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Topic: My new dash panel...... (Read 6062 times) previous topic - next topic

My new dash panel......

Reply #60 –
Or run the button hot to the solenoid, like was said in the beginning. Now your adding one more thing to go wrong, and you may not remember why or how it's wired.
Plus you got splices all over, that if not done correctly will fail, and be a bitch.
Old Grey Cat to this.88 Cat, 5.0 HO, CW mounts, mass air, CI custom cam, afr165's, Tmoss worked cobra intake, BBK shorty's,off road h pipe, magnaflow ex. T-5,spec stage 2 clutch, 8.8 373 TC trac loc, che ajustables with bullits on the rear. 11" brakes up front. +

My new dash panel......

Reply #61 –
Vinnie, both options have benefits,

My new dash panel......

Reply #62 –
Quote from: Kitz Kat;265802
Or run the button hot to the solenoid, like was said in the beginning. Now your adding one more thing to go wrong, and you may not remember why or how it's wired.
Plus you got splices all over, that if not done correctly will fail, and be a bitch.


He's just dead set on using the relay,, its a kit.  Based on TC's measurements,,, its an option.

My new dash panel......

Reply #63 –
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;265600


The last time I did a draw test on a Ford starter relay's coil circuit (back in trade school, on my '85 V6 Bird) it drew 150mA while cranking. That's not enough to put much of a load on any switch...


FYI, I just did a test with my clamp on, the red light blue wire has 2.9A during crank using my Ideal 61-768.  Power annylizer should show the inrush but thats overcomplicating simple stuff.:rollin:

Im sure the push button can handle that by way of just using the push button alone.

TC, is the red/lb wire what you tested in trade school,, ?

My new dash panel......

Reply #64 –
Vinnie: You can ignore what I'm about to type here, because it's got little to do with the connections you need to make. Reading the mumbo-jumbo below will only serve to confuse you more. Simplify! Simplify!

Scott: The R/LG wire feeds everything that you want to have power during cranking AND running. This includes the ignition coil, gauge self-test circuit, etc. It is one of two RUN feeds from the ignition switch. The other is the large grey/yellow stripe wire I mentioned earlier (not shown in your diagram). That one feeds accessories you want to operate while running but NOT while cranking (blower motor, etc). This ensures full voltage to the starter and coil during cranking without some of those other accessories drawing (in the old days of ballast resistors it also would have bypassed the resistor in this position so the coil got full voltage). To see what I mean, go out to your car, turn on the fan and the wipers, turn the key to RUN, and note that everything is working. Now move the key to START and you'll notice that the wipers (which are on the ACC circuit) and heater (which are on the RUN circuit) momentarily stop while you're holding the key in "START". If you've got EATC the display should briefly go blank as well.

The ignition switch is very complicated. Don't think of it as a single switch, think of it as several switches together (multi-pole) that do different things depending on several possible positions (multi-throw). Each depiction of a switch inside the ignition switch assembly is indeed a seperate switch. The dotted line between the arrows (wipers) indicates that all of the wipers are mechanically (NOT electrically) connected. This simply means they all move at the same time when you turn the key - in other words, when you turn the key to "START" all of the switches inside the ignition switch are in the START position. The START position makes some connections (the one to the starter, the R/LB and BR/PK wires) and breaks others (the ACC and RUN- grey/yel  feeds). There is also a ground-switch inside the ignition switch that feeds the "BULB TEST ground circuit during, and only during, START.

The red/light green wire and the brown/pink wire are the same point electrically regardless of the position of the ignition switch - you'll note that they are connected together at splice 129.

The START/IGN page of the ETM is not the place to look for ignition switch information. You should be looking at POWER DISTRIBUTION (I don't have my EVTM handy so I don't know what page it's on).

As for your thoughts about having a way to crank the engine without fuel/spark, Ford has already given us a way of doing so by mounting the starter relay right there on the fender. It's going to be far easier to use that point with a remote start button than it is to climb into the car every time you want to crank it. There are very few times, if any, that you'd ever want to crank the engine from inside the car without the intention of starting it. There are many times, however, where you won't want that switch active unless the key is in. Kids in the car is one example. Thieves in the car is another. Yes, the car won't start, but the battery will be killed from trying. And if the clutch switch was not installed correctly during the T5 swap the car could even take off and hit something.

All that being said, this arguing is making it very confusing for poor Vinnie, when it doesn't have to be. It's a simple circuit with only a few simple connections required, and overthinking it is not getting Vinnie any closer to having his magic button installed. My diagram above shows how the vendor of the switch kit intended it be installed. I stand by my recommendation that it be installed that way. Earlier in this thread, when I said no relay was required, I said so based on some not-clear info from Vinnie (He told me there were three coloured wires and some grounds, I assumed they all came from the switch, didn't know there was a switch and a relay).

As for the draw on the solenoid/relay: The test was done in 1993, on a light sage green V6 carbureted Thunderbird. The test was done by pulling the small connector off the relay, then jumping the battery directly to the terminal with the ammeter in series. That's about all I remember of it. I don't even remember what the teacher was trying to prove with this test (I think it had something to do with "pull in" VS "hold in" windings).
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

My new dash panel......

Reply #65 –
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;265813
All that being said, this arguing .


I tried and failed at hoping you werent thinking like that.. You said you enjoy this kind of stuff, so do i.  Lack of voice on hand here on the net makes my wording look bad i guess.

My new dash panel......

Reply #66 –
I never saw you two arguing,just different ideas on the same subject.We are all good.

Confused................yes I am.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My new dash panel......

Reply #67 –
Scott, I meant no disrespect with what I said, I was simply trying to get this wrapped up for Vinnie's sake. I didn't mean "argument" in the Red VS Blue sense, I just meant that we're giving him much more information than he needs, and the unneeded information is pushing the needed information out of his head :hick:
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

My new dash panel......

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;265821
I just meant that we're giving him much more information than he needs, and the unneeded information is pushing the needed information out of his head :hick:


This is true.LOL.I had quite a few confusing looks on my face reading all of this. Gayle (my woman) asked if I was alright at one point.I said "read this"......she said "Oh,I see".LOL.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My new dash panel......

Reply #69 –
O.K !!!!!! I was hooking up the wires for the push to start button,and of course,SOMETHING has to screw up.All of the sudden,my stereo came on with the key out,and won't go off (I had to disconnect the battery).I disconnected the wires I hooked up for the button,and no change.There's a little black and pink wire with a plastic clip that looks as though it goes to where the key cylinder is that broke off at the plastic clip.What the F is this for?This is really g me off.I should have known.What would cause the stereo to stay on ??? I can't find any wires that look like they are shorting out or touching anything they shouldn't.I didn't touch any wires under the dash that go to the stereo.Now,Every time I stop the car,I have to disconnect the battery to get out.All because I couldn't figure out two friggin' wires.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My new dash panel......

Reply #70 –
Try unplugging your ignition switch, Vinnie, and see what happens. There is the chance that the switch was about to fail and it just did. Also check the plug on the switch to see if it's burned or distorted. I've actually seen this happen before. If you unplug the ignition switch and the radio goes out, DO NOT PLUG IT IN AGAIN. Get a new switch immediately.

If you tapped into the wires given above you can't power up the radio - it's on the "ACC" circuit, not the "RUN" circuit. The black wire is connected to the "key in" switch and causes the car to make that annoying sound when you're trying to listen to the radio with the door open.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

My new dash panel......

Reply #71 –
I got it,I got it !!! One of the yellow wires (the big ones) came out of the ignition plug (The one on the corner).I plugged it back in in the corner,but the wrong one.I put it back next to the other yellow wire,and WOO-HOO !!!!!!!,everything is as it should be,push to start is a GO,and all is back together.I need to clean up the car and take some pics now.

I owe you and jcassity (Scott Man) a large THANK YOU !!!! You guys came in and took the time to help out and find out what I needed to know when you didn't have to at all.THANK YOU again.You guys stepped up and RAWK !!!!
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

My new dash panel......

Reply #72 –
Excellent. Enjoy your shiny new button :D
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

My new dash panel......

Reply #73 –
Thanks a lot.One more project finished.On to the trunk.............
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..