Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Romeo2k on July 19, 2007, 11:07:50 PM
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 19, 2007, 11:07:50 PM
Ugh... Well i went out to start the 'bird, As it has it has been sitting too long without being started. And she wont start for me. :punchballs:
She just does a "click-click" noise when you go to start it. I changed out the starter relay and no change, The negative battery cable has been changed out as well, And all connections are tight and secure. I'm getting plenty of power, No drains when i try to start or anything (I even hooked up a battery charger to extra juice it).
I'm not sure what to check next... From the driver side turning the key myself it sounded like the clicking was coming from behind the starter relay, near the firewall area? Hard to tell though as i was at the drivers side turning the key myself. :hick:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: daboss351 on July 19, 2007, 11:13:43 PM
starter or starter solinoid i would guess
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 19, 2007, 11:19:55 PM
Starter
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 19, 2007, 11:25:54 PM
:punchballs:
I was hoping for almost anything but that... I'm headed to the JY tomorrow, I guess ill grab one off the 83 if it's still there, Hopefully it's not too hard to get off a JY Car?
Anything else i should check before i dig into the Starter?
I'm also having a few electrical qwuirks, I'm not sure what's causing them. When i do random things like play with the parking brake, Or play with the ignition, My check engine and Battery lights turn on and off randomly on my cluster. And my overhead light and floor foot lights are at a constant on...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 19, 2007, 11:27:37 PM
get one off a newer 5.0. If your going to do it go with a mini starter.
As for the electrical stuff I don't know for sure but I woudl guess a ground
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 20, 2007, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;162051
get one off a newer 5.0. If your going to do it go with a mini starter.
As for the electrical stuff I don't know for sure but I woudl guess a ground
Ok, theres a 5.0 fox cougar and the '83 Was a 5.0 if it's still in there. Any other cars with interchangeable starters? Theres like 3-4 MN12 T-Birds in there right now, 1 MN12 Cougar and a ton of Escorts.
Didn't make it in today, Since it's pouring rain all of the sudden... >.<
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 20, 2007, 04:51:45 PM
I got mine from a 5.0 explorer. Here is a writeup on coolcats for ya to read. Here ya go (http://"http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/starter.html")
Enjoy
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 20, 2007, 05:02:29 PM
Thanks, I'm having problems accessing coolcats lately though... Is it just me?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 20, 2007, 05:16:23 PM
Worked fine for me. I'll help ya out a bit: For All 1983-88 Cougars and Thunderbirds
Thanks to Ed for contributing this article.
In 1989 Ford began using a newer style starter called the “Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction” starter. It weighs half as much as the old style starter (the old one is about 30 lbs, and this one is about 15!), provides more torque, and requires less juice to operate it. This upgrade is a win/win situation all around. The PMGR starter can be had purchased from your local salvage yard for as low as $20. Here’s a list of potential donor vehicles for the better starter:
Vehicles that use the PMGR starter compatible with the 3.8L, 5.0L, and 5.8L:
(1996-92) Ford Bronco 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L w/ AT (2002-92) Ford E Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L (1998-92) Ford F Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L (1991-90) Ford LTD Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0L (2003-94) Ford Mustang 3.8L (1995-92) Ford Mustang 5.0L (1997-90) Ford Thunderbird 3.8L, 5.0L (1992-90) Lincoln Mark VII 5.0L (1990) Lincoln Town Car 5.0L (1997-89) Mercury Cougar 3.8L, 5.0L Vehicles that use the PMGR starter compatible with the 2.3L:
(1993-92) Ford Mustang 2.3L (2002-91) Ford Ranger 2.3L, 2.5L (1999-94) Mazda Pickup 2.3L, 2.5L You could also purchase this new from your local auto parts store. Just give them the year and model and engine size of one of the above examples. New, they range from about $85 US and up.
There is one wiring change that must be made for the new starter to work on your car. Here’s a picture of that change (http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/images/starter2.jpg)
Hope ya don't mine Eric
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 20, 2007, 05:33:46 PM
Thanks man. After you said it was working fine, I played around with my router and modem and now the sites loading fine, Router has been giving me problems lately. >.<
Anyway, I'm definatley gonna hit up one of the 90-93 MN12 Birds at the yard for one of these.
BTW, How hard was it to get the old starter out Fila? One of my manuals was talking about having to jack the car up, Then unbolt an engine rail or something, Then raise the engine/tranny up enough to get clearance to remove the thing...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 20, 2007, 08:46:52 PM
You'll have to jack the car up to get yourself underneath it (remember to support it with stands!) but that's it. Otherwise you'll need a ratchet with a long extension or two to reach the top starter bolt. After that it's pretty simple. No other removals necessary.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 20, 2007, 10:21:33 PM
I have done it layin on my back under the car with out even lifting the car but I'm a skinny little thing. Like Brian said you need some extentions or if you get creative, remove the passanger wheel and reach throught the strut tower to get the top bolt. I used 2 2" ententions and a deep well 1/2" to get the bolts that was as I didn't have enought ot go by the motor mount. It's not hard, should take less then an hour to change out.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Haystack on July 20, 2007, 10:52:03 PM
its a shiznit load easier on a 5.0 then a 3.8. Unless you have done it on a 3.8 you cant talk.
I could do mine on my 86 5.0 in 10 mins. the 3.8 sucks. I broke a motor mount and only got one bolt all the way tight... and that took about 5 hours...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 20, 2007, 11:06:47 PM
:punchballs: :punchballs: :punchballs:
Well i'll be getting the starter off a 5.0 at the yard then, And then sounds like the real fun begins with my car...
I'm gonna see if schucks or somewhere does starter testing before i install the "new" one.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 21, 2007, 12:03:55 AM
Napa and autozone both do the testing IIRC
As for teh 3.8 I have never done it, only on a 5.0
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 21, 2007, 12:16:41 AM
whats the point of a mini starter anyway,,, doesnt that just put another critical elecrical part down under the car that use to be on the fender well?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 21, 2007, 12:22:45 AM
Why. I still have a soloniod o my fender, just more of a wire holder now. I don't see a problem with it, and I will swear by mine
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 21, 2007, 09:39:48 AM
Quote from: 84 Fila;162313
Why. I still have a soloniod o my fender, just more of a wire holder now. I don't see a problem with it, and I will swear by mine
wire holder,,,,,,,, is your solenoid on your fender well functional and required for you to be able to start your engine?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 21, 2007, 10:28:34 PM
Just got back from the junkyard, Started raining again. :punchballs:
Anyway, Both MN12 T-Birds had the engine and Tranny missing, As did the 87 XR7 i got my seats from. And i wasnt even gonna bother with the heritage starter, As the car was in the middle of 3 inches of water this time...
They did get in a '93 XR7 though, Had the mini starter but it looked original and really worn, The car had 220k miles on it. I did come home with the entire extra cable assembly that goes to the relay though. :hick:
I'll check back next week or something for a starter, sigh.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 22, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Ugh, I had to go back today and look for my crescent wrench i apparently left... No sign of it already, And at the register a guy said someone stole his whole tool bag!
Anyway, I looked at EVERY ford they had for a compatible mini-starter, And any that would have worked were already gone or the old style.
So i ended up buying the 1 i found yesterday off the 93 XR7, That i was leary about since it had such high mileage. I'll be taking it over to autozone to have it tested out soon, I think they are closed tonight. :punchballs:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 24, 2007, 02:29:20 AM
Got it tested! First round it made a large spark and scared the younger employee running the test, But the screen said it passed.
So he grounded it better and ran it again, He said it sounded a little grindy but it will start a car (Passed second time also).
Now if the rain ever goes away, I need to get to the hard part... Removal and Install on my car. :punchballs:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 02:18:12 AM
*Sigh*
Well the rain cleared up today, So i went out and played with the starter.
Wasn't as hard to get out as was being said. :hick: Just the upper bolt was very awkward to reach, I managed it by taking the drivers front wheel off, And noodling my arms through with a rachet.
While the starter was hanging under the car i grounded it and hit the ignition, It spun up no problem...
I went ahead and continued to install the "new" mini starter anyway.
Only to find that i think i have bigger problems... The engine won't turn...
Starter works fine, Mini better than the old, But still cant turn the engine.
I'm kind of worried now... Dad says to remove the plugs to release compression, And then turn the engine by hand, I'll try that tomorrow.
Any other suggestions in the meantime?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 25, 2007, 09:28:17 AM
dads suggestion sounds logical,,,, although you wont have compression on every piston,, just a couple at any given moment.
would you happen to "not" have the metal covers on the lower part of the bell housing? something might be up in there binding the flywheel.
might as well remove the valve covers and see if a pushrod is lying off to the side. check for broken valve spring (s) also.
if its a transmission issue , you really cant tell until its separated from the engine then retest to see if the motor spins,,,,highly unlikely but possible the torque converter is jacked up or something trans related.
if you turn the crank and the whole car moves,, something in the trans is hosed. most likely you will find collapsed lifters or something valve train related. If your lucky and it turns after you remove the plugs,,, and find nothing wrong,,, write it off as "FM",,,,,,,,,,,"f'ing magic"
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on July 25, 2007, 04:48:15 PM
If it cranks with the plugs out, see if any liquid blows out of any of the plug holes. you may have coolent filling one of the cylinders and hydraulically locking the engine.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 25, 2007, 04:53:19 PM
This could be easier then you think. When you turn the key forward it doesn't turn over right. You have to alter alittle wiring but it's not hard
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 06:04:11 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Ill go test them out!
What kind of wiring fila? I've done the wiring conversion for the mini starter already if thats what you mean.
When i turn the key now it activates the starter and relay, fuel pump and such. But when i hold it trying to start it doesnt do anything else but drain the power (Interior lights and clock start to dim), And if i hold too long it starts smoking from the batt terminals.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 25, 2007, 06:12:57 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;163383
Thanks for the suggestions, Ill go test them out!
What kind of wiring fila? I've done the wiring conversion for the mini starter already if thats what you mean.
When i turn the key now it activates the starter and relay, fuel pump and such. But when i hold it trying to start it doesnt do anything else but drain the power (Interior lights and clock start to dim), And if i hold too long it starts smoking from the batt terminals.
you have a short somewhere, or the positive side on the starter is grounding out on something.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 06:31:50 PM
Hmm... I'll look into that too, Thanks.
The battery doesnt fully drain, the lights just increasingly dim as you hold the key in the start position until it starts smoking (only did it till it smoked once, Looked like it was the positive cable that was smoking).
I think i do have a ground problem somewhere though, As my overhead/dome light and floor lights are at a constant on. I do have quite a bit of things apart in the interior and such, But nothing that should be causing the lights to stay on as far as i know.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 08:32:20 PM
well i removed one plug, and manually cranked the engine, It moves freely.
i have a feeling something electricaly bad is going on, I have one of those auto charging boxes hooked up to the battery, And today it's pegging the max 15 amp mark and making ticking noises in the charger.
And also, I just touched the starter, And it's BURNING hot...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 25, 2007, 08:47:27 PM
Same thing mine did. I replaced the starter with another mini for me and it stopped the hot starter and wire thing. Not saying thats the problem but it helped mine. As for not starting I duno. It it turning over and trying to fire at all?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 08:59:15 PM
hmm...
Well one of the attempts it sounded like it tried to crank for sec but then stopped.
Otherwise it's just been doing the same: where i can hear it initiate the fuel pump, The starter and or relay kicks and clicks and then nothing happens as the key is held in the start position, except the clock screen goes to blank... But the battery diagnostic light on the cluster stays lit until i release.
More recently its sounding like the fuel pump is pumping or trying to pump (doing something) when i hold the key in start position, Thats about it.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 25, 2007, 09:28:02 PM
Try checking all grounds and all electrical connections would be my guess. I duno what else it would really be.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: xr7cat on July 25, 2007, 09:43:45 PM
have uninstalled and reinstalled the mini stater, you might have it in there too tight or forgot a ground on the starter itself
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 25, 2007, 10:42:47 PM
Progress!
I played with the batt and starter connnections, I think i had the starter cables backwards. Now the starter isnt heating up, And she's trying to turn over!
Problem is she still can't... She goes rurr and turns just a lil bit then stops and my battery seems to drain.
Also! My constant on of the interior lights is fixed, Dunno what fixed it, heh.
I'm gonna go play with the grounds some more, And see if i can get her motor goin'. :D
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Prototype Services on July 25, 2007, 11:21:03 PM
I may not have all your sumptoms exactly right, but this is starting to sound like my dad's camaro motor years ago. He had removed the hood scoop to have it repainted, and had one of thoses stupid foam-top aircleaners. Rained a little that night, and next day I told him to pull the plugs before he tried to crank it. He didn't. Called me and told me it tried to crank but then stopped after about one revolution. He replaced the battery, then replaced the starter, then had it towed to a garage. Motor would not turn over with a flywheel wrench. Turned out he had gotten a little rain in one cylinder and bent a connecting rod with the starter when he tried to crank it. I don't know if there is any chance you have leaked coolant or even lots of condensation into a cylinder, but it's possible. I would double check and make sure the motor will physically turn over before anything else. Then chase down any electrical or starter problems.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 26, 2007, 12:07:33 AM
Sounds like you still have some sort of short/drain somewhere. It might be failing to turn over because the short drained the battery.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 26, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
Good news! I thoroughly cleaned the batt contacts, Hooked up the charger box for some additional juice, And switched out the relay again for a newer one i picked up at the junkyard. Looks like she is trying really hard to start now! I've gotten up to 2 full slowww rotations before she stopped turning.
During this whole mess i wasn't paying attention to the gas meter, Which is on low, So i need to pick up some gas and see if she will growl for me! And i'll continue to look for shorting and grounding problems. If it's a bent rod... I'm gonna scream. :flame:
Thank you so much for all the advice, Tips, and help through this, It has helped a lot!
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 26, 2007, 12:57:23 AM
Give the battery a good, long charge and see where it takes you. One theory at a time
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 26, 2007, 11:56:30 PM
I let it charge for about 18-20 hours and it did a fairly peppy but still slow 3 rotations before it stopped.
I went and got 4 gallons of gas, And still no change. I have a feeling theres something wrong with the fuel system now. >.<
After putting the gas in there was no change on the gas gauge, And after trying to start it a bunch of times, A blue'ish white smoke started coming from behind the drivers rear tire.
I can still hear the fuel pump initiating though, But i'm not getting and squirts out of the fuel injectors...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 27, 2007, 12:04:28 AM
the motor turns over slow? sounds more like the timing is too far advanced, a bad battery, or a bad starter. putting more gas in the tank isnt going to make it spin over any faster.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 27, 2007, 12:09:52 AM
hrm, Well the battery is new, Starter could be faulty... Dunno about the timing.
Isn't it supposed to squirt some fuel from the injectors when you try and crank the engine? And what's with the smoke from the rear? Am i pushing the fuel pump too hard trying to get it to start?
My spark is fine, I checked my grounds again and they seem ok at the front, Engine moves freely, Rremoved valve covers and inspected and everything looks fine in there.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
Alittle. Try with starting fluid but keep back. I'd bet timing. This is starting to sound like my car.... and I came to it was the timing chain. Don't mean to puch the " oh shiznit" button, but maybe.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 27, 2007, 01:02:20 AM
Wait smoke from the exhaust or smoke from the tank? If it's smoke from the tank fix it now before it ignites the gas vapors in the tank!!
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 01:07:54 AM
Somke from the ass... if it's black, means too much fuel
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 27, 2007, 01:16:01 AM
It was very light smoke, I could only really see it in the sunlight shining on it which made it looks blue'ish white. And i'm not sure exactly where it's coming from, It's coming from then drivers rear wheel well area, I do have some exhaust leaks though.
It would only do it when i tryed to start it too hard or too long. I've got a fire extinguisher out here just in case.
So it should be squirting from the fuel injectors when i turn the key? It's not... I did put a few drops of fuel in manually to see if it would do anything, it didn't.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 01:18:23 AM
Try a squirt of starting fluid. If it doesn't even try to fire, you have an issue
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 27, 2007, 03:28:53 AM
Don't have any, Really need to get some.
Update! I tweaked some more stuff and played around, And now she has tried to fire 3 times, But didn't make it.
she goes a fast rurr rurr rurr *car/engine jerks* and dies
Looks like the injectors are squirting, Just not as much as i thought they would be, So i'm not noticing it... I can smell it though. (Especially since the gasket around the carb? thinger is broken and leaking.
I'm pretty sure the smoke is coming from the exhaust, And the many holes in the pipe behind the rear wheel. :hick: Just didn't think anything would really be coming out of the exhaust without it running.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 04:15:34 AM
Replace the CFI gasket then. What exactly is broken, I didn't get that. The little cardboard spacer thing or the actual gasket. Remember ANY difference in the air fuel mixture will cause it to run like ass if it will run at all. If you played with any, check all vac lines.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 27, 2007, 05:08:15 AM
Looks like it's leaking from this: http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=NIE&MfrPartNumber=27707&PartType=520&PTSet=A " Vehicle: 1984 FORD THUNDERBIRD Engine: V6 3.8 Liter FI Throttle Body Mounting Gasket: Throttle Body Mounting Gasket"
It's going rurr rurr rurr clunk - dead Some kind of firing problem?... *sigh*
I'm done with it tonight, Ill give another good charge, It drains the battery the more i try and start it.
I've got the whole air cleaner assembly off, Is this gonna cause any problems?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 05:22:47 AM
Ok. The link doesn't work. Thats #1. As for the not starting, it could be spark or fuel related. If we are thinking the same thing is " cracked", then it is letting air in throwing off the fuel/air mixture and causing it to not fire. Timing could be off, or as stated before the whole timing chain may be gone like on mine. Air cleaner off, probaly not. Just cap the vac lines that go to it. Mine wasn't as touchy but who knows. Cap the lines and try it
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: ZondaC12 on July 27, 2007, 10:09:41 AM
A word about this "Mystery Smoke" lol
A would imagine weve all done this at least once, you crank it over, but let off the key just barely too soon and she doesnt rev right up. I did this once and heard nothing after the starter stopped and thought "dammit gotta do it again!!!" and I had almost a second to think this because suddenly I felt it shake and then it roared to life. So during that time it was firing, just slow, and then it spun up and got to idle real quick.
So yours was probably firing a little, but maybe slow enough where you didnt really hear anything, but enough to produce some smoke, which is going to move out back, especially if you crank it over again.
FILA--- look up 27707 on advance's website. The link worked for me, it just wanted my zip code. Then it brought me right to the part.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 27, 2007, 10:22:57 AM
Is that the about 1/4 spacer thing for the CFI or the gasket. If that is cracked, I would get another one soon. I'd also be willing to bet that thats why it's not starting, but trying to
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 28, 2007, 12:11:11 AM
She almost started up!
2 fast turns and went grunnttt and died, Then went back to trying to fire and draining the battery each attempt.
Here's a video from when i got up, I let the car charge while i slept and this was the first few turns since it had been charging. Video is from my Digital Camera so it isn't greatest quality... (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_c34feb77.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=c34feb77.flv) Lemme know if it doesn't work.
**Update: Apparently when i'm draining the battery trying to start it, I'm pushing it too hard, Not giving it enough time regenerate.
I was just out there cranking like 10-15 times and it tries to fire but can't, It does almost exactly what it does the first crank in the above video. rurr rurr-clunk *tries-but doesn't fire*
I'm suspecting spark or compression... The plugs, Boots, and Valve on the passenger side have not been changed or checked by me since i got the car, As it is a royal pita to reach them with all the stuff in the way (Metal Plumbing And what not).
2 out of 3 plugs on the drivers side were cracked/broken on the ceramic part when i checked them awhile ago, As well as filthy/oily, So i suspect the same for the passenger side.
And the valve cover on the passenger side was not bolted down tightly when i just recently checked, It had been leaking from it and i thought the gasket was broken, but it was just loose bolts. I assume it's just loose bolts on the passenger side as well. I've got some new plug wires to swap out, New plugs already on the drivers, And ready for passenger.
So i need to dig into this pita job here soon. Any other idea's of what be causing it not to fire?
And why do you think it's the timing chain Fila? I don't know much about the timing chain, But it didn't seem like something that would mess up easily when i was looking through my books.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on July 28, 2007, 05:37:03 PM
Forget about trying to start it for now. Lets get it to crank first.
1. Charge your battery overnight. After it has been off the charger for an hour, check the voltage. Should be around 12.5 volts if the battery is good.
2. Take the little wire with the push on connector off the side of the starter relay. Crank the engine by jumpering from the battery plus wire to the connector you just took the wire off of. This cranks the engine without the ignition. If it cranks freely the over-advanced timing may be the problem. This also cranks the engine without turning on the fuel pump and the injectors. No sense flooding the engine with fuel and diluting your oil during during these tests.
3. Bite the bullet and take[COLOR="red"] ALL [/COLOR]the plugs out. Not a big deal with the proper tools. 3/8" drive plug socket, long extensions and a universal for getting the passenger side front out. Turn the engine over at least two revolutions with a wrench on the crank shaft. No binds? Crank it with the starter using the jumper as in step 2. Does it crank freely?
Let us know what you see and we will take it from there.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 29, 2007, 12:02:01 AM
Quote from: softtouch;164097
Forget about trying to start it for now. Lets get it to crank first.
1. Charge your battery overnight. After it has been off the charger for an hour, check the voltage. Should be around 12.5 volts if the battery is good.
2. Take the little wire with the push on connector off the side of the starter relay. Crank the engine by jumpering from the battery plus wire to the connector you just took the wire off of. This cranks the engine without the ignition. If it cranks freely the over-advanced timing may be the problem. This also cranks the engine without turning on the fuel pump and the injectors. No sense flooding the engine with fuel and diluting your oil during during these tests.
3. Bite the bullet and take[COLOR="red"] ALL [/COLOR]the plugs out. Not a big deal with the proper tools. 3/8" drive plug socket, long extensions and a universal for getting the passenger side front out. Turn the engine over at least two revolutions with a wrench on the crank shaft. No binds? Crank it with the starter using the jumper as in step 2. Does it crank freely?
Let us know what you see and we will take it from there.
I'll get on this soon, It's getting dark now and the car is in the backyard. :punchballs: I may just end up out there with a bunch of floodlights though, I'm really anxious to get the car started up.
Isn't the engine trying to crank already? Isn't that what's it doing when the fan is spinning?
And i already tryed jumpering from the relay the other night and it did turn the engine. :hick:
Also, I've had to replace the little "disconnect" thing that is attached to a smaller gauge secondary wire coming from the negative battery cable (Corrosion), Didn't know what it was for at first, But after touching the wires together i noticed it was making the fuel pump initiate. So i disconnected it and tryed starting, and the engine still turned over.
So i'm pretty sure it's cranking... or trying to?
I'll post a new much peppier video of me trying to start here in a bit.
When the Fan stops, The Car/Engine Jerks, I'm not doing it.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on July 29, 2007, 12:54:41 AM
Yes it is trying to crank but it is struggling. I mean to crank freely without quickly discharging the battery. The small wire on the negative battery cable is the ground wire for the EEC.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 29, 2007, 01:06:51 AM
Quote from: softtouch;164163
Yes it is trying to crank but it is struggling. I mean to crank freely without quickly discharging the battery. The small wire on the negative battery cable is the ground wire for the EEC.
Ok, I wasn't sure what it was connected too, My negative battery cable came with a hacked up cheapie terminal connector on it when i t got it. It caused corrosion from sitting, And ran up through the lil' secondary wire, And when i tryed to disconnect the coupler attached to the wire, It actually snapped in half from the corrosion!... I've since picked up a brand new neg batt cable, And 3 of the couplers from the junkyard.
I need to go out and solder splice in a coupler though, It's aligator clipped together right now... Hence why i was able to disconnect and touch the wires together and here the fuel pump kick in. :hick:
I actually have 2 car chargers hooked up to the battery right now, I leave them on overnight as well... Both videos are when i get up and first crank the engine for the day after it's been charging overnight.
So do you think it is struggling because of spark or power drain/loss?
**Update Ok, I checked the voltage on the battery itself (Took off the charger). I'm getting a steady recovery average of 12.4-12.6volts, When i start the car it drops to about 9.5-10volts fro a split sec, Then recovers to 12.5'ish after it fails to start. With the charger i can get about 12.8volts.
I jumpered the 12v key on the relay like you said and it tryed to start as well.
I'll be out there in the dark messing around with it, I need to go buy plugs later... I had 3 Plat +4's i was gonna put on the passenger side when i got around to it... But apparently the auto parts guy gave me the wrong ones *sigh*. He gave me the ones for the '83 Cars (4459) I need 4469.
Anyway. Thanks so much everyone for the in depth help, My dad knows a bit about cars-But he knows mostly about older cars and engines, Doesn't care for the new stuff, The more junk you put on these cars, The more problems you end up with... he says hehe, He also works a lot and is very tired when he gets home. So i really am learning as i go...
**Update 2: Batts Actually up past 13.5volts in the time i left the charger on and was typing up the first update.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 29, 2007, 10:56:26 PM
since we are starting from scratch,,,,,,,,
also do you have spark (**must be nice and blue,,not orange),,,,,,,,,and,,,,,,,,,,40psi of fuel presure at the shradder valve?
just checking.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Prototype Services on July 30, 2007, 01:58:06 AM
You should do exactly as Softouch suggested and rule out a mechanical problem with the engine and forget about starting it. If you had any moisture in a cylinder, a broken ring, or something trying to prevent the crankshaft from rotating, you will have damaged the motor. Once you knew the motor would spin freely with no plugs, then worry about electrical issues, timing, etc. Make a list of things to do to diagnose a problem and then follow it. In my example, if my dad had pulled the plugs and cranked it, then re-installed the plugs, (an hour's time), it would have been undamaged and run fine. Instead, he was lazy, didn't want to fight the headers removing the plugs, and it cost him $1800 and a month without his Camaro. It also eventually cost him another $3000 when we replaced the motor a year later. It would never run right after the bent rod, and when it was sitting on the ground and the new motor in the car, we found the intake rubber end gaskets squeezed out and causing a vacuum leak. Same shop never found why it didn't run good. All I am saying, is do the least damaging thing first when doing any diagnostic. If you can rotate the engine several times with a wrench easily, then you know the starter will turn it if the starter is working correctly. After that, it is easier to discover why it won't start.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 30, 2007, 03:40:42 AM
Well, At tis point i'm kinda of going on you guys' Instructions on what to do-I'm pretty tapped.
I'm not all that knowledgeable about this stuff... yet, But as far as i can tell it's cranking freely. I seem to have good power from the battery and relay. I'm getting fuel. I'm able to crank it manaully without problems.
Spark... I'm not sure about... While i had my dad out there briefly he had me pull out plug boot 1-Put a plug in it and hold it up to the frame while he cranked it to see if there was spark, It had a small blue spark but only like a few times out of the many starts. Also i need to get some plugs and change out the passenger side.
I also need to tighten the valve cover on the passenger side, As it sounds like it leaking and loose as the drivers side was.
And i've found in another thread that wrong grounding might be the fix to all of this, So i need to check into this.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 01:19:11 AM
the intermittant spark usually points to either the module on the side of the distributor or the pickup/stator assembly down inside the distributor.
both are locally purchased,,,,, but you get what you pay for.
The little pickup device down in the distributor has a magnet on it and if debris is attached to it, your spark will be restricted just like if it were a set of points with burnt contact. attach a small magnet to a small screwdriver and probe down in there to collect any stuff (hairy looking stuff) that decides to stick to your screwdriver. If you cant get all of it,, use a bigger magnet. Dont stuff a magnet down in there cause you might damage the magnet on the pickup as far as its magnetic strength.
If your spark was weak looking,,, over gap a spare plug to .060 there abouts and with the help of darkness, see if its nice and blue and makes a complete arch.
either that or a coil going bad.
now a few questions you have to clear up for us/me,,,,cause i have a good memory........:D
did you do a mini starter conversion and if so, explain.
do you have the little slip on red wire hooked up on the starter relay on body near the battery?
on a side note,,,,,,,, and i dont suggest this but,,,,,,,,,,, if you were to happen to forget and not have the coil plug wire hooked up, and,, you cranked the car,, a good coil will jump a huge spark to the frame atleast 5'' away. This pretty much illiminates the distributor being a problem.
dont overthink this stuff, got spark got fuel got air with all three,, an engine will run.,perhaps not good but will run. ive only had one experience where i had all three items and still the car did not start but it was a rare instance not even note worthy.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 01:48:34 AM
Quote from: jcassity;164801
the intermittant spark usually points to now a few questions you have to clear up for us/me,,,,cause i have a good memory........:D
did you do a mini starter conversion and if so, explain.
Yes, First thing that everyone suspected was my starter... So went and hunted at the junkyard and brought home the only one i found that was left-Off a 93 XR7 3.8l (Also got the starter relay and starter cable setup from the same car and am using it).
Quote from: jcassity;164801
do you have the little slip on red wire hooked up on the starter relay on body near the battery?
Yes.
Quote from: jcassity;164801
on a side note,,,,,,,, and i dont suggest this but,,,,,,,,,,, if you were to happen to forget and not have the coil plug wire hooked up, and,, you cranked the car,, a good coil will jump a huge spark to the frame atleast 5'' away. This pretty much illiminates the distributor being a problem.
Hehe... I might forget about that soon...
Success! Kind of... Waiting forever for a reply of where to hook up the negative battery to the factory position on the engine block... I just went ahead and found a spot and tryed it. She's starting, But... She doesnt stay running. And when i step on the gas i hear a big WOOSH!, And she dies...? Then i have to spray in some starter fluid to get her to start up again (Pretty sure my spark is weak).
What's going on now? Gaskets?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 01:52:41 AM
New coil, and your timing is off. IIRC
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 02:02:07 AM
ok,, now its time to pull open that DIY Link of mine below and pick a subject,scroll down and read up on it.
DONT UNPLUG THE SPROUT CONNECTOR WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING OR REPLUG IT IN WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING>
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 02:08:45 AM
Quote from: 84 Fila;164812
New coil, and your timing is off. IIRC
Oh joy... Well the coil should be an easy replace, But i've never dealt with timing...
Quote from: jcassity;164814
ok,, now its time to pull open that DIY Link of mine below and pick a subject,scroll down and read up on it.
DONT UNPLUG THE SPROUT CONNECTOR WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING OR REPLUG IT IN WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING>
Any suggestions at which to start with?
The woosh is freaky... Instead of revving it just goes WOOOOSH and dies, Like it's deflating, heh.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 02:11:07 AM
Well, mine used to do that. Mine used to do exactly what yours did. I adjusted the timing, got that all squared away. Then I put new plugs, coil, and wires. It quit after that. But to me.. sounds like spark/timing issues. I'd listen to Scott, he helped ME to learn all this
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 02:18:15 AM
if you havent messed with the timing,, dont mess with it now. You always have a chance to finagle with it later on and learn what it does and such.
have you moved the timing?
if you have,, take a look at other peoples engines and eyeball which direction the TFI module is pointing , position yours like theirs.
generally, the tfi usually points directly towards the drivers headlamp,, that will get you in the ball park. Have it fine tuned ((PROPERLY)) afterwards.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 02:24:53 AM
As far as i know i haven't done anything to the timing, Or that would have changed the timing. I did manually crank the crankshaft due to earlier suggestions though, Would that have done anything do the timing?
And i was just out there trying it again, It needs just a tiny bit of starting fluid for a full start, Then after running for maybe 2 seconds i hear the woosh from the carb/passenger area and it dies.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 02:29:00 AM
I duno right now. It sounds like for the 2 sec's it's running directly off the starting luid. After thats gone it stalls out again. Scott, you got any idea's?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 02:35:56 AM
i know that motor inside and out,, as well as the cfi setup and the lower spacer ,,,,,,,,as well as the tricks that ****er pulls on you if the base plate gasket is hosed.
anyways,,,,,,read up on the diy link below and hunt down the section on cleaning the CFI base as well. your going to need to do that none the less since it is the 232 engine.
now here we go with ideas,,,,,,,,
it woshes,, so its time to verify spark.
again,,,,,,,if its not a strong nice blue to bluish white spark,, its time to look at that part of whats going on.
If you undo the little plastic cap on the fuel test area (shrader valve) after you just get done cranking,, poke the little needle in there and fuel should spray every fu%$ing where if you are getting fuel. If it dribbles out and you just got done cranking,, somethings up with fuel.
also,,,,,,, you did not undo and criss cross any plug wires did you?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 02:40:04 AM
Ok, I'll get on it.
And i have not changed the plugs on the passenger side yet... Still the same ones i got the car with.
Oughta be fun checking spark by myself, Everyone is sleeping around here, heh.
I do suspect the gasket at the carb/cfi base is broken or leaking.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 02:50:10 AM
Quote from: Romeo2k;164834
Ok, I'll get on it.
And i have not changed the plugs on the passenger side yet... Still the same ones i got the car with.
Oughta be fun checking spark by myself, Everyone is sleeping around here, heh.
I do suspect the gasket at the carb/cfi base is broken or leaking.
you can make the thin one (base plate spacer to intake) by hand using any old material from a cereal box to a note book back. the lower one is kina tricky. just take your time adn you will have a perfect one.
I only recommend one thing,,,,, lay the spacer atop a belt sander and sand it down flat cause im sure like everyone elses , its slightly warped. get er flat again on the side that faces the intake, make a gasket (its a pretty tricky one so an exacto or razor knife is applicable) and install with a thin layer of blue silicone.
there will be a ton of carbon buildup on the bottom of the spacer plate near the egr,, clean that up. there will be a ton of carbon buildup near the gold fitting on the rear driver side vac line fitting on the bottom of the CFI. clean that up as well.
Your next best bet if it does not start is to swap out the TFI,, if your spark still does not improve,, the pick up module is bad.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 02:58:48 AM
FWIW, I have a 3.8 CFI setup ( CFI unit, spacers, injecters) and a 3.8 dizzy with what I belive is a good pickup if you need one
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 03:04:45 AM
the pickup is tricky,, it works off magnetic lines of flux as the whatchamacallit thingamajig with the six fins pass thru the field. the TFI plugs into the bottom of it so its one or the other and sometimes both.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 03:07:44 AM
Schucks has/Can order both for under $10. :hick:
I did the coil spark test and here's the video: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_16b0cdc7.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=16b0cdc7.flv) near had to be touching the frame to spark... *Spark starts moving to the bottom of the screen, Bad filming. :hick:
And heres a py starting vid: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_28a54c68.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=28a54c68.flv) Fila's right, It only stays running off the starting fluid... I put in a tiny lil' squirt this run. *If you turn it up loud enough you can here it go woooshh
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 03:12:49 AM
For spark, I see blue-white. As for not running, I'm guessing again, fual or timing. Do you have a timing light you can test it with?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 03:17:13 AM
Nope, No timing light. :mad:
I forgot to check the shrader thinger, I'll go do that.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 03:25:27 AM
Quote from: jcassity;164832
If you undo the little plastic cap on the fuel test area (shrader valve) after you just get done cranking,, poke the little needle in there and fuel should spray every fu%$ing where if you are getting fuel. If it dribbles out and you just got done cranking,, somethings up with fuel.
also,,,,,,, you did not undo and criss cross any plug wires did you?
It doesnt jet stream out but it pours/waterfalls out.
And no, double checked that already. :hick:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 03:28:25 AM
Your not getting enough fuel pressure. If it's dribbling, it's not nearly enough. I belive it should be in the round about of 40 PSI
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 03:34:14 AM
it's not really dribbling, It just pours like if you poor a drink.
But yea, Looks like fuel injection is (one) of the problems.
I just manually put some gas in the carb intake thinger and it ran until it burned up the gas or whatever, Ran longer and stronger than with the starter fluid sprays.
So now the question is... Is the whiole CFI Setup needing to be replaced? Or is it something electrical/relay/injectors? Or is it the fuel pump?
I'm getting odd voltage readings from the fuel injectors power connector/s...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 03:36:12 AM
Well. I'll wait for scot to answer this one. But if your pressure is shiznit, my guess would be the fuel pump. Unless the regualter is serisouly wacked up.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 03:43:42 AM
Alright, Thanks a lot man!
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 03:44:58 AM
Double check my oppion, but I'd say that's the problem is something in one of the fuel pumps.
Anytime man, you ever need anything holler at me
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 04:24:56 AM
Yea, I'll go over my manuals and look into the fuel system. I hear a fuel pump initiate but isn't there 2 of them or something?
And i have a strong feeling the wooshing might be coming from pressure escaping from one of the fuel lines, I'll look into it.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on July 31, 2007, 05:25:27 AM
If pressure was escaping, you would have leaking gas. Yes, in 84 you had 2 pumps like me. A high pressure in line pump on the passanger side, in front of the rear wheel on the frame rail. You also have a low pressure " pusher" pump in tank.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 08:18:58 AM
Well i do smell gas when i start or try to start, I just figured it was from the injectors.
If i have to drop the tank and change out the internal pump... I'm gonna do this: :punchballs: :punchballs: :punchballs:
No idea when my fuel filter was last changed, So i think i should maybe look into doing that... I can easily here the external/rail pump when i turn the key, And i think i can hear the pump in the tank, But i'm not positive.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 32VFoxBird on July 31, 2007, 09:45:45 AM
sounds more like a vacuum leak to me. from the "whoosh" description.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on July 31, 2007, 10:47:38 AM
I'm really hoping that's all it is, I just need to find it... And would that cause fuel to not squirt out the injectors?
I'll get to work on it again later, Need some rest. I've got a compression gauge that goes up to 350 psi, And a random cheapie gauge that goes up to 50psi and such, So i'll check the pressure from the schrader and such later.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;164889
sounds more like a vacuum leak to me. from the "whoosh" description.
yeah, i didnt want to go there yet cause usually when it cracks, the car will idle high.
On your meter readings at the injectors, ignore them. All you really need to know is if the eec is removing and replacing the ground to each injector.
unhook each injector and rig up a little light bulb with socket and wire leads. I have a tiny bulb with the socket and wire leads hanging on my tool wall to do "blink tests" Just stuff the pos and neg wire up in each spot on the injector plug. Turn the key on and crank. The light bulb will blink each time the eec is programmed to supply and remove the ground.
to make your pump run full time in order to check the fuel presure,,,, find the eec test connector and ground the tan / light green wire. turn the key on and you should hear the fuel pump running. at this point you can also prob the shradder valve pin and reverify you have more than just a water fall of fuel presure.
too much starting fluid will burn up your valves and cause wierd detonation if you dont use it very very sparingly. if youve been through a whole can already,, your prob gonna want to check compression when this is all said and done.
a good fuel pump is a supercharge 3.8L fuel pump. its about 90 literes per hour while your stock bosch one is like only 60. It can be had at advance for about 45bux. You just have to mount it in your old pump assembly.
If your not backfiring,,Like a gun shot, then your not delivering too much fuel nore would i think your timing is off especially since you said you didnt move it.
My best guess here is that after a few cranks,, the pump has finally delivered enough fuel and the engine tries to start,, since its not enough or barely, the engine will try to start but it just aint getting enough fuel.
try to start the car with the fuel pump relay ground wiire (tan/light green) up at the eec connected to a nearby ground.
also, check the tps for less than a volt with the key on only at the green wire. now manually move the trottle linkage by hand slowly and watch your voltage increase smoothly up to about 4.5vdc. If you have an intermittant open in the TPS, you wont start. The tps is just a variable resistor.
anyway,, if you decide on the fuel pump,, please do a presure test first. 50% of the time, the little 3'' long fuel line on the pump assembly is cracked and the pump is just sitting there dumping fuel right back into the tank. You cant see this little 3'' hose cause its in the tank and a part of the fuel pump assembly.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on July 31, 2007, 10:56:45 AM
Quote from: Romeo2k;164899
I'm really hoping that's all it is, I just need to find it... And would that cause fuel to not squirt out the injectors?
I'll get to work on it again later, Need some rest. I've got a compression gauge that goes up to 350 psi, And a random cheapie gauge that goes up to 50psi and such, So i'll check the pressure from the schrader and such later.
dont use an air presure guage as a liquid presure guage. they are made internally different.
besides,, a water guage is fine, all you need is the fitting that connects to the shrader valve and whatnot. the whole / correct tool can be had cheap enough or you can borrow one.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 01, 2007, 11:01:44 AM
Ok, i'll run those tests now.
In the meantime, Heres a startup vid i just did: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_bc1b3de6.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=bc1b3de6.flv)
I'm not using the starter fluid anymore, And i barely used any when i did use it. I'm directly putting a bit of gas in the carb intake thinger manually now to get it to start.
Yea i figured it wouldn't be a good idea to use the compression gauge on the schrader, I only payed like $1 for the cheapie 50 PSI one though ,so it doesnt really matter if it gets messed up... Looks like schucks has the actual tester for $35~If i can get around purchasing it right now i would like to... I need money for other parts.
Anyway, It's a nice day out, So i'll be out there cleaning up my cable work, Testing that stuff you mentioned and looking for problems.
I'll be checking back on the board back and forth also, So if you think of anything i should test or whatever... Let me know. :hick:
Thanks!
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: ZondaC12 on August 01, 2007, 03:50:14 PM
i dont know if this has been mentioned yet but check your grounds for the oxygen sensors AND the ground for the oxygen sensor wiring harness itself, same with the fuel injector harness.
ALL I KNOW is that this winter when i did my HO conversion at some point the orange "oxygen sensor harness ground" got cut or something and became a two inch long wire with no bare wire hanging out at the end of the sheathing. I messed with so much , testing injector voltages and all that and JUST HAPPENED to notice that when digging through all the wires. grounded it out and the thing ran like nothing ever happened. I would love to know WHY that was necessary, as you run into all kinds of people who are "runnin' 'er without the oh-two's in" but that somehow prevented my car's injectors from firing.
Who knows maybe this was useless but we all know how you feel, so it follows that I too do right now, I remember how VERY angry and frustrated I was, and even more when I found out wha was wrong, so Im just puttin' it there just in case.
That last video is nice though, even if thats just for a few seconds on stuff you dumped in :hick:
Good luck!
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 01, 2007, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: jcassity;164900
unhook each injector and rig up a little light bulb with socket and wire leads. I have a tiny bulb with the socket and wire leads hanging on my tool wall to do "blink tests" Just stuff the pos and neg wire up in each spot on the injector plug. Turn the key on and crank. The light bulb will blink each time the eec is programmed to supply and remove the ground.
Rigged up and mildly tested, But it's too bright out to really see right now.
Quote from: jcassity;164900
to make your pump run full time in order to check the fuel presure,,,, find the eec test connector and ground the tan / light green wire. turn the key on and you should hear the fuel pump running. try to start the car with the fuel pump relay ground wiire (tan/light green) up at the eec connected to a nearby ground.
Where exactly do i find the wire to ground?
Quote from: jcassity;164900
also, check the tps for less than a volt with the key on only at the green wire. now manually move the trottle linkage by hand slowly and watch your voltage increase smoothly up to about 4.5vdc. If you have an intermittant open in the TPS, you wont start. The tps is just a variable resistor.
Below is a vid of me doing this, But im not sure it's connected to the correct wiring... (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_a576fecb.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=a576fecb.flv)
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 01, 2007, 06:52:22 PM
Quote from: ZondaC12;165259
i dont know if this has been mentioned yet but check your grounds for the oxygen sensors AND the ground for the oxygen sensor wiring harness itself, same with the fuel injector harness.
ALL I KNOW is that this winter when i did my HO conversion at some point the orange "oxygen sensor harness ground" got cut or something and became a two inch long wire with no bare wire hanging out at the end of the sheathing. I messed with so much , testing injector voltages and all that and JUST HAPPENED to notice that when digging through all the wires. grounded it out and the thing ran like nothing ever happened. I would love to know WHY that was necessary, as you run into all kinds of people who are "runnin' 'er without the oh-two's in" but that somehow prevented my car's injectors from firing.
Who knows maybe this was useless but we all know how you feel, so it follows that I too do right now, I remember how VERY angry and frustrated I was, and even more when I found out wha was wrong, so Im just puttin' it there just in case.
That last video is nice though, even if thats just for a few seconds on stuff you dumped in :hick:
Good luck!
Thanks for the heads up, I'll check em out.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: CougarSE on August 01, 2007, 06:53:22 PM
Interesting... Sunglasses with ear pieces... Good ol Larry King
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on August 02, 2007, 12:03:45 AM
the tps is mounted to the pass side of the CFI, it has a black / green / orange wire coming off it. just prob the green wire or the backshell while its connected and measure the voltage per the instructions in my diy link.
the eec test conn is located on the driver side strut tower,, sort of a triangle shaped 6 pin conn along side a single wire connector.
find that wire on the 6 wire conn thats just dangleing doing nothing and follow the instructions i have given as well as in my diy link.
use the search function for "pulling codes" and eventually you will come across a pic of what the conn looks like.
im not really sure why your meter and you are over on the driver side measuring the tps,, it looks like your measureing the idel control motor assembly.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 12:04:29 PM
Ok, Thanks.
My regular manuals are almost useless for helping me find the wires and sometimes even locations for some things.
The weather took a crazy turn lately, And it's going to be clear and free of rain for over a week straight supposedly! So i've got to find the problem and get it fixed in the meantime hopefully. At least enough to where i can move the car around.
And when i before mentioned in the short time the car would be running off the starter or manually poured gas into the carb, When i step on the gas it would make a FWEEIIIISSH noise and die... Well i have a strong feeling it might be the injectors dry shooting pressure... Need to get my dad out to turn they key while i check this out. :dunno:
*Edit: Ok i searched for the EEC connector, And i actually did have the correct wire for testing the fuel pump test apparently, It just wasn't turning on... I'll try and ground it at the trunk like you mentioned in your DIY.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 02:18:05 PM
!!!!!!!!!!
Something crazy happened when i was running jcassitys tests... I was just finnished with the fuel pump test so i decided to try and start the car just to see if thepump running for awhile helped anything... And she started right up with a huge roawrrrr and stays running!!! I'm getting fuel out the injectors now and everything!
Vids soon!
Fuel + Schrader Test with the Fuel Pump Running: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_67f46b69.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=67f46b69.flv)
But my catalytic converter or something is smoking like crazy... Whats the deal with that?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 02, 2007, 02:51:15 PM
What color is the smoke?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 03:12:07 PM
white
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 02, 2007, 03:14:25 PM
Blue-ish is oil, black is WAY to much gas, I belive white is eitehr condinsation from the car sitting or water in the cylinders. There's ways to check each I think
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 03:16:53 PM
Well the smoke is coming from the drivers side cat? converter its the bubble in the exhaust setup thats attached to the headers, It's also very hot. And the smoke gets worse the more i step on the throttle or leave the car running.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: mywifeskitty on August 02, 2007, 03:52:25 PM
smell the smoke... does it smell sweet? if so that's coolant... also, does the smoke hover for awhile or does it disappear quickly....
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 02, 2007, 03:56:28 PM
I'm with mike, figure out what caused the smoke. I may be talking out my ass, but could the cat be clogged/burned out? I didn't think to say that, as the cats on my car were gutted when I bought it
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 05:31:45 PM
The smoke lingers but theres a lot of it also.
She's acting up again! She wont stay running or wanting to start, And i'm pretty sure im getting gas from the injectors. The only thing i've done since the last startup was shorten the cables to the mini starter... They were from a 93 XR7 that had the relay mounted on the drivers side, So i needed to shorten them about 2 feet.
But the starter wouldn't keep the car from running would it? It turns over and tries to run...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 02, 2007, 05:40:40 PM
Starter only turns the motor over. I would rule that out of the picture. Did you touch any other wiring while you were there?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 06:11:01 PM
Ok, Found some things that might help diagnose the problem/s.
I grounded the fuel pump wire at the eec to let it run again, And while i was looking around the engine for problems, The regulator? at the top of the cfi unit started making clicky pressure noises all of the sudden about 5 mins after. So i tried to start her up, And she ran no problem...
But during running when i hit the throttle the smoking started again from the cats, Then i did the throttle again and the smoke got worse and the engine/idle got really crazy and took awhile to level out... Then right as soon as i turned the key off, Coolant spewed out from beneath the radiator cap...
So i'm gonna go with it's massively overheating for some reason... And something screwey is going on with the fuel setup.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 02, 2007, 06:12:50 PM
It almost sounds like your FPR is messed up to me. As for coolent maybe just the overflow lines were loose? If you need a CFI unit, I think I have a 3.8 one somewhere I can donate if it turnes out to be the problem
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 07:25:11 PM
I hope so, Anything but the internal fuel pump is good for me... What a PITA. :hick:
I just replaced the hose to the radiator and coolant reservoir, The coolant literally shot out from underneath the metal cap on the radiator...
Thanks man.
And yet another qwuirk... This ought to be fun to find... Ok so i've had the car jack up at the passenger front wheel so i could deal with the starter stuffs, Well i just put the wheel on and lowered it back down. I went inside to get my keys from the ignition and i noticed the overhead light is dim... So i try and start the car, Nothing... all lights except the engine light goes out and i don't even hear any clicks.
I'm going to myself what now!!! And i get out of the car and notice the battery light on the cluster just blinked a little... Anyway after playing around for awhile i figure out that if i stand on the drivers door jamb and rock the car back and forth a bunch, I will get full power back...?
So i start up the car all is well, Until the engine starts sputtering out... My lights went out again! It's dead when i turn on ignition. So i do the "rock the car" trick and power comes back...
Bad ground somewhere i assume? How the heck am i gonna find it?...
Also, My gas guage is not working. :punchballs:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Haystack on August 02, 2007, 08:04:39 PM
white smoke can also be oil. Isn't the leak on your valve covers the same side as the cat that keeps smoking?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 02, 2007, 09:13:36 PM
Quote from: Haystack;165584
white smoke can also be oil. Isn't the leak on your valve covers the same side as the cat that keeps smoking?
Both of them were leaking actually, I've since tightened them down, But there is oil all over from when they were leaking.
The whole engine is overheating i think though, It's crazy hot just standing near it.
*My gas gauge is working now... Dad says i probably have a short somewhere causing the weird electrical problems. (We do have critters around here too that might nibble on stuff).
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on August 02, 2007, 11:19:20 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;165500
!!!!!!!!!!
Something crazy happened when i was running jcassitys tests... I was just finnished with the fuel pump test so i decided to try and start the car just to see if thepump running for awhile helped anything... And she started right up with a huge roawrrrr and stays running!!! I'm getting fuel out the injectors now and everything!
But my catalytic converter or something is smoking like crazy... Whats the deal with that?
please put the original starter on for firsties. you need to verify something is not unhooked or crossed ect.
another thing,,, can you please confess if there is any history to the wiring that we should know? also,, what is your fuel presure with the car running,, you still need to answer that question.
also,, what is the TPS voltage
and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CAN SOMEONE PLEASE send this guy a copy of the EVTM? hes going to need it more than any of us at this point.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 03, 2007, 12:26:56 PM
Quote from: jcassity;165649
please put the original starter on for firsties. you need to verify something is not unhooked or crossed ect.
I'm almost positive the mini starter is on and wired correctly, And i did the best job i could with shortening the cables and re-doing the ends.
Quote from: jcassity;165649
another thing,,, can you please confess if there is any history to the wiring that we should know?
Nothing that i can think of... Other than i think this shorting/ground problem has been going on since i got the car, I just hadn't diagnosed it yet.
Quote from: jcassity;165649
also,, what is your fuel presure with the car running,, you still need to answer that question.
I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, And don't know anyone thats has one. :punchballs: I'll see about purchasing one. However, This is the last vid i did of the schrader pressure: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_67f46b69.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=67f46b69.flv)
Quote from: jcassity;165649
also,, what is the TPS voltage
Test at the green wire near the disconnect: (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/th_7f9e1fc7.jpg) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/?action=view¤t=7f9e1fc7.flv) 1.2v min to 4.2v max
Also, it only really seems to overheat or start smoking when i hit the throttle. My idle is a bit bouncy as well.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: mywifeskitty on August 03, 2007, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;165737
Also, it only really seems to overheat or start smoking when i hit the throttle. My idle is a bit bouncy as well.
it's so hard to diagnose from so far away :)
i don't know why your car would overheat after 5 minutes of idle....
also, you have so many problems with it, you may want to just start doing them 1 at a time (the fun part is knowing where to start :)..... i thought the white smoke was exhaust, but you are saying that it's actually from the cats....does it feel like there is a lot of pressure being exerted from the exhaust at the tailpipes? that'll also tell you if a cat might be clogged.... anyway, try running the engine with the radiator cap off (filled up) and see if there are any bubbles in there (while running) that'll tell you if you have a head gasket problem (at least if it's leaking into the coolant)... anyway, this sounds like such fun :)
i also agree with jcassity.... you really need to make sure your wiring is connected right before you start diagnosing any performance related issues... i can't tell you the number of times i've had performance related issues because someone accidentally messed up a ground wire
have fun:punchballs:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 03, 2007, 01:22:12 PM
Will do. :punchballs:
As for the wiring, I'm always checking to make sure anything that i've done with the wiring is correctly installed/re-installed and such. However the whole battery cable was a huge slip up on my part, Got side tracked... But all is well now with that. :hick:
Like i said, I think the shorting/Ground problem qwuirk that i now need to find has been with the car since i got it. It would explain some odd occurrences in the past, And also why the owner just dumped it off for free, Claiming a "dead battery" when the battery wasn't fully dead (Needed a good charge).
The weather just took a huge turn, As where they were saying on the news yesterday it was going to be sunny/clear for the entire week... Its now pouring rain?... *sigh*
BTW, would a code reader help me in finding the location of any bad grounds or wiring defects?
I have a feeling i'm going to have a very hard time finding this short/ground problem... The only thing i have to go on is: 1 While the car was jacked up on the front passenger side, The ground/short was not an issue. 2 As soon as i lowered the passenger side back down and the car was flat on the ground, The problem started up. 3 Any slight movement seem's to agitate/trigger the problem. 4 And large movement (Such as rocking the car back and forth) on the drivers side really activates the problem.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 03, 2007, 01:25:10 PM
Any of the grounds. I'd guess a few sports for ya 1. The bettery cable, either the block or the clamp itself 2. The EEC ground. Comes off the harness near the EEC, and is grounded to the body 3. A few other grounds under hood
Just get a wiring schmatic and run with it, checking all the grounds
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 03, 2007, 01:30:20 PM
I have a feeling it's on the drivers side, Probably the EEC ground to the body you mentioned.
I need to find a schematic and go hunting when the rain clears.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 03, 2007, 01:46:48 PM
EEC ground is behind the passanger side kick panel
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 03, 2007, 01:50:51 PM
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on August 03, 2007, 06:16:16 PM
Would you mind describing the short/ground problem again.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: *MAYHEM* on August 03, 2007, 09:30:51 PM
nm
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 03, 2007, 10:16:55 PM
Quote from: softtouch;165812
Would you mind describing the short/ground problem again.
While i had the car jacked up on the passenger front side (Leaning toward the drivers), I had no electrical difficulties.
But when i lowered the car back down (on all fours, leveled out), I went to start her up, And the first thing i noticed were the interior lights were dimmed... So i hit the ignition and nothing happened~except all interior and cluster lights went/faded out. (except for the engine light).
So after grabbing my meter and testing the battery and various other places, And not finding any reason for the power loss/drain. I got in tried the ignition again, However this time i noticed as i sat down in the car the battery light flickered on the cluster... So i hopped around a bit in the seat and the light flickered some more.
Eventually i found by standing on the drivers side door jamb and rocking the car back and forth~That it would restore full power back to everything... After i started the engine up last time however, The shaking of the engine/idle caused the short/ground to go screwey again and go out~Making the engine die. The rock the car trick fixed this again however...
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 03, 2007, 10:33:02 PM
I duno man. Ya got me as of now
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on August 03, 2007, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;165861
But when i lowered the car back down (on all fours, leveled out), I went to start her up, And the first thing i noticed were the interior lights were dimmed... So i hit the ignition and nothing happened~except all interior and cluster lights went/faded out. (except for the engine light).[\QUOTE]
Were the interior lights supposed to be on? Door was open? Was this before you fixed the negative battery cable?
Quote
So after grabbing my meter and testing the battery and various other places, And not finding any reason for the power loss/drain. I got in tried the ignition again, However this time i noticed as i sat down in the car the battery light flickered on the cluster... So i hopped around a bit in the seat and the light flickered some more.[\QUOTE]
The battery light should only come on if the ignition is in RUN. Looks like a bad ignition switch
Quote
The shaking of the engine/idle caused the short/ground to go screwey again and go out~Making the engine die. The rock the car trick fixed this again however...
This also could be the ignition switch.
Don't know why the quotes didn't work .
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 03, 2007, 11:44:16 PM
After reading what Softtouch posted... I vote ignition switch
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on August 04, 2007, 11:45:44 PM
you should now be able to replicate the problem by banging or gyrating the steering wheel if the ign sw is bad.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 07:51:25 PM
Nope, Cant get the power to drain/go out again... I was banging on all kinds of stuff, Rocking The car back and forth from various angles, Nothing...
But the drivers side cat is still smoking like a chimney after the engine has been running for about 5 minutes, And once it starts smoking, It gets worse real quick...
Also, It just started smoking like crazy and revved it a few times and the engine sputtered very oddly, The smoke got really bad so i shut the car off. And now when i have the ign switch on, Theres a loud BUZZZ coming from near the cluster that overwhelms the chiming of the "key in ignition, door open" alert.
*Dunno what the buzz is... Also noticed my lights are very lightly but noticebly draining briefly when i turn on or use anything electrical, I've had this problem since i got the car, Thought i had it fixed with the new battery... >.<
Anyway, From reading up on stuff, I think my catalytic converter might be plugged up on the drivers side~or the air fuel mixture is running wrong~Or the fuel mixture is running too rich. If it was clogged, wouldnt that explain why the engine is overheating? As well as the converter getting scorching hot. (cause the exhaust cant escape...?).
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 32VFoxBird on August 06, 2007, 09:37:02 PM
if the converter was plugged it would run like a dog, or not run at all. i would cut the pipe off in front of the converter, to see if it revs any better.
as far as your electrical issues, i think your SOL. sounds like you'll need to trace back every wire looking for a short.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 06, 2007, 09:40:17 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;166619
if the converter was plugged it would run like a dog, or not run at all. i would cut the pipe off in front of the converter, to see if it revs any better.
as far as your electrical issues, i think your SOL. sounds like you'll need to trace back every wire looking for a short.
Thats what I had to do with mine... it wasn't fun
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 09:44:19 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;166619
if the converter was plugged it would run like a dog, or not run at all. i would cut the pipe off in front of the converter, to see if it revs any better.
as far as your electrical issues, i think your SOL. sounds like you'll need to trace back every wire looking for a short.
I read about drilling a hole ahead of the converter, Fitting a tube in and testing the pressure when it's revved... Just don't have a welder to patch it back up. >.<
And that sounds like loads of fun.... *sigh*
Maybe the buzz is some kind of warning noise? Has no one ever heard there bird or cat buzz from the cluster area before? It kinda sounds like a fabricated/man made buzz and not an electrical malfunction... i think it's even coming from the same speaker or whatever the door chime comes from.
I'll get some error codes here soon, I'll either buy a code scanner tomorrow~or make one.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 06, 2007, 09:45:51 PM
I'd say overboost buzzer... but you don't have a TC
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;166625
I'd say overboost buzzer... but you don't have a TC
I wish. ;-(
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on August 06, 2007, 10:10:56 PM
hold your nuts the right way,, it might fix somethin:D
jk
no, dont drill,, remove your o2's and rev it up or just loosen the headers a little leaving the hardware in place and see if that helps.
the converter being clogged will show up best at night. they usually glow orangeish red. your lucky,, just undo the bolts after the main cat, start stuffing a pipe up in there till all that crunches up and then rev the motor and shoot it out the ass end. repeat until empty and rebolt up.
that buzzing noise,,, flick your wiper lever a couple times and see if it goes away. when the wiper switch hoses up, they like to buzz and get stuck in mid stroke. BTW(it sucks to be in mid stroke and get stuck with a hurt back):D
now
whats the fuel presure while running whats the compression numbers what does your oil look like in texture ect what does the oil smell like have you removed your valve covers to verify each valve is moving have you cleaned your ACT sensor/o2 sensor have you measured the resistance of all injectors have you felt each injector while running to see if each one is clicking did you ever FARKING replace the egr base gasket (best listen to me on that one)
i know this is going nuts on you,, sounds like you really need a second hand
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 11:36:29 PM
LOL
Nah, Feel free to go nuts. :laughing: Truth is i need all the help i can get. :flip:
Wow, i got a little behind on your tests >.< I'll get it on it soon, I had to do some other work the last few days.
I'll be moving the car over to the side driveway, And getting the carport ready for her here at some point. They claim rain for the next few days though. *sigh*
Something my dad mentioned today though... And i REALLY need to tend to. He asked about my transmission fluid, Because it might could cause some problems... I'm all like: Yea... Uhm... I've completely forgot to check that... So i run out and check the levels... And the dipstick is nearly dry. :flame: *Waits to get bish slapped*
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 06, 2007, 11:40:36 PM
What does trans fluid have to do with it running?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 11:44:23 PM
*shrugs*
Figured it might affect "something" i guess, I dipped the stick in there 3 times and it came out nearly dry each time.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 06, 2007, 11:54:44 PM
It has to be running in park at idle for you to check the trans fluid. Atleast thats what I was told
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 06, 2007, 11:56:13 PM
yea, thats what i did.
I also just tested the battery voltage and it's at it normal 12.5'ish yet it's still doing the small but noticeable drain thing... So back to short hunting *sigh*
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 06, 2007, 11:57:14 PM
Did you leave something on in the car. Something as simple as the int lights or the headlights?
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 07, 2007, 12:04:19 AM
Not that i know of, My trunk light and glove compartment light are acting VERY touchy though, Need to keep an eye on them.
While they are on, Any slight 'lil movment to them will make them shut off or flicker~bad contacts or just need the bulbs replaced i assume.
I'm not sure where the light shut off switch for the trunk light is though, Maybe it's being lame and keeping the trunk light on while it's closed... more stuff to look into >.< Thanks for the heads up :hick:
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: 84 Fila on August 07, 2007, 12:08:52 AM
Take out the bulbs... thats the easy fix
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on August 07, 2007, 11:34:17 AM
Get yourself a test light. Take the negative battery cable off the battery. Hook the light between the cable and the battery terminal. If it lights, you have drain. Disconnect and isolate stuff until the light goes out.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 08, 2007, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: softtouch;166804
Get yourself a test light. Take the negative battery cable off the battery. Hook the light between the cable and the battery terminal. If it lights, you have drain. Disconnect and isolate stuff until the light goes out.
Will do.
Rain started up again, And i've go some other stuff i need to tend to first though. :punchballs:
But i picked up some new tools yesterday for troubleshooting. :hick: Got a compression testing kit, Fuel injection pressure tester kit and a ford code reader kit.
I'll get back to the car here soon, Rain or not. >.<
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: jcassity on August 09, 2007, 03:05:56 AM
Quote from: softtouch;166804
Get yourself a test light. Take the negative battery cable off the battery. Hook the light between the cable and the battery terminal. If it lights, you have drain. Disconnect and isolate stuff until the light goes out.
meaning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if it lights up then pull every fuse:D recheck to see if it still lights up if not- start inserting fuses in one by one until it does when it does light up, PLEASE report back with which fuse that is.
if it does, then the problem is isolated to any one of the fuseable like circuits which can be isolated by removing them one at at time on the starter solenoid or,,,,,,, the single wire conn for the eec coming off the bat neg.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: Romeo2k on August 17, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
I went out and ran some codes:
Key on ignition off: 21 "O" - Cooling Temperature sensor out of specified range or ECT out of range
Running i got this: 41 "R" - HEGO (HO2S) sensor signal out of range / always lean
And then she started smoking like crazy again... And from both sides of the engine now!!!
After reading through haynes, The area where the smoke is coming from just happens to be the same area as the oxygen sensors!! So looks like i need to go pick up an ECT sensor, And a couple Oxy Sensors.
I really hope this fixes the smoking/overheating...
**Oh, And im running a very steady 42 PSI fuel pressure at the schrader valve.
Title: Running!!! - With Qwuirks...
Post by: softtouch on August 17, 2007, 11:35:30 PM
Quote from: Romeo2k;169978
I went out and ran some codes:
Key on ignition off: 21 "O" - Cooling Temperature sensor out of specified range or ECT out of range
Check for broken wires at the ECT sensor.
Quote
Running i got this: 41 "R" - HEGO (HO2S) sensor signal out of range / always lean
Right O2 sensor lean. You do not have HeatedEGO's. You have "One wire" EGO's.
Quote
And then she started smoking like crazy again... And from both sides of the engine now!!!
After reading through haynes, The area where the smoke is coming from just happens to be the same area as the oxygen sensors!! So looks like i need to go pick up an ECT sensor, And a couple Oxy Sensors.
I really hope this fixes the smoking/overheating...
Is it the exhaust gas that is smoking or stuff burning off the outside of the exhaust manifold?