I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Topic: I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway (Read 9001 times) previous topic - next topic

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #30 – June 17, 2009, 09:34:41 PM

Well I'm not arguing this anymore. I think this whole convo is a little biased. People who drive mustangs are obviously going to think they are better, regardless. And visa vera.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #31 – June 17, 2009, 09:49:10 PM

Quote from: jpc647;278369

Well I'm not arguing this anymore. I think this whole convo is a little biased. People who drive mustangs are obviously going to think they are better, regardless. And visa vera.

Well of course it's gonna be biased, it's a Ford/Mercury car based forum. People that are into Fords are generally not into GM cars. It's like an un-written law. I personally don't like any late(er) GM/Cheby just for the fact that I haven't had good luck with the few that I've owned. I'm not gonna lie and say I hate every single car or truck they have ever produced, but their newer shiznit just sucks. And as far as the new Camaro, it's all personal preferance.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #32 – June 17, 2009, 10:21:13 PM

Funny, I posted this because the car caught my eye - I was surprised it looked as good as it did. I would never actually consider buying a GM car either, though this is the first car that's actually looked even remotely interesting other than the WS6/Firehawks. A guy on my daughters basketball team actually had a 2010 Camaro on order, so I will get to check it out this summer as he told me to stop by and check it out when he found out I was into performance cars.

I think it's cool that the big 3 all now have retro "robo-cars" - a little competition never hurt anybody. Better than looking at generic corporate girly-looking cars all day!

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #33 – June 17, 2009, 10:35:23 PM

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Well I'm not arguing this anymore. I think this whole convo is a little biased. People who drive mustangs are obviously going to think they are better, regardless. And visa vera.

Hey, I never said the mustang was better, heck i can't honestly say MY mustang is better but i'd rather own my stang' than one of those new SS cars because I LIKE it better.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #34 – June 18, 2009, 12:04:45 AM

Quote from: jpc647;278369

Well I'm not arguing this anymore

Actually, I didn't think you were arguing at all. My reply wasn't meant to be taken as such either(although someone else couldn't grasp that -- not the first time -- eh no biggie).

Those are your observations/opinions and you outlined them well. Nothing wrong with that. I was merely trying to point out that the Mustang had a few uncontested years where they were the only game in town and one could say that is in part to getting the formula right. The same could be said if it were the Camaro that had the uninterrupted run instead of the Mustang.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #35 – June 18, 2009, 12:04:29 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;278315

*sigh*

He factored price into it as well. And I was responding to this:

It sounds as if he's referring to the total package concept; as in performance for value; not just one facet. THe years where the Camaro weren't even available is a direct disagreement as to how I interpreted his statement. Can you understand that now!?

I didn't read it like that at all. It sounded, to me, like he was talking about performance in that statement. I see your point now, but reading that reply before sounded like you were answering something he didn't ask.

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Considering it was 3 years late I AM surprised it even showed up to the party.

If you mean late to the retro-pony car party, yes. But the retro Mustang came out in '05. If you're talking about how long it took to get the Camaro on the streets, three years isn't a long time to go from concept to production. They just overhyped it by making a press release about every nut and bolt on the car. If we didn't hear anything about the development of this car, it would still be very fresh. That's something GM can't wrap their heads around, but I know why they were doing it lately. It's been a matter of keeping investors interested, and giving buyers a sense of hope that the company isn't just rolling over and dying... like Chrysler spent the last two years doing. It's good and bad. We all know that GM is putting a lot of effort into improving their product, but those products are old news when they do end up in showrooms.

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Nobody's arguing anything. It's pretty much well known that the Coyote is coming, and that -- if they are able -- GM will counter with something else and vice versa. That's what I was getting at. Did you read the entire statement or just the parts that got under your Go-Go GM skin?

I should add to that and say they've been trying to one-up each other on all fronts -- healthy capitalistic competition -- at least until we see what the U.S government has to say about it anyhow....

No doubt, argue isn't the right word. I typically say that when people take opposite positions on a subject, beyond discussion. I actually see the Coyote as Ford's counter to the LS3, since it has quite an advantage over the N/A 4.6L.

I do come off as a Go-Go GM guy lately, I know. I've been in their corner since they started their drain spiral. But I'm a Go-Go Good Car guy. I get just as excited about the new Scirocco (that we can't buy) as I do about the new Camaro. I think I actually post just as much Ford support on this board as I do GM, but as someone said, it's a Ford/Mercury board. Singing the praises of a Ford doesn't stand out here at all, where doing the same for a GM makes that comment stick out like a sore thumb. It's a casualty of being on an Enthusiast board for a specific car and liking something from everyone.

I do prefer the Camaro, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't jump at the chance to try any of the three out. If someone handed me the keys to a 2010 Mustang, I'd be at a full run for the driver's side before they finished asking.

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You'll like this:

I'll believe it when I see it. THAT one is a way off IMHO...

Sonofa!

Point taken. The article was simply about patents, which doesn't mean production at all. The way I see this, they're looking into the Ethanol Injection more than anything else. But talking about that one-upmanship between the two, that whole package looks like Ford's answer to the LS9. Hey, stranger things have happened (Ford GT).

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(although someone else couldn't grasp that -- not the first time -- eh no biggie)

I know I can be a bit of a punk sometimes. Being cooped up in a house with the kids all day and only getting past my driveway about once a week is definitely something I will never get used to. I needed to get out of here yesterday, which was a particularly frustrating one. Sorry about bringing it over here.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #36 – June 18, 2009, 08:24:19 PM

I rather like the looks of the challenger. My freinds family are all GM guys, and he bought a 03 ford f-250 6.0. They all talked shiznit on it, and every single one of them said, "Wow they even circled the problem" when they looked at the grill. Yet every single one of them wanted to ride around in it and watch him beat on it. Its just healthy competition, and exactally how I feel about all new cars. They have civic's with more power out of an inline 4 then our v-8s have. Well some of our v-8s anyways.

We have alot of super duty's and a couple of chevy equivilents at work. Everyone under 6 feet tall likes the chevy's better. I hate them because they are all coloum shift and every time I hit a bump on the road my knee hits it from OD into N. I think most chevy's cost more overall then a similarly equipped and targeted ford. I drive these cars because there cheap. If I could find a bunch of old camaro's for the same price, I might end up with one of those down the road.

As far as the whole retro look goes, I really feel that most, if not all of them, were made specifically for the 40+ groups who used to drive the cars around. I think its more of a way to try to make money then make a good performance car.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #37 – June 19, 2009, 09:07:31 AM

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If you mean late to the retro-pony car party, yes. But the retro Mustang came out in '05. If you're talking about how long it took to get the Camaro on the streets, three years isn't a long time to go from concept to production. They just overhyped it by making a press release about every nut and bolt on the car. If we didn't hear anything about the development of this car, it would still be very fresh. That's something GM can't wrap their heads around, but I know why they were doing it lately. It's been a matter of keeping investors interested, and giving buyers a sense of hope that the company isn't just rolling over and dying... like Chrysler spent the last two years doing. It's good and bad.

In today's car industry; that's an eternity. Especially considering the fact that GM said it was going to happen in each of those years and then retracted that and said "next year."

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I really feel that most, if not all of them, were made specifically for the 40+ groups who used to drive the cars around. I think its more of a way to try to make money then make a good performance car.

It seems NONE of the domestic manufacturers has gotten a strong foothold in the subcompact market. Dodge came close with the Neon SRT-4, but the fact they are no longer making it points to the fact that they were close, but missed the mark.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #38 – June 19, 2009, 10:36:14 AM

V8Demon,
Your right. Arguing is not the right word, I just was afraid it would turn into one. I've seen it happen a few times and just didn't want to cause problems. Just a little cautious. :)

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #39 – June 19, 2009, 11:39:42 AM

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It seems NONE of the domestic manufacturers has gotten a strong foothold in the subcompact market. Dodge came close with the Neon SRT-4, but the fact they are no longer making it points to the fact that they were close, but missed the mark.

Until they can make them more affordable its going to be tough for them to take off. The younger crowd doesn't have the 30+ thousand some of those cars cost.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #40 – June 19, 2009, 01:13:01 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;278649

It seems NONE of the domestic manufacturers has gotten a strong foothold in the subcompact market. Dodge came close with the Neon SRT-4, but the fact they are no longer making it points to the fact that they were close, but missed the mark.

The new SS Turbo Cobalt turned out to be quite the giant killer, and the LNF is one of the most stout little motors GM has built in... maybe ever. I'm glad they're not selling all of Opel, just a majority stake. They're getting a lot out of that Brand for other world markets.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #41 – June 19, 2009, 01:22:22 PM

Quote from: shame302;278679

Until they can make them more affordable its going to be tough for them to take off. The younger crowd doesn't have the 30+ thousand some of those cars cost.

That's part of it. The other part of it is that gas is too cheap for small cars to catch on. Europeans get on just fine with "premium" small cars, but in America people only buy small cars because they can only afford to fuel small cars. Americans also have collective ADHD when it comes to fuel prices. Last year everyone was snapping up fuel efficient cars, even paying full retail for used hybrids, but then fuel got cheap and everybody forgot about the crisis and resumed their wasteful ways. Now fuel is climbing again and everyone's whining again. Maybe after a decade or so of this bullshiznit people will finally accept that cheap fuel is not their God-given right.

The Mini, though, is proof that Americans WILL pay a premium for a small car if it's a good car. Small cars that look cheap and feel cheap are going to have to be cheap. Small cars that look and feel like quality can and will command higher prices. That's the problem GM had with the Saturn Astra. In Europe it was and is selling well because Europeans will pay for content in a small car. GM was convinced Americans would not do likewise, so they de-contented the car to the point nobody would pay that much when they can get a better equipped Civic.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #42 – June 19, 2009, 01:27:45 PM

...and it's not that Americans never got a foothold in the compact market. You can't cross the street without being run over by a Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalt, Saturn, Focus or Neon. They sold millions of the things.

The problem is that they haven't figured out how to make money selling small cars. Selling millions doesn't help the bottom line if you can't make money on each one. For the Big 3, small cars used to be a loss leader: First time customer buys Focus, then moves up into Fusion, then Taurus, then gets buried in a Lincoln. This went horribly wrong when the first time customer bought his Focus (or other entry level shiznitbox) and hated it so much that they vowed never to buy from than manufacturer again.

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #43 – June 19, 2009, 01:34:41 PM

Problem with the Cobalt is......well; it's still a Cobalt which is essentially an evolution of the Cavalier. As capable as it is there is still a bit of a stigma attached to it (the SRT-4 had it too) that isn't attached to the EVO or WRX...

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The other part of it is that gas is too cheap for small cars to catch on.

What's interesting is how much a gallon of gas has increased in the US in the past 6 months while the price of a barrel of oil hasn't gone up in a manner commiserate with the gas price. Oil's gone up, but not nearly as much. The profit margin has grown considerably.

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The Mini, though, is proof that Americans WILL pay a premium for a small car if it's a good car. Small cars that look cheap and feel cheap are going to have to be cheap. Small cars that look and feel like quality can and will command higher prices. That's the problem GM had with the Saturn Astra. In Europe it was and is selling well because Europeans will pay for content in a small car. GM was convinced Americans would not do likewise, so they de-contented the car to the point nobody would pay that much when they can get a better equipped Civic.

A never-ending trend by the US domestic manufacturers to "dumb down" a smart, sensible, and athletic vehicle to slash prices and then wonder why it won't sell in the US because it's now essentially a shiznitbox compared to the version the rest of the world gets.

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...and it's not that Americans never got a foothold in the compact market. You can't cross the street without being run over by a Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalt, Saturn, Focus or Neon. They sold millions of the things.

They sold millions of the FWD Impalas too. Doesn't mean there isn't a better alternative or room for improvement. I for one wouldn't touch the US spec version of any of those cars...

I saw a 2010 Camaro drive by me on the highway

Reply #44 – June 22, 2009, 12:23:32 PM

Quote from: V8Demon;278697

Problem with the Cobalt is......well; it's still a Cobalt which is essentially an evolution of the Cavalier. As capable as it is there is still a bit of a stigma attached to it (the SRT-4 had it too) that isn't attached to the EVO or WRX...

No doubt, but they do still sell a lot of them. I see more corollas on the streets than my eyes can bare, but for every one of those there are two Cobalts, or Focus's, or Neon/SX2.0's (they stopped calling them Neons up here when they did the last redesign, before the giant flop of a Calibre came along).

And to Carmen, it's not just the Domestics who have a hard time selling compacts in North America for a profit. Even Toyota and Honda see very little in the way of profit from their Yaris's or Fits. That's why they have vehicles like the Ridgeline, Tundra, Highlander, Pilot (bigger than a Grand Cherokee), etc., all over the continent, and filling up their ad budgets. They wanted, and needed, to sell us trucks and big SUV's just as much as any home grown manufacturer did come the middle of the Ot's.

It's too bad that people only notice how py the base models of the Domestic compacts are. When I rented a base Focus and a base Lancer back to back a few years ago (home getting married) the Mitsu felt like the floppiest, cheapest piece I'd ever driven new. I even enjoyed the few days in a Sebring a bit better. It was floppier, but at least it had some level of comfort and power there to excuse the limp noodle feel to the car. The Lancer was just cheap in every sense of the word. None of them could touch the VW Beetle I'd rented a year earlier. But then, the VW costs a bit more, doesn't it? They seem to have sold very well too, considering how little they've changed. It started the retro movement, and it's still surviving on that original sketch, which was shown to us in 1998! I'd put that up there with the Mini, or even above, in the point TC was making about premium compacts.