hello everyone!
During a series of horse trades, I ended up trading off a spare 351W that i had sitting around (basically a core, it ran when pulled, and sat in the corner for close ot a decade) for two T5 transmissions.
the first one is out of a 1989 ford Mustang GT, 5.0 car, and i was told, the 2nd gear syncro is a bit finicky.
the 2nd one is out of a Merucry Mekur, that had a non turbo 4 cylinder.
I'm looking to eventually put one of these into my 87 Tbird, my question is, whats the difference between the two transmissions?
Input shaft different size and gearing. The 4cyl will have the smaller input shaft.
John
The XR4Ti's never came with a T5. They also never had a non-turbo 2.3 in them.
Check the ID tags on the transmissions.
The '89 Mustang unit will be not have the improved gear set so the torque rating on that unit will be 265 ft/lbs. The change was in '90.
As Chuck stated, no such thing as a XR4Ti without turbo or with T-5.. Possibly someone had swapped a Stang NA 2.3 & T-5 into one?? Or someone was lying or had no idea what they were talking about...
Anyway if it's a half motor trans, the pilot bearing nose will be slightly shorter and smaller diameter... With i believe Ranger pilot bearing they fit behind a 5.0... Biggest issue is are weak(rated around 240Ft lb) and have a stump pulling 3.97 1st gear... O/D is only 20% vs approx 33% on V8 versions... Few parts are interchangeable between the two transmissions...
It's common for the 1st/2nd gear synchro to be bad, especially if someone used 90W gear lube vs automatic xmission fluid... Usually requires at least synchro & 2nd gear replacement... The newer V8 trans was a little stronger than earlier models... Was possible to shuck the 3rd gear teeth from cluster on a power shift in the earlier trans... Somewhere around here I have a T-Shirt for that one...
where are the tags located, and what should i look for? the guy is coming up tomorrow afternoon for the trade.
The tag would be under one of the bolts that holds the tailshaft housing to the main case. That tag will also tell you the gear ratios for each gear...assuming no one has fiddled with anything inside.
regardless, the Gt mustang T5, while not the "perfect" candidate, can be rebuilt and used in my 302 powered 87 T, correct?
Externally all Ford T-5 are identical(at least close enough not to make a difference)... GM transmissions had different input shaft, bolt pattern and location(s) of shifter...
I bought the later gearset after I blew the one up in my '86 Stang... They must be better cause that one never broke... Gearset and rebuild kit will give you most everything you'd need...
There are charts on net that ID trans with source, gear ratio, torque etc...
Well, thats the one i was after, really. like i said, the engine was a spare core ive had in the corner for like 7 years, so it's not hurting me one bit to unload it for parts i can actually use.
heres the goods...
the v8 one... note that i need a bellhousing... anyone hook me up?
(https://i.imgur.com/V1WEJjBl.jpg)
and the tag
(https://i.imgur.com/2XiRR1Sl.jpg)
the 4 cyl one
(https://i.imgur.com/Qg4XTBgl.jpg)
guy was super nice, he even had a spare set of tall fabricated aluminum SBF valve covers he tossed in on the deal for me.
Type out the tag, or look it up. Its not hard to figure out. I cant really make it out. The tag will tell ya what it goes too.
the blue one doesnt have a tag, and thats the one of unkown status.
Put it in 1st & count turns of input shaft to give one turn of output... If it requires approx 4 turns, that's said 4cyl trans with 3.97 1st gear... No need to proceed farther... I believe there were lesser ratio 4cyl trans in early TC & SVO but none less than around 3.5... The production HO 5.0 World Class trans all have 3.35 1st gears(note I said HO)... The '83 & '84 non-WC have a 2.95 1st...
Here's a list of just the Ford transmissions...
http://chris66dad.tripod.com/id38.html
AND I don't mean to ruin your day -- BUT but if tag on the black transmission is E7SR-7003-AA and 1352-155, that's a 4cy trans as well... Turbo Coupe trans...
On this list at bottom of first page...
http://www.autogear.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/T5wc_Mustang_21.pdf
I'll check em both out when i head to the shop this afternoon. i'll get the tag numbers, and give em both the spin test.
Sure enough, both had a close to 4:1 first gear ratio, and sure enough, the ID tag you listed matches the ID you just said.
.
If you stick with a 2.79 rear end, the 3.97 1st gear trans gives a similar overall ratio to 3.35 trans & 3.55 rear... Actually the 3.35 & 3.55 are slightly deeper(11.89) than with the stock gear & 4cyl trans(11.07)...
Since you have two install one and just remember 2nd, 3rd & 5th won't take a lot of punishment...
There are worse things you could have ended up with. There is a deisel ranger pilot bearing that will fit the shaft.
I went with a sn-95 v-6 trans. I bought it off Craigslist for $125 and spent a bit over $400 total on my swap. I ran it for about 80k miles. Kept blowing motor mounts. I ended up pulling the trans and junking the car.
I say throw it in since you have it, then if you blow them both up, try one of the many cheap and available v-6 transmissions.
Put them up for sale on NATO (http://www.turbotbird.com/) or Four Eyed Pride (http://www.foureyedpride.com/) or here and take that $$ and buy a 90-93 Mustang 5.0 T-5. By the time you put one of the ones you got in the car and rig it to work with a V8 motor and then blow it up and pull it back out, stick the other one in, blow it up...you are gonna slap your forehead and say "I could have had a V8".
Yes, get the V8 one, the 4 banger granny gear straight blows. Especially with any kind of deeper than stock rear gear. My Mustang has a 3.55. When I first put the rear in, the car was still 2.3, first gear was useless as tastebuds on an asshole.
I mean, if it had a front axle it would be a useful substitute for a lowrange, but.....
I've got a mystery T5 here as well. All I know is it sorely needs rebuilt, as does my own V8 T5. The SN95 T5 have a longer input shaft....haystack likes to talk about them and how tough they are but if they won't work with a V8 they're not worth shaging with. And I don't know, myself if they will mock up or not. I suppose if you found one still in a '94-5 Mustang and grabbed the trans AND bellhousing you'd be ok. Can't use a fox bell and an SN95 T5 together though.
Maybe there's a reason haystack kept "blowing" mounts.....(or else he can't drive stick LOL)
They bolt right in, that was behind my 87 302 bird. Gear ratios are identicle to the 302 gear boxes depending on the year.
I drove the car like I stole it, spinning 1st and banging 2nd every time I drove it.
I have a hard time keeping motor mounts together with the auto setup also, I think I replaced 3 sets on my last 86. Several of them cracked the mounts. If I blipped the throttle from a stop, it could bind the column shifter into 1st gear without touching it also.
My thunder cat, I could pop the hood by revving the motor at idle.
Thats kind of my thought as well. I want to get a trans, have it rebuilt before i even put it in, and then it's good to go for many years to come. I dont want to fiddle with making this one work, and then finding another one later, and swapping pilot bearings ina and out, etc etc. i'm not building some 600hp thumper, im looking at the 300ish hp range, i want a set it and forget it type of deal.
The axle I have is a 3.55 8.8, so everyone is right, the first gear is gonna blow.
So, two questions for you all.
first off, whats a fair price to ask for these two trannys? I dont need top dollar, i just would like funds to go towards the v8 trans.
Secondly, I'm in Iowa, Northeast Iowa, to be exact. Anyone on here within a day's drive that has a V8 T5 for sale??
I read through your whole build thread. I considered it. But i havent been able to locate a trans for under $500 around these parts, and at that point, i'm gonna get the fox T5.
https://lacrosse.craigslist.org/pts/d/ford-fox-body-mustang-parts/6508378672.html
Pretty good deal for what all he has. I would want to see the details on the rebuild and open up the inspection cover to look at the shifter forks.
I found a guy on the local mustang page, who has a T5, with rebuild recipts, for $500, comes with a brand new, never installed clutch, bellhousing, etc. I think I'm gonna go see what he has.
Enter T5 #3.
(https://i.imgur.com/OlM88aKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tBOVsfMl.jpg)
From what I'm told, its a world class T5 out of an 89, but has the imput shaft from a 94 mustang swapped into it. Which, from what i also understand, is not gonna work for me.
Am i reading this all right? I'll have the tag decoded in a few...
Edit: Tag number is 13-52-169 that puts it at a V8 t5, and it does in fact have the Timkin markings on the front of the case below the input shaft, so that does indicate it is a WC. Still not the "upgraded" gearset tho.
So, can this trans be rebuilt? if so, can i also get a "FOX" input shaft, so i can go back to running a fox body bellhousing, thus making my life simpler? Also, if im rebuilding, is there ways to somewhat easily beef this trans up, to make it a bit stronger? I see that a lot of people swap the collar around the input shaft from an aluminum to a steel one.
or is this one destined to go to the stack with my other 4 cyl T5's?
So you can beef it up but the biggest improvement will be a positive stop shifter. I have had several on T5’s over the years and would recommend that if you do it get a good one. I currently have a Pro 5.0 with the stock shifter handle in my Coupe and it works really well. I also up graded the cluster support plate when I had mine gone through years ago.
https://astroperformance.com/product/cluster-support-plate/
The biggest killer of T-5’s is speed shifting so always use the clutch. Finding a Fox length input shaft shouldn’t be like looking a leprechaun but it may not be easy. Hit the Mustang forums and ask for pictures and specifically one with a part number as it should have a part number stamped on it. Remember that the shins in the input shaft bearing retainer are what set the preload so watch that when you change them out. Another tough part will be the bell housing but patience will net you one. Make sure you get the clutch fork pivot stud with the bell housing. The other item you will need is the plate between the flywheel and the block. You can buy them both new if you have to:
https://lmr.com/products/79-93-Mustang-Bell-Housing-And-Spacer-Plate
Well, i found out summit sells new input shafts of a fox length for about 50 bucks, so there's that. I think i'm just goingto have the whole trans gone through, just so i know it's fresh, and i will look into that cluster plate upgrade.
Another buddy ( a mustang der) has a Lakewood bellhousing with fork and everything that he's selling to me for peanuts, because he went the TKO route.
As far as clutching... you gotta clutch. anything less is uncivilized.
I'm definitely goingto be looking for an upgraded shifter. thats a must. after you row some old school Hursts on old tin, you understand exactly why they are worth the money
Lakewood bellhousing= pain in the ass. Had one and would walk everyday before I ever install another one. Worst engineered part when it comes to exhaust routing and starter service let alone the sheer weight. If you are not going to spin it over 7,000 rpm they are a waste of time. Just my opinion.
Noted. He also have two stock bellhousings, so i may just grab one of those.