Timing a possessed Cougar.

Topic: Timing a possessed Cougar. (Read 8757 times) previous topic - next topic

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #15 – November 20, 2012, 06:55:54 PM

The EEC IV distributor has no centrifugal or vacuum advance. Spark advance is controlled by the EEC via the SPOUT (SPark OUT) signal to the TFI (Thick Film Ignition) module. The base timing is set with the SPOUT disconnected. Base timing is 10° BTDC.

Do you know how your distributor works? Do you have a TFI or equivalent?

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #16 – November 20, 2012, 07:05:27 PM

No not really. The spout it unplugged. I'm getting soot on my plugs at both TDC and at 180 degrees off. My car will only run at 10 degrees ATDC. I've spent the whole day trying to figure it out and I end up right back where I started. I disconnected the IAC valve and it slowed down but the timing was still too far off. I turned the idle down to where it would barely run and the timing was too far off. I move the distributor both ways advancing and retarding by one tooth and it would not start. The only thing left to do is check out the TFI. I don't know if I will have time tomorrow, I have to go to a wake.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #17 – November 20, 2012, 07:07:01 PM

Did you change the timing set or anything of that nature when you were doing earlier upgrades?

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #18 – November 20, 2012, 07:16:16 PM

Quote from: 86cougar;402852

I grab the old trusty timing light and it is idling at about 10 degrees after TDC (????).

Is it possible you are misinterpreting the timing light?
If you are used to looking at engines where the timing scale is stationary it seems backward when you look at a moving scale.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #19 – November 20, 2012, 07:17:10 PM

Crazy88,
Funny you should ask. The answer is no, but I was outside (my headache and I) and though I have never worked on a vehicle with an EEC on it, all I could think was it's acting like the timing chain has skipped a tooth, maybe two. I'm getting soot on my plug on both strokes, the rag is getting blown out on both strokes and it only runs at 10 degrees ATDC. The part that amazes me the most is it runs!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #20 – November 20, 2012, 07:20:11 PM

Why in the world would the car not start with the timing set correctly???? Here we go again!!!!!

First of all why in the world would you replace a perfectly good ignition SYSTEM. That makes no sense whatsoever. You are on a learning curve for sure. But when you say it wont run when timed correctly what do you MEAN!!!! Does it not crank or crank hard. Or is it that the engine wont FIRE UP!!! You have to be more specific!!! Their is no way the engine wont start with the timing at 10* advanced. You are leaving something out. By the way what plug are you using to time this car???? just curious!!! And what DIZZY are you using and is it for an electronic application. It must be because the car runs and you need PIP for this to happen. What the HELL DO YOU MEAN BY THE SPRINGS YOU GOT RID OF ?????????? Once again i am confused and have a headache!!!

At this point dont disassemble you IAC. Doing that is not easy. It takes a lot of time and effort to do it. And if you dont have a spare dont do it. But it is the only way to clean and tune them!!! Try this with the IAC off the car try blowing through one of the hole. If you can blow through it it is SHOT or needs cleaning or tuning. But dont do this until you square your timing AWAY!!!

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #21 – November 20, 2012, 07:36:00 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;402925

Why in the world would the car not start with the timing set correctly???? Here we go again!!!!!

First of all why in the world would you replace a perfectly good ignition SYSTEM. That makes no sense whatsoever. You are on a learning curve for sure. But when you say it wont run when timed correctly what do you MEAN!!!! Does it not crank or crank hard. Or is it that the engine wont FIRE UP!!! You have to be more specific!!! Their is no way the engine wont start with the timing at 10* advanced. You are leaving something out. By the way what plug are you using to time this car???? just curious!!! And what DIZZY are you using and is it for an electronic application. It must be because the car runs and you need PIP for this to happen. What the HELL DO YOU MEAN BY THE SPRINGS YOU GOT RID OF ?????????? Once again i am confused and have a headache!!!

At this point dont disassemble you IAC. Doing that is not easy. It takes a lot of time and effort to do it. And if you dont have a spare dont do it. But it is the only way to clean and tune them!!! Try this with the IAC off the car try blowing through one of the hole. If you can blow through it it is SHOT or needs cleaning or tuning. But dont do this until you square your timing AWAY!!!

Tom, AFTER top dead center. It will ONLY run at 10 degrees AFTER top dead center.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #22 – November 20, 2012, 08:18:38 PM

Softtouch,
I have my timing marks painted in white. I have a feeling my timing chain jump a tooth a while back.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #23 – November 20, 2012, 09:01:04 PM

Time for me to buy a new engine, or have this one rebuilt.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #24 – November 20, 2012, 10:09:38 PM

Cougar, its a shame your in arizona. Many of the problems you've had are quite simple. A new engine isn_ going to fix anything. These old 5.0's last forever.

That sbftech link on how to properly time your 5.0 shows you step by step how to do it correctly. You have had your dizzy out, so you have no idea if its set right. Read the thread I posted for you, and come bac with any specific questions. If you follow it step by step, you can rule out timing.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #25 – November 20, 2012, 10:27:00 PM

Ok check the compression and post it ???? That will tell me if you have a chain issue. By the way is your timing chain installed PROPERLY and did you mess with that also!!! Even a car with a chain set incorrectly can be brought in to time. Something is going on here that makes no SENSE. So did you mess with the chain and or replace it at some point.

ARE YOU USING THE CORRECT CYL TO TIME THIS CAR??? Tell me which cylinder you hooked the light to??? And post a photo of the DIZZY. And the timing marks???

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #26 – November 20, 2012, 10:38:53 PM

Quote from: Haystack;402937

Cougar, its a shame your in arizona. Many of the problems you've had are quite simple. A new engine isn_ going to fix anything. These old 5.0's last forever.

That sbftech link on how to properly time your 5.0 shows you step by step how to do it correctly. You have had your dizzy out, so you have no idea if its set right. Read the thread I posted for you, and come bac with any specific questions. If you follow it step by step, you can rule out timing.

Well he claims he cant set it to 10* before so he has a timing issue. Clearly that is a FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless i am reading him incorrectly or he is using the wrong cylinder. Once again when the engine is running and you bring the marks in time the engine does WHAT??? Or is it you cant move the dizzy far enough to get it in TIME. I have a HEADACHE.

Check the Compression on one cylinder and post back. That will answer the question of a stretched chain or improperly installed.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #27 – November 20, 2012, 10:40:43 PM

here is a way to check how much slack is in your chain

dial in the crank to zero by going in the direction the crank normally turns while running.
now,,,,,,
rotate the crank the opposite direction and upon feeling it get kinda hard, stop......, trust me you will "feel it"
This will show you how far you can turn the crank before your actually causing the came to catch up with the crank,, because they are tied together with the chain.

now look at the harmonic balancer on the crank and tell us what degrees the pointer is pointing to.

this will tell you a whole bunch about the play you suspect in the chain.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #28 – November 20, 2012, 10:58:34 PM

oh yeah,,

remove plug number 1
remove dist cap
dial in the crank to zero deg TDC
look to see if the rotor is pointing to where the number 1 spark plug attaches "if" the cap were on.
If its 180deg off, rotate the crank again and redial in TDC and then you should see the rotor pointing towards #1 plug wire post "if" the cap were on.

stuff a garden hose in the spark plug hole and BLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you can blow air through the engine,, report back.... easy test.

if your timing chain jumped a tooth, then it will show up with this test because the valves will be lagging behind the movement of the driving force of the crank shaft.

Timing a possessed Cougar.

Reply #29 – November 20, 2012, 11:05:49 PM

Or just do a compression test!!! Jay lets not get technical. Chain slack is a good thing to check. I did not want to go their because he might be on OVERLAP with your test. Other than recording the stretch degrees. But a quick peak at the valves or a second rotation just might work to check cylinder sealing. Other than a leak down test the compression test will tell all. Thanks!!!