Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #30 – May 11, 2019, 02:12:34 PM now we are examining all things about this attachment. a doc we all contributed to over a few years,, this version includes specifics to the 2.3L as a result of lessons learned the hard way by one of our members Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #31 – May 11, 2019, 04:18:34 PM it appears that all these years the 3G upgrade this car has was never completed.we have a 3g alt installed.our yellow reg wire ends up landing on the starter relay (not really such a big deal,, voltage drop is my only issue... but it is still getting battery on this "A" terminal.our red wire is taking the long way around by following the upper rad core support,, i would have sent that large output wire in wire loop across the motor and groom it to the starter relay to eliminate about 9feet of wire.here is where it gets interesting.in our current config..... on the output stud of the alt, we have a large power wire that leads to the batt side of the starter relay. in parallel with that we have what appears to be an OEM brown/org wire that follows the long way around also but enters into the fire wall within the factory wire harness.we are taking the battery out now to examine wires in the loom under the battery tray. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #32 – May 11, 2019, 08:39:57 PM ok,, we are at a point of no more things to check.right now with no belt installed, the car runs as it should. our 3g alt wiring may not actually "look " correct but electrically it is not a problem.,,, and has not been a problem since it was done by the previous owner Privateer who is member.we did the following...undid the entire wire harness loom from the alternator , all the way across the upper rad core support and all the way around under the battery to visually inspect.continuity checked the alternator regulator yellow / white wire all the way up to the starter relay ring terminal with both ends disconnected.=passcontinuity checked the alternator regulator gray wire on either end and isolated, = passcontinuity checked both starter relay studs to chassis= open-passwe put the belt back on the car and monitored alt output voltage to be around 14.6vdc and gently increased RPM to see if the voltage followed throttle, it did not, it held right at 14.6 "ish" no matter the RPM so the alternator is regulating.at one point we had ran on battery for a while and when we put the belt back on , our alt voltage was around 15.2... too high to me,, - thoughts on this?????????what could be the problem..???????any reasonable troubleshooting would say either the alt or the wiring for the alt is faulty somehow.one thing i did not think of till now is i need to check the 3 pin connector at the alt from Pin to pin to see if the connector itself is failing. granted i need to isolate / disconnect both ends. Quote Selected Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 08:50:08 PM by james cassity
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #33 – May 12, 2019, 08:27:58 AM Are you sure the TFI and TFI harness are no longer wiggle or vibration sensitive.The belt driven stuff and the belt itself can vibrate. The air from the belt driven fan may wiggle the wires. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #34 – May 12, 2019, 10:34:33 AM i guess we are sure.... i dont really know how to answer... becausewithout a belt the car runs as it should without any cutting out at 3 or more K.we are troubleshooting again so i will check on what your asking and report back Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #35 – May 12, 2019, 10:50:35 AM response to your question,,, after tfi harness repair,, the harness was secured to a diagonal AC compressor brace,, then when the car was running the harness was handled aggressively to confirm it would no longer cut out the car. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #36 – May 12, 2019, 11:12:16 AM with belt installed and ***NO alternator connections made,, CAR RUNS AS IT SHOULD. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #37 – May 12, 2019, 11:20:00 AM with the sense lead plugged in and with a belt & flipping headlamps on/off--- CAR RUNS fine With sense lead and 3 pin connector plugged in and flipping headlamps on / off --- CAR RUNS FINE.this means that without an alternator dumping angry pixies onto the starter relay,, all is well.moving on to isolating which fuse link ring terminal re-introduces the problem by way of the alt output. Quote Selected Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 11:37:32 AM by james cassity
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #38 – May 12, 2019, 12:30:20 PM ok,, we just dd an isolated load bank test of the alternator.we have a belt onwe have the 3 terminal connector connectedwe have the 3g single wire terminal connected.we have the alt output cable disconnected and safely secured back.We connect the ground side of a 100watt load bank to the alt chassis. (a random spare headlamp bulb for some u/k vehicle)we have our positive side of our load bank ready but not connected. we start up the car and all is well, car runs as it shouldwe connect the positive side of our load bank to the alt output stud.the 100watt load bank blows!!!we measure the voltage on the output stud of the alt with no load attached since its now free spooling and it reads 35vdc.so all this points to the alternator.yet the alt seemed ok while in the car.will report back......mason is running a lot of LED converted bulbs in his car... including headlamps.I am starting to think that LED's and the power supply they have ,, that within those conversion circuits, if there is even a minor failure,,, the alt may end up under stress and this may cause the alt regulator to not be stable.this alt right not is prob only 3months old.all i know to this point is that the alt itself and its readings while the car was running hit 15.2vd one time and thats when our batter had been significantly used as the stand alone power supply. within a few seconds the alt regulated the voltage to around 14.7vdc .... still to me that feels a tad high. Quote Selected Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:31:52 PM by james cassity
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #39 – May 12, 2019, 03:22:17 PM mason took the alt back to advance ,,, they say its good.apparently box stores use automated testers now that depend on software and such to test an alternator.I did ask a total of three advance auto parts stores about their tester,,,i asked,, does your tester offer a step that tests with "NO" load. no one knows.the point i am making here is that mason came back from advance after being told the alt was good,, he tested the alt with no load and now he is getting around 45vdc.he is heading to autozone now, to have it tested there. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #40 – May 12, 2019, 03:33:57 PM With the alt output disconnected, the A input to the regulator is at the 12volt battery level. It increases the field current to try to raise the voltage to 14.2 volts. It has maxed the alt out with full field current trying to get it up to 14.2 volts. Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #41 – May 12, 2019, 03:37:51 PM what are your thoughts on our voltage readings with no load? Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #42 – May 12, 2019, 03:50:13 PM Quote from: james cassity – on May 12, 2019, 03:37:51 PMwhat are your thoughts on our voltage readings with no load?That's what I was trying to explain.The regulator is trying to raise the voltage to 14.2v but the voltage it sees at the A input stays at 12v.It has nothing to do with load. The regulator is not seeing the alt output, it only sees the battery output. Quote Selected Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 03:57:02 PM by softtouch
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #43 – May 12, 2019, 03:54:55 PM with no load, do you know if its normal to have 35 or 45vdc? Quote Selected
Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down Reply #44 – May 12, 2019, 04:09:26 PM What you are seeing has nothing to do with load.The regulator is maxing out the field current because you have disconnected the alt output.In other words, it can't see what voltage the alt is putting out.The regulator is only seeing the battery voltage. It is trying to raise the voltage to 14.2 volts.It keeps trying until it maxes out the alternator field current resulting the max voltage the alt is capable of. Quote Selected