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Messages - Vintage

33
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / Re: There's Another Cougar in Town!
I think its aftermarket too, doesnt look much like the moonroof on any of the 87-8's that I've ever seen.

 On a collector car, aftermarket hole in the roof is a full stop deal breaker for getting any serious money out of it.  For a non-collector car, just an older but clean driver, no biggie as long as it doesnt leak and you dont break the glass in a hail storm, etc because replacement might be tricky or a full custom deal.

Ita my understanding that there were quite a few of the aftermarket sunroof manufacturers back in the 70's,80's and early 90's.  Its also my understanding that almost all of them are out of business and replacement parts impossible to source. Everything, glass, slide rails, seals, etc would be custom fit at this point.
34
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / Re: There's Another Cougar in Town!
Thanks for the info Eric.  Its interesting to find out how Ford phased in and out changes or options spanning model years.  Makes you wonder if the reason the sunroof cars are so rare was because the dealers didnt know they could order it, or if Ford just wasnt interested in pushing it as an option unless a buyer really insisted.
35
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / Re: There's Another Cougar in Town!
1986 sunroof car wouldn't have sliding shade for sunroof would it?  I had always thought factory sunroof up to 86 was the manual flip up or take it out style similar to what was used in the Mustangs until 93 (although they use a slightly different glass panel in both shape and size)  The factory sunshade on these was a louvered black plastic piece that fastened to the underside of the glass using quick finger release twist-locks at each corner.

The 87-8's went to an electric retract sunroof with the sliding shade.
36
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
Thats fine, everybody has to start somewhere, no need to apologize for it.  The reason I asked was that typically, pistons are not a wear item, whereas the piston rings are, especially if the engine had poor maintanence, excessive oil change intervals, was overheated, etc.

If the engine was well cared for, and inspection of main bearings, cyl bores, etc is all favorable, it is entirely possible that the shortblock could be run for another 100K miles as it is with replacement of the parts I mentioned above and no replacement of piston rings, bearings, block machining, etc. 

The gt40 cylinder heads should be inspected, have valve guides checked and new stem seals installed  at a bare minimum.  The valve seats, in my experience of taking apart probably close to 200 of these heads, are usually fine even with alot of miles due to it being a wide, single 45 degree seat. If however, the engine has been severely overheated, that can quickly change.

You can buy at most hardware stores a steel cup  brush that the shank can be inserted into a common power or cordless drill and used to quickly clean the gasket surfaces of both the aluminum intake and the iron heads. Use safety glasses. That goes double if you use the brush inserted into an air powered die grinder as the RPM will much higher. I dont even recommend it due to the risk of the brush violently seperating, but I know people do it anyhow. Alternatively, you can use the smaller roll lock discs with the correct mounting pad. The cup brush works better for cleaning irregular, non-flat surfaces.
37
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
Why do you keep asking about if you can use the pistons?  Its already been covered in this thread that people use the Explorer 5.0 motors all the time straight out of salvage yards without any changes other than to swap on the foxbody oil pan/pickup tube, timing cover/harmonic balancer/driven accessories, motor mounts, and conventional TFI distributor if using EFI. 

In the past, before I bought a salvage yard motor, I pulled and inspected all spark plugs, pulled the oil dipstick to see if it was varnished/stained from poor oil change intervals, and tried to have a look at the vehicles radiator to check for coolant breakdown/crud, another sign of poor maintanence. Maybe popped a valve cover off also.

 If all that looked good, I had a reasonably good chance of having a runner that I could use as is with a new oil pump, roller timing chain, new roller lifters, and a used HO cam or aftermarket cam if using better than gt40 heads, and some common sense inspection,cleaning, and upgraded the head bolts to ARPs with Fel pro blue stripe headgaskets.

If you didnt check any of that stuff prior to purchase, you're now just depending entirely on luck or taking their word for it that it ran okay before they pulled it.
39
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
Just as an aside, and for the benefit of the OP, if budget is truly a compelling and unyielding factor in your build, my recommendation would be to check your local drag strip or speed shop for a name and number of a reputable head porter in your area.

The Gt40 heads and lower intake can respond very favorably to a basic cleanup in the hands of a skilled porter, not break the budget, and put a healthy amount of additional power under the curve at all usable rpm points.

Aside from a T5 swap, the power gains from porting your listed components will yield the best bang for the buck.

On the heads:
*Valve bowl cleanup, valve guide bosses tapered, across all.
*If stock valves are serviceable, I've had good results on a 32 degree back cut on the intake valves that slightly reduces the width of the stock 45 degree seat cut.
*Light cleanup/squaring at the pushrod pinch on intake ports to allow smooth transition from ported lower intake.
*Carefully smooth and transition roof of exhaust port, with an eye toward centering valve in the port, since Ford production exhaust ports tend to be somewhat skewed to one side. There are water jackets close by in certain areas of the exhaust port, dont get too greedy here.

Lower intake:
*Blend in the short turn radius where the upper meets the lower.
*Straighten the #1 and 5 dog legs, blend the transitions.
*Keep port exits around a 1/16" smaller than cyl head intake port dimensions.

While this is only a fairly quick and very basic porting job as described, it will put a very worthwhile additional amount of cfm airflow thru the engine which should both broaden and raise nearly the entire curve, which is far more important than peak numbers anyhow.
40
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
Sorry, but the guy whose thread you linked to was posting dyno numbers thru a T5 which makes them inherently higher, he was using a tmoss ported explorer which is probably adding around 15-20hp, maybe better at the peak, and even people in the thread mentioned the dyno numbers sounded somewhat inflated.

Look, we can move goal posts all day to give OP the impression he's gonna crowd 300 rear wheel thru an AOD with an Explorer takeout motor sporting an E cam and a decent exhaust.  Not gonna happen, done it myself, watched I dont even know how many people do same/similar and been at the track to see the tale of the tape. If the OP is using an AOD, and is using the parts he listed, he'll be close to 200rwhp and nowhere near 300 on an accurate dyno without a fudged correction factor. I'm sorry but that is the limitations of that combo and that budget. 
41
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
Actually the Explorer 5.0 uses a steel tubular header that, while more convoluted in appearance and function than the steel HO header, is not a cast iron manifold.

For near stock motors such as this Explorer 302, typical aftermarket shorty headers have been shown repeatedly on dyno tests to add somewhere between nothing to 7-10hp depending on which rpm point on the curve you're looking at. Averaging the slight losses and modest gains of the curve nets you an overall gain of 6-8 hp, thats it.

Similarly, the average 2.5" H or X pipe will offer a 10-12 whp gain at best, again because this engine's output is not sufficiently high enough to be suffering huge losses from exhaust inefficiencies.

The E303 cam can offer gains of around 20 whp when used with well-ported factory heads modified to take advantage, primarily of the additional lift. Unfortunately, with the engine we are discussing, any valve lift past .480 isnt going to gain much if anything due to cyl head inefficiencies. In this motor, I'd be surprised if the peak gain was anything over 10 whp, with the average being less.

Together,I'd estimate these parts represent a potential gain for this motor of less than 30whp, which when added to the 175whp the engine is likely to produce when backed by an automatic trans, puts it at ~ 200 whp. Thats around 240hp at the crank, and I'm being generous here.

Fact is, like the drag strip, a chassis dyno run is a harsh introduction to reality for most everyone that hits it for the first or second time. I've worked hundreds of dyno and drag strip events.  Everyone thinks they will lay down a 12 sec pass or put down 300whp at least. For many, the reality is quite different.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here. Just understand that a 302 that makes 300 whp will need to be making between 350-375hp at the crank.  Poweradders like nitrous or turbos aside, a 300whp 302 is no accident and certainly won't be budget friendly.
42
Engine Tech / Re: Build approval someone please!
What Thunderjet said. The parts list is essentially an Explorer engine with the improvements of an E303, 1.7 rockers and better valvesprings. The stated goal is 300 wheel hp.

Ford rated the 5.0 Explorer and Mountaineers from the late 90s and early 2000s at 215 hp and around 280-5 tq.  Those are flywheel numbers, NOT measured at the drive wheels.

Even if we allowed for only an 18% loss thru the transmission and rear axle, the rear wheel numbers, at best, would be closer to 170hp and 230-240tq as a starting point.

We'd be asking alot to see an E303 cam and 1.7 rockers bring the needed 130hp deficit to the wheels to reach the 300.

This is a ~ 200whp motor, assuming good exhaust components and auto trans, thats all.
43
Lounge / Re: Paging Outsidedog..
 :headbang:   Hey Dog! Glad to see you back.

 Was just missing the updates on your Bird and thought you might have gotten discouraged, thrown in the towel, and bought an old turbo integra or civic.  :rice:
44
Lounge / Paging Outsidedog..
Anyone seen or heard from Outsidedog ??  Looks like his last activity on the board here was around 2 months ago. Think I sent him a PM a while back, gonna send another one.

 He had a good thread on his Bird goin in the Reader Rides forum. I know he took a screwin from that company Monster Transmissions, but I thought he had gotten his old one rebuilt and put back in, back on the road.

Im not on Faceplant or any other social media... Anyone?
45
T-Bird/Cougar Parts & Cars FOR SALE / Re: For Sale - 1985 Ford Thunderbird - 80k Miles
Where are you moving to?  That might help to get it sold if you are willing to trailer the car and meet the buyer at a mutually convenient point or you might be passing almost right by them.

FWiW, I'd def be interested in it if you were closer to FL, somewhere in the SE. Anyhow, I think you have a decent car at a decent price, but these cars are still a niche market type thing. The same is true of the Monte Carlos and Regals of the 80's timeframe, they have their fans, just not a ton of them, and even fewer that don't already have loaded garages. JMO, good luck.