I did a gob of work on my buddies 83 bird 5.0 heritige edition. It had a rod knock but we decided to see how long it would last. Well, he overheated it a bit and sent it over the edge. I guess it's really bad now.
The question is this, the car isn't nice enough to be all that concerned about originality. A used motor would be fine with him. So...ideally we'd find an 83 and not have to switch anything but that's less likely than finding something that's maybe a different year but will work with some swap over.
Can anyone tell me what years will work with minimal swap over, ie intake, sensors...etc? Also, other options such as a wider range of years that'll work but with more stuff to change. 5.0's are dime a dozen in trucks and fox mustangs etc but of course all with different intakes and stuff...
Since he's not concerned with having the numbers matching engine in it and can't afford to rebuild the one that's in it, I'm tasked with figuring out what else will work at the best price for him. He's a pretty close friend so I work REALLY cheap for him. The main goal is finding a motor that'll work and save him the most amount of money. The labor, I can work with him on.
I live in mid Michigan, near Flint. Maybe someone from the forum lives here and has something we can use? Maybe just anyone that can advice me on the best way to go.
If it was up to me I'd put a 460 in it and a carb and eliminate the computer all together but that's me. LOL
Yea, kinda of a py design huh? I would have gotten fired if I had designed something so chitty when I was a tool designer. But then again part design is a whole different world. In part design all they have to achieve is a short amount of life until it's down the road and hopefully they can avoid a recall. A stamped piece would be maybe 40 times more stable, strong and, in reality, could made from stock so thin it really wouldn't weigh enough more to be of any consequences. Possibly even of equal weight. But then again, I think like a tool designer where longevity is key. The odd thing is the cost per unit would actually be cheaper I would think. I like the idea of strapping it into place for ease of serviceability down the road. BUT, in this case, not being my car, I think it would be best to use the retainer. I will remove that mesh "filter" deal though, that's just foolish. Refresh my memory, you said to use a machine screw like a tap, thread it into the brass or bronze ring at the top of the screen mesh and c00ch it out? Or did you say to use a pointed screw and thread it into the mesh and pull it out? How tight are they in there anyway? If they're in there fairly tight then the machine screw deal would probably be the only way to go.
I can't thank you enough for how helpful you've been. I was sure to convey that to the owner of the car. It's nice to look like "the smart guy that figured it out" but I have no problem with giving credit where it's due. Having never worked on one of these types of throttle systems I was a bit lost.
yes I did! Thank so much and sorry I didn't let you know sooner. I was really busy there for a while and between all the work and the cold snap I've been down a couple of days either sick or just burned out. That's exactly what I needed and the owner of the car couldn't be happier.
What do you think about this, I was thinking about how not to break another one by leaving it just snug. Not so tight that the part might crack but tight enough to say in there. I was thing of some thread locker I picked up by mistake. It's blue but weaker than typical blue. I'm thinking it's intended more as a thread sealer than a locker but should do nicely for this application. What do you think about that?
That 83 T-Bird I'm working on has some issues in the throttle body, it's a 5.0 car by the way. I took the throttle body apart and noticed a visible line on the area of the fuel injector pod retainer where the retaining screw goes through. I assumed it was just a parting line or something but it was a crack. It cracked in two. There was another throttle body, disassembled in a box in the trunk and it's retainer was also snapped in two. From this I can only assume it's a common issue or they're just really easy to break.
The question, is, where do I get one? I've called all the junk yard sources I have and nobody's got one. I was hoping that maybe one of you guys had an extra you would be willing to sell or a source where I can buy one or two. What a design huh? You can't tighten the retaining screw all the way or it breaks but you have to have the pod all the way into the little fuel rail. Talk about finding a happy medium huh? LOL
I could really use some help on this, the car's been here for over a month with all the other work I've done to it and now it's held up over one stupid little part in the TB.
Thank you, I think that's all I'll need but just so that I understand the full circuit I may ask for the pages before and after. First let me go out maybe tomorrow and see what I'm looking at. My back went out yesterday and haven't been able to get out there today as planned. Hopefully tomorrow.
If anyone can help me out with a diagram or from memory, I'm having a hard time figuring out the wires to the the courtesy lights and the the console's "glove box" light. They are just barrel connectors but they color codes aren't matching up. When I connect the matching colors together what I end up with is the on off switch for the light in the storage bin can only plug to itself. I'm not talking about any of the window controls or any of that, the the few barrel connectors that run the lighting.
It turns out that the coil wire was not seating all the way down into the coil and there's some corrosion down in the coil. I think the dealership pieced together a wire set and the coil wire they used has a boot that's a bit too small and the connector may be too short.
The weather was decent so before it got dark I went out, the car was sitting outside, put the timing light on the coil wire and found now light. I went back through and checked every wire, every plug, every connection, every ground yet one more time. Nothing. So I got mad and yanked the coil wire out of the coil and jammed it back in as hard as I good and hopped into the car. I decided to try it one last time and run the window up if it didn't start. It fired right up!
Now onto the next issue, leaking heater core....oh brother! I searched the forum and found some info and got started. Nearly 5 hours in and I'm a long way from even getting the old one out. Somebody do me a favor, remind me to never do another heater core on an 83 Bird again! LOL
Thanks so much for the help.
And by the way, if anyone has any shortcut ideas I'm all ears. I've got the dash a few screws shy of being loose, the console out, hoses off, evap lines off, kick pannels and trim off and the nuts off on the engine bay side of the heater box. It looks like another couple of hours minimum before I'll have the bad core out.
That's how I thought they worked too. It just seemed odd that none of that system was working before I messed around under the dash and now it is and coincidently, it won't start now either.
The car's still outside for another day or so so I haven't messed with it at all.
Interesting...I just got a call from my friend, the owner of the T-Bird, and he tells me he'd purchased a repair manual when he bought the car. This alone kind of surprised me because he's very NOT mechanical. But...he can read! LOL
Evidently there IS and anti theft system on the car from the factory. He says that it reads, "in order to disable the system you must either unlock one of the doors with the key or with the key pad. The cylinder's are frozen up and he doesn't know the code to the key pad. I'm REALLY hoping I can free up the lock cylinder.
Any ideas there or how to find out what the code is?
That diagram will be quite helpful. If this was a late 60s Mopar....actually, almost any year Mopar into the early 80s, I'd know what wire does everything and what color it is and exactly how many volts should be present and when. They sure didn't spare the spaghetti on these cars did they? To be honest I shouldn't have been intimidated by it all but I was. Every extra vacuum hose and messy wire made it a little more nerve wracking. I went through and eliminated all the smog system in effort to clean it up a little under the hood. The pump was froze up and the piping was all rotted out anyway. There was literally no reason for the components to remain expect for originality. That train left the station already. Nearly every wire on the motor had been broken or cut and repaired at some point, either with butt connectors or just with tape. I was very concerned this could cause an issue in the process of R & R but I managed to not yank any apart. Have the diagram will help verify things that are supposed to be powered up are and at the right time.
Thanks and any other thoughts, feel free.
Wayne
Back to the diagram, question, the orange wire off the ignition module says "to EEC III System" What is that the crank sensor?
soft touch, ...good idea. I can't believe I didn't think of that.
turbocoupe50, not sure how much the coil is producing but it gave me quite a zap through the screwdriver. I was pretty sure I was holding only the wooden handle but must have touched the metal. When you say "to white wire of module" what module? Do you mean the crank sensor? Ignition box?
Basically you can't, has to be a defect in cap, rotor or coil wire(assumes spark isn't traveling down coil tower to ground)... Possibly if dist orientation is off enough, spark could be jumping to some other point inside dist...
I have seen old wires that had so much porosity the spark had leaked to ground before it got to the plugs(generally happens in damp weather), but I doubt new wires could have this issue...
Yea, that's what I thought and looked it all over again today. The distributor is still right and has not been turned, I used a carb type motor lift plate to remove the motor so there were no chains or straps anywhere near the distributor to bump it. The cap isn't cracked, rotor looks good and again the wires, and everything else is new. Puzzling. But yea, logically it seems it would HAVE to be one of those components if I'm getting broken spark from the coil wire. My thought is that maybe the crank sensor is breaking it but at the wrong time but it seems like then it would probably jump to the wrong plug wire lug and at least backfire, which it isn't. Very odd. I had no choice but to drag it out today so I've got a few days to think about and discuss ideas with you guys. Keep em comin!
Yes, actually there are three, kinda. There's one at the back of the motor, one at the front that ground from the motor to the body and then to the negative battery post. First thing I checked.
This strikes me as odd. I have good spark coming out of the coil wire but none to the plugs. Given that it has a crankshaft positioning sensor there is no pick up in the distributor. The distributor just distributes spark to the correct plugs. How can I be getting a "breaking spark" out of the coil and it not get to the plugs? It seems to me that if the crank sensor was bad I wouldn't be getting a broken spark signal from the coil. Does that seem right? The rotor is turning while the motor is cranking. The cap, rotor, plugs and wires are new. Again the stealership milked him for every nickel they could. I mean EVERYTHING. Hoses, belts all tune up components, fuel filter, fuel pump. They even called him after telling him he needed a new fuel pump and informed him his tank was too rusty and would have to be replaced as well. Maybe it was, I didn't see it. My point is that they changed EVERYTHING they could on this.
I have power at the red wire to the coil while the key is on. I also have power to all four wires that feed the fuel injectors just before the connector at the throttle body. I didn't think to probe the wires to the injectors.
Also I'd like to note something I hadn't noticed before. I am now hearing under the dash "the key is in the ignition" when it is and the door is opened. That system wasn't working before. I'm concerned that there's a security system in the mix here. I was working under the dash while the motor was out because the vacuum power brake booster was leaking internally. It was a bear getting the booster out with the engine out. I can only imagine trying to do it with it in. I'm wondering if the box that is retained by one of the four booster studs was not grounded and therefore not working before and by grounding it I've "activated" the security system. There's a light on the console that says alarm. I didn't notice it flashing before but do now. I think it only flashed while that voice message is playing, furthering my concern about the security system.
There are quite a number of spliced, butt connected and taped up wires under the hood of this thing. I was very careful when disconnection things to not yank anything apart. That's why I need to know what's supposed to be hot and when. I need to verify the electronic ignition is functioning correctly but I don't know which wires do what without a diagram and hopefully a procedure.
