Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I swapped in a T5 for my old AOD and while everything shifted great while the T5 was in the Turbo Coupe before I removed it to put in my Sport Coupe, I now have a terrible time trying to shift into reverse and sometimes in first.  I have an adjustable cable clutch and tightened as much as I could and then bought a spacer and tightened it up some more.  After installing the spacer, it was too tight and the clutch would not disengage.  I loosened it up a bit and now it does shift (engage/disengage) a bit sooner on the pedal travel but I still have a hard time shifting in reverse and sometimes in first.  If it helps at all, I noticed it shifts cleanest when it's cold and rougher after I've driven it a little.  Also, if it matters, I do have an aluminum flywheel.  Does anybody have any advice?  Thanks in advance.

Still seems to be adjustment, I know mine is real finicky about it. I have to adjust mine with no free play. It does seem like you tried everything.

I've had some of these issues before.  Sounds nothing out of the norm. It is best to get things inside the tranny lined up before you try to put it into reverse or into 1st at times. So before you go to put it into reverse or even 1st work it though the other gears 2nd-4th this will get all the gears lined up. I know it sounds weird but in many T-5 cars and such this has always done it for me.

hope this helps
Stuckman

P.S. also I remember that they made a upgraded shift fork/throw out bearing plate as some people that slam on the clutch would bend them. Then casuing the clutch not to fully disengauge so they could shift properly. Just another thought to throw in the idea pile.

Something is definately out of adjustment or bent, etc.  I guess you could always trash it in favor of a 6 speed!!

The only piece of equipment I have that was used is the bellhousing -- new throwout bearing arm & gear, cable clutch, flywheel, pressure plate........  It sounds like I might have to tighten up the clutch a bit more then.  Does this make sense with my observation that it shifts great when I first back the car out of the garage and then after going through the gears begins to shift harder -- that while the clutch may not be fully disengaging it isn't an issue at first because the car was sitting idle and therefore I don't have to wait for the gears in my transmission to stop spinning before trying to get it in reverse.  Would this also make sense that first and reverse would be my most challenging gears to get into.  On a scale of one to ten (ten being the hardest and one being the easiest I'd have to say reverse is an 8 and first is a 3 after I've driven it a bit.)

OK sounds like you are not disengaging properly. Did you adjust the clutch pedal throw . What pedals are you using??? Basically you are not releasing enough. Check the release distance with a ruler. I think you need a min of 2 inches or better. This is from memory. Either way the clutch needs more fork travel if the instillation was dun correctly. Also the fork should be over center to the front of the car. IS IT?? Good luck

Note the 87 88 TC has a hydraulic clutch setup. So you must have used a cable setup. But which cable setup are you using??? Photos would help a lot. Thanks!!

Mine had this problem after the swap and it turned out to be a worn ball stud (the pivot for the fork). I replaced the ball stud and everything was spiffy...

I'm sorry I don't have any pictures right now.  I'll see what I can do though.  The ball stud is new and it came with the bell housing I ordered from a popular Mustang vendor but I can't remember the exact name right now.  The clutch pedal is from a fox body Mustang GT ('87 I believe) -- I ordered that through E-Bay.  The cable is new and came with an aluminum quadrant and firewall adjuster.  It is for a fox body Mustang so I didn't think there would be any difference between that and the T-Bird.

OK did you adjust the stud correctly??? The fork actually needs to be over center to the front of the engine by app 7-10*

I've had this problem in all of my t-5 cars, what I do is place it in 5th then straight to reverse. Works every time. No adjustment with hydraulic clutch.

I bet that even if you find a problem with the release, you'll still have trouble with reverse.  The reason is that reverse is not only non-synchronized, but it's a spur gear.  So the reason it's hard to put in gear is because it's made that way, which incidentally is the same reason it makes a funny grinding noise when you back up (spur gears are noisy).  If you've got any real problem, it's a worn blocking ring in the first gear synchro. It's not worth the trouble to change it for the problem you're having. Live with it.

Reverse grinding is easily eliminated by first selecting another gear to stop the spinning disc  then shift in to reverse.

Exactly, let one of the gears that IS synchronized slow the main shaft down for you.  This is what 88Turbo is doing when he hits 5th before dropping into reverse (as he mentioned in reply #10 on the previous page). The 5th gear blocking ring doesn't take much abuse either, so it will pretty much always be there for you.

I thought 5th gear was synchronized in the world class T-5's?

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/HanlonTIC.html

Darren

In a T-5 EVERYTHING is synchro except reverse. A blocking ring is part of the synchronizer assembly, its made of brass.  Its job is essentially to act as a mini-clutch between the synchro and the  gear.  It helps to match the speed of the desired gear to the speed of the mainshaft during the shift until the whole assembly locks together at the end of it's travel.  That way, you don't get gear clash when shifting.  Forgive me for being redundant if you already know this, but I don't like to make assumptions about what people know.

Every manual transmission built after app1960 has a synchro assembly for every forward gear as i can remember. Other than some GRANNY first gears in some trucks with a new process tranny ETC!!! Now a days even reverse is synchronized. All my 6 SPEEDER cars have every gear synchronized even reverse!!!

NOTE Gears in modern transmissions are constantly engaged. Years ago non synchrowed gears were selected by moving gears in and out of each other. Today gear changes are accomplished by energizer teeth on gears tgat are always engaged. Hence they are synchronized!!

Here is an example of a gear that is a NON SYNCHRO UNIT AND A SLIDER. They grind.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/tfalconier/8ca49247.jpg)

Here is a MD from a MUNCIE M20 that is SHOT!!! You can see the energizing teeth are gone and chipped off. This tranny  had many missed shifts. This MD is shot and will be replaced along with all the other forward gears. . First gear is normally not messed up in a manual tranny. Reason being normally no one power shifts in to first gear???  I am converting this tranny to a wide ratio M22 for a customer. So all the gears will be replaced. Along with the synchro assemblies dogs and cluster gear and cluster main shaft. Thanks

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/tfalconier/cdb186a3.jpg)

Good article on how to rebuild one:

http://www.pomofookieracing.com/tech/T5Rebuild2002.pdf

I know Chris and he is the T-5 guru here in Houston.

Darren

Blocker Rings
While the original blocker rings (synchro rings) were made of brass, the World Class units received steel rings that were lined for gears 1-4.  The blocker rings for gears 1 and 2 became 3-piece sets with an inner and outer cone made of steel. These linings have been called "composite", "paper", and even "fabric."  For simplicity I will use the term "composite."  The blocker ring for fifth gear has remained with the original brass design throughout.  The UP dated world class had many differences but to my knowledge no T5 had a non synchronized FIFTH GEAR. That makes no sense to me. You can see in the photo the energizing teeth and the blocking ring in the early verses late unit. Clearly shows a synchronized gear setup on both. 

I am not that friendly with the T5 units as they are way to weak for my applications. At 305 FT LBS of torque the T5 is not suited for anything we build. They are to weak. Just saying!!!

Aerocoupe, I think you're missing the point.  The point is that reverse is a non-synchronized spur gear, which is why it can be hard to engage and then noisy when you're backing up.

Yeah, actually you are 100% correct.  I was pleading my case that 5th was synchronized and the discussion was if reverse was or not.  I gotta pay more attention...

Anyhow, I called Hanlon Motorsports and in mid-92 they made a "half ass" attempt at making reverse synchronized by adding and extra blocker and cone ring which will stop the cluster in an effort to stop the noise you hear when shifting into reverse.  All it did was remove the noise when going into reverse and it is still not synchronized.  The guy said that you can easily tell if the T-5 has this option by looking at the reverse light switch on the driver side of the transmission.  If it has a bolt or pin at the 5 o'clock position from the reverse light switch then it has this modification.  The T-5 I have has this option which is why I was on my soap box.  I do apologize for my confusion.

Darren

Anyone that grinds REVERSE in any non synched transmission clearly should be driving an AUTOMATIC CAR!!! Their is no reason to grind a non synchronized reverse gear or for that matter any transmission that is not fully synchronized. What would you guys have dun in the OLD DAYS ON NON SYNCHRONIZED FIRST GEARS
.

We would have been double-clutching.

NO NO NO you use another gear that is synchronized before selecting FIRST GEAR. HOW CAN YOU DOUBLE CLUTCH IN TO FIRST GEAR FROM A STOP ????????????? WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just push the pedal in twice.lol Or install a clutch brake, I know they don't make them for cars. I think.

Those clutch brakes are NUTS. My heavy duty guys use them in like the MACKS. Most often they only use the clutch for first. Then no clutch after that.

Well, I didn't do anything new from last time I drove my car but this past week I had to get my T-Bird out of the garage because my daily needed a new radiator hose and much to my surprise the Bird shifted like champ.  After driving for about a half hour on four different occasions and then having to back up to pull my car in the garage, it shifted in reverse just as smoothly as any other gear.  I appreciate all of your feedback and am very relieved I don't have to worry about shifting into 5th before reverse.  It is so much fun driving.