General => Lounge => Automotive News & Fuel/Energy debate/discussion => Topic started by: Thunder Chicken on February 06, 2009, 11:59:23 AM
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 06, 2009, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: CNN
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- One proposal to help jump start U.S. auto sales was withdrawn late Thursday and the fate of another was unclear, despite a vigorous endorsp00get from President Barack Obama, as Senate consideration of economic stimulus legislation accelerated. Sen. Thomas Harkin, an Iowa Democrat, pulled an amendment that would have provided $16 billion in rebates to buyers of new fuel efficient vehicles who traded in their old, poor performing models. Harkin said he would defer the so-called "cash for clunkers" proposal, which had strong support from U.S. automakers. Lobbyists for those companies this week called it a genuine stimulus for a depressed market. U.S. auto sales plunged to a 26-year low (http://"http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/03/news/companies/auto_sales/index.htm?postversion=2009020317") in January. There was no backing, however, for the plan from foreign manufacturers whose operations are clustered in states represented by conservative Republicans. The provision required that the vehicle be assembled in the United States, a nod to General Motors Corp (GM (http://"http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GM&source=story_quote_link"), Fortune 500 (http://"http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/snapshots/175.html?source=story_f500_link")), Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Co (F (http://"http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=F&source=story_quote_link"), Fortune 500 (http://"http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/snapshots/160.html?source=story_f500_link")), all struggling financially and all based in economically hard-hit Michigan. Those companies' domestic operations are unionized. Automakers and suppliers are pushing hard for additional help from Washington, which extended GM and Chrysler a $17.4 billion bailout in December. The Treasury Department has extended domestic auto finance companies capital to help stimulate lending and is considering additional steps to unlock tight consumer credit. Still, U.S. automakers are banking on additional assistance from Congress. Lawmakers also are weighing proposals in and outside of stimulus legislation to fund battery research for plug-in hybrids and other alternative fuels. Also under consideration in the Senate stimulus bill is a $600 million plan for the government to purchase tens of thousands of fuel efficient vehicles to replace inefficient models in the fleet. Obama Thursday struck back at critics of the plan, saying that it would reduce gasoline consumption and help revive sales. "It will not only save the government significant money over time, it will not only create manufacturing jobs for folks who are making these cars, it will set a standard for private industry to match," Obama said in an appearance at the Energy Department. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell called the new vehicle program wasteful spending. "I doubt if the government buying $600 million worth of automobiles would provide the kind of stimulus that we're talking about here," McConnell said Sunday in an appearance on the CBS program "Face the Nation."
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2009, 01:41:22 PM
Quote
Obama Thursday struck back at critics of the plan, saying that it would reduce gasoline consumption and help revive sales.
When banks aren't giving credit to help purchase a car how can the average working American afford a new car? The pennies given for a "clunker" would not cover the cost of a new car....
As far as gas consumption, that's on a case by case basis. Honestly right now how many cars are more fuel efficient that their counterparts from 25 years ago. Extra power and added heft have negated most of that supposed savings...
I'm glad it was shot down.
This $1.173 TRILLION price tag is not what the public needs.
Do we need something? Yes. Not a plan where $400 million goes to Citibank so they can put their name on the replacement for Shea Stadium.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: mjbtbrd on February 06, 2009, 02:05:59 PM
That is good news for us "don't crush 'em restore 'em" guys
I also agree that most with a clunker as their main mode of transportation are not going to run out and buy a new car. They are more apt to buy a slightly less of a clunker used car in the few thousand dollar range. These folks are in most cases not going to be running out to purchase a new hybrid with the few hundred bucks they might have received from our tax dollars, as a down payment.
If the government wants to stimulate the economy maybe the money would be better spent funding road repairs so the cars on the road do not fast become clunkers traversing our crumbling, pothole laden, barely passable (in many cases) roads, and bridges.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 09, 2009, 10:07:32 PM
Every car I've ever owned was a clunker. Even the $15k Volvo was a clunker. What I usually pay for a car wouldn't make a payment on a new one. No matter the stimulus I would never, ever buy a brand new car. It's just too poor an investment. Buying a year old off-lease car makes infinite more sense than buying a new one, and for me, buying an old shiznitbox and doing what it takes to keep it moving makes even more sense.
As for fuel economy my 13 year old Saturn gets well over 35MPG (actually over 45MPG when real Imperial gallons are the measure). Trading it in on a new car that gets 30MPG would not save fuel.
That being said, I was against the cash-for-clunkers program not because I was afraid it would send millions of cars to the crusher (in reality it probably would've made for much better parts availability, as the bill only required that the old cars be taken off the road forever, it did not specify that they be crushed), but because it is nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul. Yeah, let's put all the aftermarket repair shops out of business by putting everyone in a brand new car!!! Put all the mechanics in the unemployment line just to keep a bunch of overpaid union workers happy...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Haystack on February 09, 2009, 11:29:47 PM
I didn't realize that that bill was thrown into the overcrowded crock of shiznit gimme gimme stimulus package. I think if the government didn't spend all day dealing with stupid bills and getting to the ones that really matter would help the economy over a bunch of he said she said playground fights.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on March 01, 2009, 01:07:46 AM
I would have done thing much differently by now if i had the executive order power barry has used.
At this moment in time we can not afford
- to give money to other countries (south africa are you hearing this?) - Nafta / Cafta / whatever else there is like this - to pay for non citizens to free lance the money pot they roll in - to ingore our elderly taxing and forcing high medication prices - ignore our ever growing younger people who cant afford college - toloerate crippling university tuition - allow forgien foods appearing in our grocery stores (that list is dealy and a disgrace) - ingnore our farmers and thier land that could be in full action - duplicate taxation on a citizen for the same serivce because of tax loop holes. (ie- e911 fee on each phone line in one house,,,,,and other taxes like this. - to ignore our aging power plants and utility infrustructure - to ignore our own responsibility to take care of our own FIRST - to give away services to those not here legally - to allow racially biased loans given to people stupid enough to take them and then bail them out. - to ignore the general public having a dospoogeented track record of paying thier bills and not helping them out. - to play ball with china any longer. Thier products and lack of following the rules play a huge roll in our current economic situation - to fight a war with no real defined direction. Afghanistan's main crop (drug of choice for many) is not worth sending our troops in there. - to ignore proper and genuine standards that represent the foundation of our nation. - to play ball with the drug industry crooks testing out the public with thier pills that are not tested nor FDA approved.
oh well,,, who are we to complain. We are just the people. I said it here a couple or three years ago and I will say it again. The gov't is in a silent war against "the family".
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 01, 2009, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: jcassity;258990
I would have done thing much differently by now if i had the executive order power barry has used.
So, you're insulted by a cop slapping someone's ass in a silly MADE UP commercial, but you disrespect the President by 1) not referring to him as the President and 2) using a nickname he chose NOT to use at the age of 19.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: 88turbo on March 01, 2009, 09:03:20 AM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;258997
So, you're insulted by a cop slapping someone's ass in a silly MADE UP commercial, but you disrespect the President by 1) not referring to him as the President and 2) using a nickname he chose NOT to use at the age of 19.
Hey everyone has their freedom of opinion.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 01, 2009, 09:41:36 AM
You all missed it... Plan was to put buyers in new cars they couldn't afford(much like houses), then they could be bought for pennies on the dollar at auction after they were repossed...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 01, 2009, 10:35:41 AM
...which works out great for those of us who prefer to buy cars for pennies on the dollar :D
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 01, 2009, 10:40:22 AM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;258997
you disrespect the President by 1) not referring to him as the President
Rare was it ever that during the last 8 years I heard someone refer to our last president as anything other than "the monkey/moron/retard/etc in the white house", "dubya", "bushy" "redneck"...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 01, 2009, 12:38:33 PM
...and a point for Zonda. I absolutely hated Bush, but a point's a point :D
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: 86XR7project on March 01, 2009, 01:07:02 PM
Wow, theres a strong point. Didn't hear anyone try to defend George W did we?
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: V8Demon on March 01, 2009, 01:27:20 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;259009
You all missed it... Plan was to put buyers in new cars they couldn't afford(much like houses), then they could be bought for pennies on the dollar at auction after they were repossed...
Who pays for that in the long run? You know how many brand new $70K cars I see repossessed from persons who live in housing paid for by state aid?
Throwing money at stupidity does not cure that stupidity IMHO.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on March 01, 2009, 02:36:03 PM
What the rainbow hollywood and community organizer leading congress do not know is that they are not the majority. They may have the power of the television, but they better reach deeper to take the power of a good American.
What makes me really sick is all the debate i have with issues like this way on the front end and all the retaliation i get for it. It's just a matter of time before people come around to thier senses. My hope is increasing every day as people find thier voice again with thier neighbors and friends in converstions taking place everywhere.
oh- another jcassity exective order Shift all trade/ imports / exports to Cananda and Mexico. These two contries are our neighbors and each has a bounty of resources which can be wisely used. In effect, the US can make product and recipricate to each of our neighbors accordingly. Lets also consider increasing trade wth Germany and the Swiss which have a long history of high quality and high demand talent.
I think Tom is dead on though, its like predicting the future.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 01, 2009, 04:34:46 PM
Scott, I agree with most of what you said, but there are a few points that don't sit well with me:
The ban on international foods, for one. That's OK if you live in a warm climate, but here in eastern Canada a ban on international foods would mean no more oranges, mangoes, peaches, etc. In fact for six months of the year it'd mean we were stuck eating nothing but fish, whale blubber, and seal meat. I think a better solution would be banning foods made in a country whose safety, labour, environmental and inspection standards don't match ours.
The other sticky point would be the "family values" bit. My values may not match your values, and I would not have your values forced on my family any more than you'd have mine forced on yours. My neighbour's values may not match either of ours, and I would not force my values upon him any more than I'd accept his values being forced upon me. I grew up in a very conservative household and when I look back at some of the "values" my father used to try to impress on us I am disgusted and ashamed (and yet proud that I was able to look beyond those "teachings"). My father was anti gay, anti woman (as in a woman should be kept barefoot and pregnant), anti immigration (even though being of European descent any Micmac indian would call him an immigrant), anti catholic, anti semitic, and very racist. He tried his best to drive those "values" into us. I can actually still quite vividly remember the moment it dawned on me that "old fashioned values" did not necessarily mean "good values". It was on my Grade Six trip, mid 80's, and my assigned seat on the school bus was right next to Mr. Williams, the janitor. I was upset at this arrangement, not because Mr. Williams was "the establishment", but because he was black. I could not believe I was stuck sitting next to this ni**er for the whole week. For the first few hours I stewed, giving him stinkeye whenever he so much as glanced at me.
Then for no reason at all I was struck with a thought: Why was I sitting there hating this man? He was perfectly nice, he played Santa Claus at school every Christmas (yes, in a community school as white as the driven snow, we had a black Santa), he loved interacting with the kids (he was always out playing baseball, basketball, etc with kids on break and after school) and you could just see goodness in his eyes. That moment I realized that my father was not teaching us, but retarding us, and I made it a point to never judge a person for reasons with no merit again. It is one of the few facets about me that could be considered "liberal", and one of the traits of my personality that will get me into heated discussions quite often (and more than one fistfight, to be true), as I will not tolerate bigots at all.
And since then my father has opened his own eyes as well, thanks largely in part to my sister giving birth to a mullatto daughter who has become my father's secret favourite grand daughter. He simply could not bring himself to hate her based merely on the colour of her skin, and saw that what his father taught him was not always right.
...All of which is a long way of saying that one's "proper and genuine standards" is not necessarily another's "proper and genuine standards".
But as I said, I largely agree with the rest of what you've stated...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 01, 2009, 04:55:22 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;259037
...and a point for Zonda. I absolutely hated Bush, but a point's a point :D
Nope, no point at all.
Bush earned all those nicknames. The bigots are attacking our new President from Day 1. It's vile and disgusting and I'm already sick of it.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 01, 2009, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;259089
Nope, no point at all.
Bush earned all those nicknames. The bigots are attacking our new President from Day 1. It's vile and disgusting and I'm already sick of it.
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: Alrighty then. I dont wanna get in fights with you man, so Im gonna do the smart thing and just leave well enough alone. Hopefully others will follow suit we don't need to be getting pissed at each other we're s'posed to be car buddies n stuph.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: V8Demon on March 01, 2009, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;259089
Nope, no point at all.
Bush earned all those nicknames. The bigots are attacking our new President from Day 1. It's vile and disgusting and I'm already sick of it.
Yes and no. It's VERY true some people are using unwarranted names. Others fear his political history and are using that as a mile marker...At least that's what they say.
Meh.
Lobbyists suck no matter what side they're on.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 01, 2009, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;259102
Yes and no. It's VERY true some people are using unwarranted names. Others fear his political history and are using that as a mile marker...
Meh.
I waited 3+ years for Bush to earn his FAIL stripes. He wore his big "F" with pride. If you ever see me hoping that a President I don't even know yet fails and causes our country to fail with all that would entail, then you can hang a "T" for Traitor banner around my neck. I hope and pray that he succeeds, because we really need to undo the destruction that Bush has brought to this great nation.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: V8Demon on March 01, 2009, 05:50:21 PM
Quote
I waited 3+ years for Bush to earn his FAIL stripes.
That's about when he lost his mind....:hick:
Quote
because we really need to undo the destruction that Bush has brought to this great nation.
IMHO, he had help.
No child left behind means no student can get ahead.
Back on topic ;)
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 01, 2009, 05:53:10 PM
back on topic - sorry for the distraction folks...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Haystack on March 01, 2009, 08:54:01 PM
see if we could do this every day, then we could talk about politics.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on March 01, 2009, 09:03:36 PM
irony alert!
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on March 01, 2009, 11:42:50 PM
thunderchicken Foods of that nature of course would be available as would the needs of your neighbors if Canada so decided there were excess stores to trade. My recent grocery shopping and close examination of the fish section made me think long and hard. No Talopia (sp) available from any other country but china.
I am not sure what the purpose was about race in your text and how it applied to what I said and provoked a response in disagreement. My parents adopted all three of us when they were in thier late 40's. I was adopted in 74' at the age of 5. You can imagine my rearing was simiair to yours in most respects. I remember as a kid wonder why color was a problem. I am anti-(alot of things) but color is not one.
Gender plays no negative roll either my standards although it seems its playing out its own roll throughout the various industries and as it has along with race in the recent stimulus package. There is money for jobs that are traditionally held by women and money for jobs specified that white males should not be the majority benefactor.
as for crushing cars,, i could give a . Crush em or keep em, just dont sell that s to china. Lets tool up and make stoves, fridges, toasters, bikes, engines , microvaves, dryers and washers. Time heals all ,,,,,,,
Good Day > paul harvey RIP.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: oldraven on March 02, 2009, 07:36:57 AM
Quote from: 86XR7project;259041
Wow, theres a strong point. Didn't hear anyone try to defend George W did we?
A person couldn't defend that guy if they tried. There was no defence, just global offence.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on March 02, 2009, 08:43:33 AM
I know what you mean, Scott, about some food products. Try to find a can of mushrooms that wasn't made in China. Can't be done around here.
If your upbringing was similar to mine, and you couldn't see why race was an issue, then you understand exactly what I mean by saying that "old fashioned values" are not necessarily good values. I was not suggesting that you're racist, just that there is no set standard for family values. A catholic family will want to raise their child with a different set of values than a protestant family, who will want to raise their child differently from a jewish family, etc. In other words, common sense should prevail. Morals should not be legislated because morals are too ambiguous to be legislated.
A good example of this would be polygamy. Most people think that polygamy is a bad thing, and indeed, it is a legislated moral. This law is based entirely on religious beliefs. There are several religions that permit polygamy, including certain southwest-central US-based religions (and also including several international-based religions). The constitution guarantees freedom from religious persecution, yet a person will be thrown in jail for polygamy, something allowed by his religion but disallowed by the "mainstream" religion. This is the type of hypocritical, contradicting law that comes from legislating morality.
Back on topic: You're too late about not sending crushed cars to China, BTW. That's where most of them go. I read in an article about shredding cars that most of the iron and steel (magnetic stuff) is separated here in North America because it's easy to do (simply use magnets) and then sent to China, but that non-ferrous materials are loaded onto a container ship and sent to China (or anywhere else in southeast Asia) to be separated by hand. They do this because it's a very labour intensive job that is too expensive to do with domestic labour. Once the materials are separated some of them are sent back to North America for manufacturing, but I'd bet most of it stays in southeast Asia...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: t3skidoo on June 19, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
Yesterday the local 'news' had a story regarding the cash for clunker bill.
Two things - first, the 'old' cars they showed were '84(?) Fords, a Mustang and T-bird! Ironic considering a TC will meet or beat most new American cars in the gas mileage dept.
Second, I'm wondering which cars are going to qualify. According to the talking head, the old car has to get worse gas mileage than the new car. Since most new cars don't get really good mileage ....
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: lakenheath24 on June 25, 2009, 09:59:48 AM
i was just checking business on CNN and it looks like the t-birds will qualify. If you go to Cars.gov and check the EPA estimates, these cars get 15-24MPG based on model. if your car is a serious hooptie and you can afford new car payments it would be a good deal. Thing is, once you trade it in, where does it go? Does the govt claim it or do the dealers got to suck it up? $3500-4500 is some good money for a t-bird after you've stripped it of good parts!
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on June 25, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
I was reading some of the provisions as well, and it looks like a big FAIL to me. Not because I fear it'll send our beloved 'Birds and Cougs to the crusher en masse (high s prices last year did that), but because it really won't do much. The incentive is only good for new cars, and applies instead of a trade-in value, not on top of. In other words, if your car is worth more than the "clunker" value it's not worth it to send it to the s pile. Most people buying brand new cars trade in cars that are worth more than the clunker allowance, and most of the vehicles this bill is designed to take off the road are large, expensive SUV's. Nobody with a 2003 Suburban is gonna trade it in for a $4500 clunker cheque when they can get $10k+ for it by selling it. Few people with 20+ year old cars are going for a brand new one (most people driving old cars are doing so because they can only afford old cars). Who, exactly, is this bill supposed to target?
Oh, and in a surprising amount of foresight, the government added a provision to the bill that states that the vehicle being traded in has to have been licensed and insured to the person trading it in for at least a year. This is to prevent people from buying a $500 truck and getting a $4500 voucher for it.
Linky with more information (http://"http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/25/autos/clunkers_reality/index.htm?postversion=2009062510")
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 25, 2009, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;279682
Few people with 20+ year old cars are going for a brand new one (most people driving old cars are doing so because they can only afford old cars). Who, exactly, is this bill supposed to target?
[/URL]
Hey I drive a 21 year old and 14 year old Thunderbird because I want to. I could afford a new car but screw it I'll save my money instead of giving it to a bank in payments and interest. Maybe I'm just crazy :hick: Plus if I had a new car what would I have to tinker with? Granted I'd only be trading in the 95 (there is no way in hell I'd trade in my 88 EVER) but then I'd have a new car that *won't have any problems* that I can thinker with;) Plus Ford no longer makes Thunderbirds so I have no incentive to buy a new car :p
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: lakenheath24 on June 25, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
This was done to appease the greenies without giving us scmucks a real deal. The whole thing looks stupid, which begs the question, are they really that dumb or are thet really that smart?
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: bhazard on June 25, 2009, 08:27:22 PM
I dont see what the big problem is. Its completely voluntary. I could see someone trading in their old beater pickup that belches smoke and gets 13 mpg and getting a new focus or cobalt for around 12-13g's instead of 16-17k. I myself would go for a base yaris if I wanted a cheap economy car but its USA-made only.
Its not like theyre gonna come knocking on our door telling us to give them our keys so they can smash our cars.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougar5.0 on June 25, 2009, 09:37:31 PM
Quote from: bhazard;279751
I dont see what the big problem is. Its completely voluntary. I could see someone trading in their old beater pickup that belches smoke and gets 13 mpg and getting a new focus or cobalt for around 12-13g's instead of 16-17k. I myself would go for a base yaris if I wanted a cheap economy car but its USA-made only.
Its not like theyre gonna come knocking on our door telling us to give them our keys so they can smash our cars.
Yes, the way it was done if fine IMO. Maybe it'll help sell a few cars - God knows the car companies can use the business.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on July 04, 2009, 02:50:42 AM
When pondering his most wanted car list,, here is a quote of the Grand National.........I love this.............
In a similar vein, the Buick Regal Type T speaks to me. It's missing the Darth Vader black paint job of the far dearer Grand National, but the turbo V6 remains. It embarrassed more than a few hot cars back in the day and seemed like a tasty, oddball car that somehow escaped from GM's skunkworks.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: cougarcragar on July 27, 2009, 09:01:34 PM
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Davemutt on July 31, 2009, 12:15:35 PM
The problem with this progam is that it gets added to the defecit that our children and grandchildren are being stuck with.
I have no problem helping people in need, and there are quite a few people that need help, but anyone that can afford a new car doesn't need a taxpayer-funded rebate.
And no, this won't jump-start auto sales as the talking heads have been saying all morning. When the program ends, people will stop buying until another rebate is offered. Domestic manufacturers have been stuck in the rebate rut for years and now our government is doing the same thing.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on July 31, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
Truer words were ne'r spoken. Kinda silly for one guy to subsidize another guy buying a new car. IMO, if the manufacturers are that hot for cash for clunkers they should band together and offer (and fund) their own program..
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Quietleaf on August 01, 2009, 12:10:37 AM
What bothers me about it are:
1. The dealers are required to destroy the engine and crush the car. 2. It takes affordable transportation off the road and away from the people who most need it. 3. It hurts people who wish to keep their cars by removing a source of parts.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on August 01, 2009, 01:44:28 AM
humm
so riddle me this one bat man,,,,,,,,,
lets give away super deals on interest rates so someone making 30k / yr can afford a 600,000.00 dollar house with payments spread across 30-50 years.
Phale
lets give away super deals on cars so someone making 30k/year can afford a new car payment (maybe even two) spread across 10 years.
Phale again.
lets give away incentive to the people to go into debt more with the money they dont have.
Phale.
I cant wait for everyone up on capital hill to drop dead.
Phale leadership. Phale people who didnt listen last fall , just wanted everyone to have a little bit of what i have so they dont have to work for it. Atleast some of those phale people are finally going the way of common sense as we tried to describe was coming all last fall. Its too late,,,,,,,,,,for now. Phale people aren't quite done fugging up my country.
its no wonder the rest of the world has our jobs. Free speech could be our only saving grace, otherwise we are to the way of england.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: oldraven on August 01, 2009, 09:58:34 AM
Well, they added another $2B to the program. All this is doing is propping up an already over-inflated industry.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Quietleaf on August 01, 2009, 01:32:51 PM
What an unbelievable waste. This car should be resold. To my eyes, this screams that there is overcapacity in the car market.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Ifixyawata on August 01, 2009, 01:59:52 PM
Yay! Guess we should all go out and buy new cars.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 01, 2009, 02:45:25 PM
I'd be interested in knowing exactly how sending hundreds of thousands of perfectly good vehicles to the crusher, and the energy required to transport them, crush them, sort them, re-refine their materials, and start all over making a new car (in China or Mexico, probably) benefits the environment.
I've often lamented how much of a "throwaway" society we've become, tossing a perfectly good computer in the trash because we got a better one, or sping a slightly damaged car because it's cheaper to buy a new one. Now this kind of behaviour is not only acceptable, but promoted by the government! Not only promoted, but worsened, by making it so those cars cannot be reused for any useful parts, unlike what happens to a wrecked/written off car. I only hope they don't impose that foolishness in Canada, because I'd be pissed off to think my tax dollars were subsidizing somebody else's new car...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Quietleaf on August 01, 2009, 03:01:11 PM
As for the program itself, I firmly believe that this is for keeping Detroit working. Maybe that's a sign that they could stand to shrink some. As for the buyers, it's sad, but there are a lot of people with the mentality that they just have to have something new. My aunt and uncle apparently can't stand living without vehicles that are less than two years old. They also have no savings, even though they owned a profitable furniture business for decades. I'm looking forward to supporting them in their retirement years :barf:
Unfortunately, we here are the weird ones in society. We actually get a ic kick out of taking something old and making it work like new, or making it do things it was never designed to do. Or maybe some of us were brought up to loathe waste (or both).
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 01, 2009, 09:26:03 PM
This is about the cash for clunkers and your computer! Now this is Nuts if you did the cash for clunkers I feel for you!
Stuckman
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Quietleaf on August 01, 2009, 09:56:39 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;284863
I saw that as well. I wonder if they're required to knife up all the seats and pee on the carpet for good measure, too?
My understanding is that the entire vehicle has to be crushed or recycled. Nothing gets saved.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 01, 2009, 10:15:39 PM
Incorrect. The syard can sell parts off the vehicle, just not the engine or drivetrain:
http://www.cars.gov/faq#category-14
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: EricCoolCats on August 01, 2009, 11:23:16 PM
Quote
Unfortunately, we here are the weird ones in society. We actually get a ic kick out of taking something old and making it work like new, or making it do things it was never designed to do.
Yeah...just like Cubans. :hick:
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on August 02, 2009, 10:46:59 AM
A caller on the talk radio station (shawn hanity)sp? said he tried to do the cash for clunkers program but the dealership said no.
Reason: The car must be drivin into the dealershp, not towed.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Cougars 2 go on August 02, 2009, 03:29:53 PM
To all you frugal types out there who want to buy a used car for under $4K - our government is forcing you to spend more.
To all you out there looking for a first car for under $4K - our government is forcing you to spend more.
To all you out there looking for a job and an inexpensive car for under $4K - our government is forcing you to spend more money you don't have.
I sure hope this doesn't have any long-term damaging effects after it's over. I can't wait till it's over. Sucks they threw more money at it.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 02, 2009, 03:34:07 PM
I was seriously thinking of turning in the '93 Grand Marquis, but got nixed when I found it's combined mileage was 19 mpg...
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Beau on August 03, 2009, 03:34:10 AM
Well, my '92 F150, sitting all neglected and half dead out in my shop might be a candidate...not.
My g/f was after me awhile back to sell it or junk it, then I saw this cash for crackheads..i mean clunkers ordeal, and immediately thought: "what a fuggin crock of shiznit!"
Just typical of Big Guvmint, who throw good money after bad, caring only about rules and not so much about results.
Well, what the hell, there may be 3 less 140 speedos left to go for 500 bucks on ebay....or that uncommon TC steering wheel you saw last week may now be mashed into the size of softball.
shaged up? yeah, it is.
The sad and pathetic thing is, there will ALWAYS be people who are brainwashed into believing that some bullshiznit idea is a good one.
With that note, I expect ever more legislation to be brought against "performance cars" and the enthusiasts that own them.
Let's see junior, your car can hit 120 in the quarter....burns too much gas doing it...pay 1500 extra in taxes or don't drive it...
Where's this utter stupidity going to end? :flame:
So all the energy used to s the usually good vehicles, crush 'em, haul em away to China, and then the raw metal be remade into an arguably cheaper, POS car is going to reduce greenhouse gas? I'll eat my T5 if so. And I really am not the best educated in economics, but I'm reasonably sure using this as a means to strengthen the economy is not all that great of an idea.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Masejoer on August 03, 2009, 09:13:18 PM
Quote from: ipsd;284864
This is about the cash for clunkers and your computer! Now this is Nuts if you did the cash for clunkers I feel for you!
Yeah.......not so much. Then again, most people WILL click on anything and let software that either says it will do something, or a trojan that says it will do something else, install on their system and phone home as often as it pleases. Even if something WAS installed on the system (Windows only of course, and likely Internet Explorer will be the only one that this works on), it isn't like there are a million and one ways to revert, remove, or deny access to the application. Useless news coverage.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Quietleaf on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 PM
Oh. My. God.
The $4500/$3500 from C4C is taxable as regular income. If you sold the car yourself on the street or just did a standard trade-in it wouldn't be taxable as income.
People are going to be *so* furious.
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on August 27, 2009, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: Quietleaf;288605
Oh. My. God.
The $4500/$3500 from C4C is taxable as regular income. If you sold the car yourself on the street or just did a standard trade-in it wouldn't be taxable as income.
People are going to be *so* furious.
Didn't see that one comin'.........:hick:
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 28, 2009, 08:06:02 AM
You didn't see it coming because it isn't true. Dear Lord, I wish people would verify things before spreading rumours around.
http://www.cars.gov/faq#category-06
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on August 29, 2009, 03:47:13 AM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;288646
You didn't see it coming because it isn't true. Dear Lord, I wish people would verify things before spreading rumours around.
http://www.cars.gov/faq#category-06
in another thread, i saw this one coming when one of our initial c4c threads were going,,or perhaps another related thread.
your thoughts now?
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 29, 2009, 07:10:37 AM
You've confused me, Scott (admittedly not a hard thing to do). MY thoughts on what?
Title: Cash for Clunkers plan pulled from stimulus
Post by: jcassity on August 29, 2009, 01:30:12 PM
taxable , the CARS program isnt taxable as income on the federal level as "claimed" for now but might / is at the state level depending on the state taxation laws.
two problems think i see.. 1- At the dealer, you pay tax on the sticker price and then after that, your rebate is added in.
2- A lot of states indicate that 3rd party rebates are taxable and should be entered as income on your yearly state tax form.
I guess my point is , this whole ordeal could be a cleaner cut so to speak in that anyone who partited should have paid taxes on thier car after the rebate was calculated. In additon, the states could have simply made an exemption for this instance. The states saw this coming in well before the consumer and was hoping for a pile of cash.
One indicator would tell me how much sucess the program had. If the states come out and say there will be an exemption, the the program did not meet thier expectations : ie-the potential revenue was not worth the hastle.
or.. on the otherhand, if the states do nothing, this would tell me that a substantial amount of cars sold and letting it go would wave bye bye to a lot of tax money: ie- the program was a success.