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Topic: Holley Terminator X (Read 7918 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #45
Yeah, I can see about replacing the harness!

I haven't looked into replacement harnesses much, but on paper an all-in setup for the PiMPxs is $1400. Pure plug-n-play except wiring in a WB 02 (the leads are there though). Has self-learning like the Holley.

Wasn't sure if you'd looked into it and found some drawbacks down that avenue. I'd like to go standalone eventually and get a new harness too. I don't have an issue tuning an EEC-IV, but they're getting harder and harder to source.

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #46
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #47
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.

They have the fuel injector harness as a stock item. Looked at it back in 2018. I think it was $160. The main harness would be an order item. Just helped a friend install it in a 57, 5.0 TBird. Ordered it with 20ft wire so the computer would go behind the seat. Came with all the plugs at the engine and the computer side wild. Ran the cable from the computer to a terminal block. All the wiring came marked on each wire the full length. It might of been a special order. But they will build any combination you want.
1987 Turbo Coupe, 306, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Comp Cam, Trick Flow Pistons, Eagle Rods, Center Force clutch, T-5, 8.8 w/373 gears, and a bunch more

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #48
The two systems I looked at were the Holley and Megasquirt. The reason I picked the Holley was it came with the wiring harness and seemed to have pretty good tech support. I talked with the Holley rep a few times before I bought it. I did not know about the Pimp set up. I'm an old guy and not really a computer whiz so I'll have to leave the tuning to an expert. Holley told me it would come with enough information to get the car started and then it's self learning. With the extra sensors, fuel and oil, plus the two cables you might need to plug in a laptop it came close to $1400.
1987 Turbo Coupe, 306, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Comp Cam, Trick Flow Pistons, Eagle Rods, Center Force clutch, T-5, 8.8 w/373 gears, and a bunch more

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #49
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.
https://www.stinger-performance.com/store/pimp-harness-sequential-8

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #50
I am aware of the stand alone harness like the stinger, holley, and painless but that does not solve the problem for those that want to keep the OEM ECU and harness.  Last time I checked on Ron Francis' website (couple weeks ago) the OEM style injector harness is right at $315 now for a V8 car.  I called them and from what I understand they are not going to build any OEM style harnesses for Mustangs as they cannot locate a couple of the connectors.  Sucks as the stock ECU harness are getting more brittle by the day.  Issues with the OEM harnesses on the Mustangs is they connect to the dash harness but I do not know if that is an issue with the Birds and Cats although I would assume it would be.

I am only going down this rabbit hole as my '93 Coupe needs the ECU harness, injector harness, O2 harness and AC compressor harness.  All of them I bought used when I converted the car from a 4 cylinder and they are not in the best shape.

https://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/index.php?topic=41403.new#new


83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #51
When I did this last rebuild and went to re-install the wiring harness I said several prayers. I tried to remove the tape on the injector harness to check the wiring it came off in chips. Snap, crackle, pop. I gave up. Everything worked except the green/yellow from distributor to coil. I did make a new harness, using the existing plugs for the A/C clutch, manifold air temp, oil pressure.

If you're good with soldering you can make your own harness using MTW, (Machine Tool Wire) wire. Easy to solder and flexible. There are connectors available so you can replace the "salt and pepper shakers" wit an actual connector.

This is a pretty good, affordable crimper for any type of terminal you might encounter.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045spoogeLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I do have a PDF Catalogs of Ford electrical connectors. It shows the Ford connectors with the part numbers. You can find them if you Google "Ford Wiring Pigtail Kits". Most are PDF's. Unfortunately I don't think you will find any for our cars.
1987 Turbo Coupe, 306, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Comp Cam, Trick Flow Pistons, Eagle Rods, Center Force clutch, T-5, 8.8 w/373 gears, and a bunch more

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #52
Forum won't let me quote Aerocoupe. Odd...

I think the OEM ECU is still the tits. From a basic ECU standpoint it still kicks the piss out of any aftermarket system.
However, the physical ECUs are getting old and in shorter supply. Ford isn't making all of the connectors to be able to make a OEM-type new harness from scratch. You could still use COTS connectors and make a new harness, but that's quite a pain. I'm leaning towards going full aftermarket. I just don't want to deal with 32+ year old electronics when there are other options.

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #53
Forum won't let me quote Aerocoupe. Odd...

I think the OEM ECU is still the tits. From a basic ECU standpoint it still kicks the piss out of any aftermarket system.
However, the physical ECUs are getting old and in shorter supply. Ford isn't making all of the connectors to be able to make a OEM-type new harness from scratch. You could still use COTS connectors and make a new harness, but that's quite a pain. I'm leaning towards going full aftermarket. I just don't want to deal with 32+ year old electronics when there are other options.

I'm in agreement about the EEC-IV. The only aftermarket system I think is close is from Pro-M. It uses a new Ford processor, is OBD-II compliant, and includes a new harness. The two things that keep me from switching are cost ($2K) and I'm pretty sure it's not plug and play for our cars like on a Fox Mustang.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #54
Well I lucked out and got an NOS M-12071-C302 ECU harness along with the NOS injection harness, NOS O2 harness (manual and auto both) and the AC harness for $600.  Some minor wiring and it will be a drop in.  Anyhow, back to what the thread is supposed to be talking about and sorry for the hi-jack.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #55
I'm sorry for the delay in giving updates on my Terminator X install. The kit I used is the Holley, 550-937F. What should of taken a week ended up being 3 weeks. Ended up making a few repairs.
Checked the old engine harness and it would not of lasted much longer. Even had one burnt spot where a bunch of grounds were tied together. Be careful removing the old harness. You will need #10, pk/lb and #54, o/lg from the old computer plug to control the A/C.
First off if you decide to go this route there are a few things you'll need that are not in the kit. One is a "Y" CAN connector and the other is a CAN to USB cable. Both available from Holley. They will run about $90. Using these will allow you to plug in your laptop and use your monitor while tuning. The other are the oil pressure and fuel pressure sensors. Holley has them but they cost $135 each. They are proud of their stuff. I found them on ebay for $65 each. The ones from Holley are 100lb and the ones I found were 150lb. You can change the setting in the programing. They are considered "optional". They will give an "error code" on the monitor if not used. You will also need an upper intake gasket. If you have MAF installed you will need to fab a pipe to replace it. In my case I have a BBK cold air system through the fender. BBK does make an adapter for this and it costs around $80. I have about $1500 invested without tuning.
I decided to mount the monitor where the clock goes. Made a plate, used Velcro to attach the monitor. If I decide I don't like it easy to reinstall the clock. I mounted the computer in the bottom slot where the system sentry went. Almost a perfect fit width wise and just made a blank plate to fill the void under it.
The install is pretty easy and pretty much follows Holley's instructions. The cable they have for the oil pressure sensor is too short to reach the sensor mounted by the oil filter. Just cut and extend it by a foot. Make sure and follow their instructions and connect the power wires to the battery.
Start up and tuning is where I get lost. I had Andrew Borodin do the start up and tuning. He was recommended through the Holley Terminator X Forum. My cost was $475. Worth every penny. He is excellent and easy to work with. I know it says "self learning" but that is not entirely true. First we ran into a problem starting the car. It wouldn't. Found out it was because I was using a vacuum canister. (You need a manifold vacuum signal). Disconnected it and spliced the hose. With my laptop plugged into the car Andrew took it over to set up the computer. Several settings are only accessible through the computer before you start it. Andrew had me install a fixed orifice PCV and move the MAT sensor from the intake manifold to my cold air pipe about 3in before the throttle body. (The wire is long enough to do this). This is not in the Holley manual.
The rest, to me, was magic. Andrew had it running about 2hrs later. After several driving sessions he had the fuel mapping set up. If you have A/C you will need to connect the old #10, pk/lb, to the white/blue stripe in the passenger foot-well. This will allow you to come to a stop with the A/C on and not kill the motor. This will have to be set up in the programming. There is also a A/C Shutdown output to kill the A/C in WOT. I did not connect it because, in my case, did not need it.
I have had 2 problems since. One was caused by a new Ford TPS, replaced it and the other was the TFI module, replaced it with one from MSD.
The car runs great. Way better than with the A9L. In my case it was well worth installing the Terminator X. You can spin the tires in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Idle is 870-900. Timing is controlled by the computer, initial is 14*. AFR is 14.6. IAC is controlled by the computer. Gas millage is around 12mpg on premium. Plug and play? Not quite. I have about 400 miles on it with no problems.
1987 Turbo Coupe, 306, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Comp Cam, Trick Flow Pistons, Eagle Rods, Center Force clutch, T-5, 8.8 w/373 gears, and a bunch more

 

Re: Holley Terminator X

Reply #56
Finally found my post. Been awhile and thought I'd give an update on my Terminator X install. I've had a couple of problems since my install.
One was the car randomly shutting off. Kind of like killing the ignition. That one had me going nuts. Every time you tried to troubleshoot it the car would run perfect. Ended up replacing all the common parts. Every time it would run, you never knew when it would shut down. Had it towed back to the house twice on a rollback. Had Andrew Borodin, did the tuning, check it out remotely and the car ran with no issues. Finally called Holley Tech Support after having it towed home once again. After a couple of hours troubleshooting the computer just shut off. Sent the computer back to Holley. They could not get it to repeat the problem but did reinstall the new software. Two weeks later I reinstalled the computer, Andrew installed the tune and the car ran once again. Still do not know what fixed it. Time to celebrate? Not quite.
The joy lasted about 76 miles. Went out in the garage to start the car, turned over but no start! Back to Holley Tech Support. By the way the guys at Holley were excellent every time, knew the system and how to troubleshoot it. This time they found that the on board MAP sensor was not responding. They decided to send me a new computer. I waited until I had the new computer to take mine out. I installed mine in the bottom slot, by the shifter so I had to dismantle the vertical console. When I removed the computer I found the plastic adapter that Holley supplies for the MAP sensor connection had broken in half. Thus no vacuum signal. It now has a brass fitting and the car runs great, again.
The only other change I have made is to have the seats re-upholstered, dark blue sides with a gray patterned center section.
1987 Turbo Coupe, 306, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Comp Cam, Trick Flow Pistons, Eagle Rods, Center Force clutch, T-5, 8.8 w/373 gears, and a bunch more