking at to makes this engine "turn key" ?


Just to let you know,I do plan on making what ever engine I use,carbed......no EFI for me.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: 84 Fila on August 29, 2007, 04:20:02 PM
If it's an explorer long bock, you'd need a carbed intake, a carb, alittle work to convert to a low pressure fuel pump, an igniton box and then just some free time. If you wanted headers and exhaust thats a bit more. I converted my car to carb for under $300 worth of used parts. The only thing I spent big on was the exhaust, which was about $450-ish.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 29, 2007, 04:25:30 PM
Hmmmmmmm,Now I am trying to decide if this engine is more important that re-finishing the bathroom for the wife. :D
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 04:32:10 PM
Actually your car being an 83 v6 car should already have a carb.  These engines are at a local junkyard so I don't have any pictures.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: V8Demon on August 29, 2007, 05:07:10 PM
If you plan on doing up a motor that will see gobs of power (500 HP+) I would without a doubt do that bad boy up.  While the new blocks can handle 500 HP the older ones are somewhat beefier (and heavier) and they are added insurance provided th block is in good condition without signs of core shift.

 The only drawback-if you see it as one- is the flat tappet configuration.  That's nothing a retrofit set of lifters can't fix.  Or you could have the block machined to accept the stock style hydraulic lifters.

What are your overall goals?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: *MAYHEM* on August 29, 2007, 05:11:24 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;173090
Or drive down my and buy an explorer engine for $300 that has decent miles on it. Throw an oil pan on it and a set of headers a carb and intake and go!

What pistons are in those?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 05:13:38 PM
Hypereutectic pistons..
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: *MAYHEM* on August 29, 2007, 05:23:38 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;173113
Hypereutectic pistons..

Valve reliefs?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 05:25:05 PM
Yesir.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: V8Demon on August 29, 2007, 05:25:05 PM
yes.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: *MAYHEM* on August 29, 2007, 05:26:01 PM
Cool.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 29, 2007, 05:46:30 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;173111
What are your overall goals?


THis is what I would like to end up with in the end.

1) carbed engine

2) headers

3) HP to be a little more than a stock 302

4)Tranny that will hold up to HP

5)exhaust to exit just in front of rear wheels

I am basically looking for advice on the best way to achieve a FRESH motor in this car (buy a fresh long block and do the rest myself,buy a old tired motor and have it rebuilt.......etc.)

I can install a intake,carb,headers,ignition system......etc. its the internals that I cant do.

I just need advice on the best route to take to get me there.

I am not real concerned about my tranny (c5) blowing out,if it blows out,then I will go get a c4 and put it in.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: softtouch on August 29, 2007, 06:04:10 PM
Quote from: CougarSE;173098
Actually your car being an 83 v6 car should already have a carb.  These engines are at a local junkyard so I don't have any pictures.


It should be EEC-III with CFI unless it was built for export.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: CougarSE on August 29, 2007, 06:17:31 PM
I didn't think the V6's came with the EEC-III system.. only the V8's.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: V8Demon on August 29, 2007, 06:22:13 PM
Brand New bare blocks $500

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SES%2D5%2D60%2D04%2D200&autoview=sku

Stroker rotating assembly with standard size bore rings/pistons:

with C-4 flexplate
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SES%2D5%2D60%2D04%2D200&autoview=sku

with AOD flexplate
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP%2DB16422LA000&autoview=sku

Each listed at $995

The top end is what you want to make of it, but IF I were to go brand new on a budget stroker shortblock, this is the way I'd do it.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 29, 2007, 11:06:10 PM
Well I had a roller 302 rebuilt for my T-bird (bored .030 over, new pistons, rods, cleaned up crank, Comp cam, GT40P heads ect) and it cost me ~$1,900. I had the machiene shop assemble it because, well, he gave me a two year warranty on it if I let him do it:hick:
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on August 30, 2007, 04:31:15 PM
thanks for the replies all.

thunderjet and Demon double thanks to you guys.that is the type of info I was looking for.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on March 29, 2008, 08:16:30 PM
I picked up my engine today and now I will be getting into the swap soon.

I will be looking for advice as I do this,so I am warning you now,there will be some real stupid questions being ask.

the last two picks are of the engine running on the "generic" engine stand.
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: daboss351 on March 29, 2008, 08:17:54 PM
you ran it on that stand? hahahahaha redneck riggin'!!
Nice motor!!
t-5 bell housing?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on March 29, 2008, 09:15:07 PM
Quote from: daboss351;211556
you ran it on that stand? hahahahaha redneck riggin'!!
Nice motor!!
t-5 bell housing?


hey,that stand is made from the finest wood money can buy (knotty pine)

C-4 bellhousing
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: daboss351 on March 29, 2008, 10:35:55 PM
huh i didnt know the c4 had a removable bell housing
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: V8Demon on March 30, 2008, 12:19:25 AM
Specs? 

What headers are those?
Title: $100.00 302
Post by: Chooglin on March 30, 2008, 08:19:48 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;211590
Specs? 

What headers are those?


this is a quote from the builder


"ok Choog went with a .504 lift intake and exhaust, 110 centerline, 220 duration both intake and exhaust @ .050 lift. Cam is being ground (out of stock) should be delivered @ the 27th of Dec. All the valves have come in. Will wait to get the valve springs with the cam before the heads are reassembled. Block went .030 over on the cylinders. Crank is @ .010 under spec may have to go to .020 under. If it goes under that, we will have to get another crank. Well, I would prefer not to use a crank that goes under .020, but is still usable down to .030.
Rods have been reconditioned/resized. Pistons have been pressed to the rods with new wrist pins.
Calculated HP 320 @ 5800 rpm and 325 ftlbs of torque @ 4500 rpm. Should be close the PC dyno is a little off."


hedders

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HED%2D88380&view=32&N=700+4294839039+4294908331+4294840126+4294925044 (http://"http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HED%2D88380&view=32&N=700+4294839039+4294908331+4294840126+4294925044")
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