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Topic: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0) (Read 8322 times) previous topic - next topic

Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

The 5.0 in the Bird I was trying to bring home yesterday was getting oil in the throttle body, presumably from a tube hooked to the oil filler on the passenger side valve cover. Even after less than a minute of rough running, there was a significant amount of oil in there. Is that tube even supposed to be there? I thought that was the PCV setup.. but in this exploded view on the Haynes manual, it shows the PCV valve at the back of the lower intake manifold. This tube is running from the oil filler neck up to the throttle body. I don't know if this is the correct setup, because I've never done any work on (or even seen up close, for that matter) a SEFI 5.0. (anything I've ever done has been with carbed or EFI 4s and 6s, and carbed V8s like my old '64 FE 390)

The car would take forever to start. When it did start, it had to be restarted several times. Finally it would run long enough for the previous owner to drive it around the block a few times. It would alternate between bogging down badly and running fine. We should have mostly eliminated its other problem (bad gas) by now, since we put a full tank of premium in it and a can or two of injector cleaner, plus a new fuel filter. (the bad gas in the tank was only about 2 gallons)

I *need* to get this figured out before Friday. I need to get it here Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.. because it's parked on the front yard of the seller's neighbor. We don't want to impose on his goodwill for too long. I may end up having to drive this back from Lauderdale, if I can't make towing arrangements with friends. (I am not comfortable with towing anything myself.. not for 180 miles.. and neither is my fiance, who would likely be my second driver in such a scenario) I'm going to ask a friend with an Explorer he claims has the police package in it if he'd be willing to help me tow it back on Friday. If he can't, then I have to figure out how to drive it back here on the weekend.

If I do end up driving it back, I had planned on picking up a fresh set of plugs plus a spark plug socket (don't have one as of now.. had planned to pick one up when I got plugs for my V6, but I keep putting that off in favor of other things) to take down, along with a PCV valve.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #1 –
Yes the hose is supposed to be from the oil filler to the TB. Blowing oil out of the oil fill usually means one of two things...

#1 the engine has extremely bad rings(does it smoke out the exaust?).

#2 the oil drains in the heads are plugged up with sludge, and the valve cover is full of oil.

A plugged up pcv system can contribute to blowing oil, especially if either one of the above conditions exist.

The PCV is in the rear of the intake and there is a screen under it that is likely plugged with sludge. We just recently had a discussion about it in another thread.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #2 –
No, doesn't really smoke.. but later in the day when we were trying one last time to get it running, it smelled pretty bad.

I'm not fond of the thought of this next question, but in light of the situation (working on it 180 miles from home, needing to do everything within a few hours, etc.) it's the only option if we can't secure some towing: Is there a quick fix that would allow us to stop the oil blowing long enough to get it through the 2.5-3 hour drive home?

Now that you mention it, there's a problem with oil coming out the valve cover gaskets on the 5.0.. even with the valve cover bolts very loose on my V6, it didn't put oil out like that. Am I correct in guessing that this is another possible symptom of the plugged oil passages?

Another note: The previous owner told me that one mechanic refused to work on the engine because they noted "internal noises" that they thought indicated something too big for them to fix. They also said something about the #7 cylinder.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #3 –
Just my opinion, but I think you need to try to trailer that bad boy if at all possible.

Around here you can find trailers for $25-$45 bucks a day.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #4 –
Yeah, I'd prefer towing at this point.. if I can get a friend who's more comfortable pulling a trailer or car over the interstate than I am. But, it might not happen.. so I have to plan for alternatives.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #5 –
Yea you probably ought to tow it, limping for 50-60 miles is one thing, but 180 is a long way... I'm really doubting this car can take a 65-70mph jaunt up the interstate. But then if it did, it probably ain't that bad off.

Only solution for plugged drains is to remove the valve cover(s) and dig the sludge out. No engine flush is gonna really help, and if it did the sludge would all be in the oil pan to stop up the pump pick up.

You could try to snug up the bolts on the valve covers(don't go crazy), and make sure it can breathe out of the pcv system in the back of the manifold. Ought to help the oil blowing somewhat. Did you note a noise in the engine?? It could have a cracked piston(forgot to mention that one) or ring and blow oil badly.

I think I'd be checking into one of those two wheel tow dollys. I about rented one in Woodbine GA to tow the daughters Mustang back to VA. She had been told the engine was seized up. When I got down there, found the P/S pump had seized. I bypassed the pump pulley with a short belt and drove it back.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #6 –
Even if you are a little nervous about pulling a trailer you will be safer pulling the car on a trailer than you would be trying to nurse a sick car that distance.

Besides you get the whole trip down to practice with an empty trailer.

Just slow things down and make your turns wide and you will be fine.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #7 –
Around here the auto hauler only costs $10 more than the 2 wheel dolly (from U-Haul).  Well worth it in my opinion.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #8 –
Would it be a hideously bad thing to try and plug up that hose between the oil filler and the throttle body, and then do everything else you suggested? (new PCV, tighten valve covers)

No, I didn't notice any unusual engine noises. However, I'm not really familiar with how a 302 SHOULD sound under the hood. Once it ran, it sounded fine to me.. no glaring bad noises.

Around 6:30 or so (in about 45 minutes) I'll be calling up the friend I had in mind to try and tow this back. Let's hope his upcoming days off have a few hours to spare.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #9 –
OK, that friend COULD tow it if we get a dolly or full trailer. His '96 Explorer has the towing package and a receiver hitch. Problem is, he's not off work until Tuesday and Wednesday, (he now has different days off that I didn't know about) and on Tuesday he's having a root cbuttstuff. Still need to get this done as soon as possible, so as not to abuse the goodwill of the neighbor letting this thing sit on his lawn. Wed. is probably pushing it a little, but I think if I let them know well in advance, they may not be bothered much. We'll see.

I have another friend with connections to a local towing company, and I'm waiting for a call back from him.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #10 –
Getting back to the possibility of having to drive it: (I have to plan for both possibilities) The friend who could possibly tow it also talked about the possibility of the diesel trick.. putting some diesel in the oil filler and running it carefully *just* before having the oil changed. I've seen lots of polarized opinions on that one.. people swearing by it, and people saying it's the dumbest thing you could possibly do. But IF I were to do such a thing, and then drive it to a quick oil change place, do you think the car SHOULD be alright to drive after that, assuming no other problems? (with fresh oil after the diesel trick, a new set of plugs, and a PCV valve)

We both agreed that it's probably not a good idea to drive it while those passages are blocked.. so if I can't deal with that problem, I'll be forced into the towing option.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #11 –
The other friend brought up paint thinner instead of diesel. However, he also said that he would be hesitant to use it on a car with 167k miles.. that it might wash away a few deposits that would be better off left alone, say in a possible scratch in a cylinder wall or something like that.

Nothing more on the towing front, except to find out that the towing companies here are really slammed right now, probably still hauling away destroyed vehicles from Charley. Took that friend 2 weeks just to get his relative in the towing business to do a favor for him and tow a vehicle out of town, he was that busy. If we do any towing, it'll have to be through the first friend.. who also mentioned a guy at his work might have a dolly.

I have concerns about towing a RWD car on a dolly, though. My friend said tow it backwards and let the steering wheel lock, but I'd be concerned if it didn't lock on dead center. Oh well.. this friend used to be in the towing business, so I guess I should just put faith in his abilities.

Think I'm gonna be a wreck until this car gets here.. I was for the few days between getting the offer and going down to see it yesterday.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #12 –
In any case io you were to try to flush the engine, the oil pan and valve covers should be pulled immedatly after flushing. I've never seen any of the flushes, diesel fuel, auto trans fluid, etc. really help much on plugged drain back passages in the heads.

May be Ok to plug it up, but make sure the PCV is open in the back of the intake. At any rate I wouldn't do it unless its still pushing oil out after the PCV is open.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #13 –
Is there any sort of breather/filter I could put on top of the filler neck in place of the screw-on cap that might also help get it going, if I have to plug up that line and drive it?

Are you advocating replacing the PCV for that, or just pulling it out completely and letting it hang?

I probably couldn't just crack open the valve covers right there on the spot, if it's still over in that guy's yard/parking area. It would make a hell of a mess if oil really is backed up in there.. and if the flush didn't help, as you apparently suspect it wouldn't, the oil would still be in there. (plus the diesel, or whatever is used) I'd have to be REALLY careful if I did it.

Oh, one other thing that seemed to make a difference to at least one friend I talked to: The engine looks to be a bit over-full on oil. A significant amount past the max mark. Not sure that that will change your outlook on the situation, but felt I should throw that in there anyway if I hadn't already.

Re: Is this even close to right? ('88 5.0)

Reply #14 –
Well, towing it ourselves got eliminated. We're going to try and see if we can get AAA and/or Allstate Motor Club to assist on this, but some or all of the trip may be driven yet.

I was thinking of asking the seller if he could pull the PCV valve and try it again, just to see what happens.. but I don't know if he is knowledgable enough on the engine to find the PCV valve, even if I tell him where to look. (I haven't even seen it myself on that engine, although I know the diagram says it's in the back) Would running it with the oil filler cap off act similarly to uncorking the PCV?

Also, can I just take that tube off, (the one squirting oil into the TB) or ask him to try it without the tube, or should the throttle body end be blocked off? (or both, for that matter) I would think blocking it off is the way to go, but I just want to make sure.

Assuming he's still willing to try and get it towed to the halfway point, this will be good for me. Crossing Alligator Alley is the biggest concern with the car.. only 2 exits on a 90 mile stretch of road, not including rest areas. Once it's past that, it'll be at least close to civilization if something goes wrong.. if I have to drive it back.

Planning this has been a nightmare. I probably lost a good 2 hours' sleep last night just laying there dreading, err thinking about this.