351 swap into 86 bird February 16, 2009, 11:25:08 PM im getting a 351w and a c6 free from a friend, it is a 4v HO truck engine, has 4wd pan. complete engine from accessories to carb, to manifolds. had the heads re-done about 1k miles ago. here is my dilemna. my car is a project car so im in no hurry, i also dont have much cash to spend. im trading out my trans building experience for this engine/trans. im looking to do this as cheap as possible. here are the questions i havecan i use gt40p heads on a 351w? they have 3/8" head bolt holes, can the bolt holes be drilled to 1/2" size so it can work? i have no idea what headbolt size is on the 351. i have a set of bbk equal length shorties for a 302 in a fox car. could these be used? or do i need to have factory 351w manifolds or 351 swap manifolds?? will the 351w longtubes work with a c6 trans?? is there a possibility to use the oil pan, i believe i could use a 351w crown vic oil pan (same as the motorsport pan swap kit), what year crown vics??what engine mounts do i need to use? i know the bird mounts use fluid filled and the stang mounts are the solid rubber kind, which i think are better, can i use the stang mounts??i have searched around the forum, have seen similar questions, followed by answers of buy this part from said company. id like to do this as cheap as possible. i have time and very little money for this project, so im not scared to scavenge the junkyard for hours on end to spend $20 bucks for the part im looking for rather than taking 10 minutes to click and spending $200 or more. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #1 – February 16, 2009, 11:57:01 PM 302 and 351W use the same mounts. Mid 1986, the K-member mounting are changed from the stang style to the 86.5-88 Fox bird style. C6 is big, headers might need to be designed to fit around such a thing. Nothing a BFH can't fix? Oil pan is a earlier 80's Crown Vic Police model, IIRC. Rear sump can clear with modification.....Are you good with a welder? Others may chime in. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #2 – February 17, 2009, 12:04:50 AM im decent with a welder, but i have a cheap welder, and dont want to weld an oil pan, i'd rather heat and beat with a hammer. i plan on dropping it in and seeing what hits soon. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #3 – February 17, 2009, 01:39:33 AM Woah...a man after my own heart. OK lots of questionsQuotecan i use gt40p heads on a 351w? they have 3/8" head bolt holes, can the bolt holes be drilled to 1/2" size so it can work? i have no idea what headbolt size is on the 351.Yes you can use GT-40P heads, 351 windsor is 1/2" so drill the P heads.QuoteI have a set of bbk equal length shorties for a 302 in a fox car. could these be used? or do i need to have factory 351w manifolds or 351 swap manifolds?? will the 351w longtubes work with a c6 trans??The headers for GT-40 P heads are of a special nature since the heads have different plug angles, the 302 headers may or may not fit depending on when they were built. Most likely NO. The headers would most definately not fit in the car what so ever. You need 351 swap headers. I do not know if anyone but FRPP has a set to fit 351W in a fox w/ GT40P heads. I would trade the P heads for a set of GT-40's even though they flow worse and use any swap header you can find.Quoteis there a possibility to use the oil pan, i believe i could use a 351w crown vic oil pan (same as the motorsport pan swap kit), what year crown vics??I think it's 78-92 for Crown Vic/Grand Marquis??Quotewhat engine mounts do i need to use? i know the bird mounts use fluid filled and the stang mounts are the solid rubber kind, which i think are better, can i use the stang mounts??Ditch the T-Bird K member and use a fox mustang, that way you can use the motor mounts. The bird mounts with the goofy fluid filled mountshiznits everything related to exhaust otherwise. They have to go.Hope this helps!!! Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #4 – February 17, 2009, 07:18:11 AM Quote from: Lightningbird;257216Ditch the T-Bird K member and use a fox mustang, that way you can use the motor mounts. The bird mounts with the goofy fluid filled mountshiznits everything related to exhaust otherwise. They have to go.Hope this helps!!!Or he can keep his K, and use a set of Chuck's mounts... Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #5 – February 17, 2009, 07:55:06 AM Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;257225Or he can keep his K, and use a set of Chuck's mounts...I dunno how much Chucks mounts would help, they should gain some clearance but the Stang/early Bird cross member would be better... Unless you're a whiz at fabbing look for the swap headers, the 351 is taller and any 5.0 header is too short... Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #6 – February 17, 2009, 08:10:00 AM I used 351w shorties from BBK, for a Mustang. They have been known to clear the plugs on the P heads also.:D Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #7 – February 17, 2009, 05:24:47 PM budget officially thrown out the window, lol. :hick: Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #8 – February 17, 2009, 11:02:49 PM Quote from: Lightningbird;257216Woah...a man after my own heart. OK lots of questionsYes you can use GT-40P heads, 351 windsor is 1/2" so drill the P heads.The headers for GT-40 P heads are of a special nature since the heads have different plug angles, the 302 headers may or may not fit depending on when they were built. Most likely NO. The headers would most definately not fit in the car what so ever. You need 351 swap headers. I do not know if anyone but FRPP has a set to fit 351W in a fox w/ GT40P heads. I would trade the P heads for a set of GT-40's even though they flow worse and use any swap header you can find.I think it's 78-92 for Crown Vic/Grand Marquis??Ditch the T-Bird K member and use a fox mustang, that way you can use the motor mounts. The bird mounts with the goofy fluid filled mountshiznits everything related to exhaust otherwise. They have to go.Hope this helps!!!thanks for the info. if i cant use stang mounts with the stock k-member, then i will use the stock mounts for now, and upgrade later. i planned on gettin a k-member from an fox body anyway , and front suspension from a newer stang, but that is later down the road. as far as heads go im prolly gonna stick with the stock 351w heads that are on the engine now, since they have been freshend up, this is not a big hp engine im putin in, this is get an engine in the car so the car can move on its own, im tired of pushing the car around.Quote from: HAVI;257313budget officially thrown out the window, lol. :hick:at this point in time, its either budget stays or the project doesnt move any farther. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #9 – February 17, 2009, 11:27:45 PM forgot to mention i have equal length shorties and matching h-pipe that i may ""try"" to use in this build. i know the h-pipe probably wont work since the manifolds are up higher and outward but, a saw and a welder will take care of that, and the center tube is only clamped together not welded so that can be adjusted. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #10 – February 17, 2009, 11:27:50 PM Quote from: kwellst;257413thanks for the info. if i cant use stang mounts with the stock k-member, then i will use the stock mounts for now, and upgrade later. i planned on gettin a k-member from an fox body anyway , and front suspension from a newer stang, but that is later down the road. as far as heads go im prolly gonna stick with the stock 351w heads that are on the engine now, since they have been freshend up, this is not a big hp engine im putin in, this is get an engine in the car so the car can move on its own, im tired of pushing the car around.at this point in time, its either budget stays or the project doesnt move any farther.That's how mine goes.....really slow progress (over a year now, and not a single part permanently bolted on) A tube K-member will allow for more header clearance, too.Feasibly, accessories, C6 trans cooling lines, and oil pan are all you'll need to make it fit. The rest would be a matter of hooking everything up. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong on this. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #11 – February 18, 2009, 01:00:31 AM You could score a cross member for maybe $40. I would not see spending more than that. You just need one from a mustang, fairmont, midsize LTD, 85 and older Bird or cougar...the options are almost limitless. It is easier to find that cross member than the one you have. Your suspension will still bolt to it, so it is $40 and a days work. Then just buy a complete swap kit and done!!! I do not see where this crushes anyones budget. If your budget is less than this...maybe it's time for a new hobby.I have been building mean cars outta junk my whole life....and I cannot see where this is not cheap. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #12 – February 18, 2009, 09:29:16 AM You have a good point. That IS cheap. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #13 – February 18, 2009, 07:12:25 PM yea that is cheap. im trying to do this on a small budget. ive got almost 1k to drop this motor in the car, i could buy everything i needed to set the motor in, but i wanted to see what junkyard parts i could get to set it in the car and save some of that money for things that need to be replaced on the car. Quote Selected
351 swap into 86 bird Reply #14 – February 19, 2009, 02:58:05 AM Use the K-member a set of swap mounts and the Crown vic oil pan. Make your headers fit, if possible. That's as cheap as it gets and I hope it works! Quote Selected
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