HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Topic: HO conversion...huge endeavor for me? (Read 3064 times) previous topic - next topic

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

November 18, 2006, 08:09:32 PM

over the last few weeks ive started piecing together the parts. i have everything but the computer, injectors, and MAP sensor. but the computer is just not here yet. i won a DA1 manual trans stang comp on ebay yesterday, so thats covered.

the only automotive work ive done is getting the '38 buick (link in sig) running after 25 years of sitting (meaning sand the points down, tune the carburetor a little, replace cap, rotor, etc) removing and cleaning its rocker shaft, and replacing the entire brake system.

i know stuff like headgaskets cant be reused, but what about other ones like intake, exhaust, manifold, etc? what else should i know about head removal/replacement, cam removal/replacement? can i take the grille off and the cam will come out through that? or is it lower? take the bumper off? can i find the head bolt order and torque in my Hayne's manual? what should i know sensor/electronic wise? anything about the computer? just plug it in and go?

how about headers? i was gonna just do stock stang ones. i *may* do other mods in the future, i was thinking if i could eventually get up to 250hp or so with a hotter cam or something i might do that (maybe a couple of years down the road or something). on eric's site he says anything over 225 hp and you should have 1 5/8" headers. could i just do that now? am i likely to find any on ebay? would they cause clearance problems with the motor mounts/steering shaft/anything else? do some manufacturers' headers have problems and other dont due to the pipe routing or something?

on http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html it says a fox stang does 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. thats kinda my measuring stick. today i tested with the gtech pro that was also my dad's, the 0-60 of my car. 9.48 seconds. i was shocked. although not really. it feels like it just crawls between like 50 and 60 mph or so. i just thought i remembered him saying he got 8 and change when he first got the thing but it was like 11 years old who knows. (does that figure (9.48) sound about right anyway? just checking). suprisingly with some research it turns out that the stang is only 100 or so lbs lighter than my cat, at 3100-3200 lbs? (at least thats what i found on corall.net forums). so with the same power can i expect a similar time? i have a 2.73 rear :pbb: did the stangs have a 3.73 or 4.11 or something? that would certainly make a difference of like 3 or 4 tenths right? im thinking i might do 3.73s. is this a good idea? i know that engine rpms will increase vs. speed from the 2.73s but how much? i know that at 65 mph in OD now its 1600 rpm. would it be like 2000? even a little more would be fine with me, as long as that wont cause a lot of extra engine wear, like erasing 50k miles from its life or something. gas mileage is unimportant, i dont drive a whole lot in general, especially now that im in college, AND freshman year you cant have a car anyway! what other ratios are out there, should i go with something more like 3.4 or 3.5 ish? or might the HO alone be enough?

does anyone think i could do the rear end gear swap? how involved is that? i have no idea how the gears/diff are attached? does the entire axle housing have to come off the car?

who here has this setup, more importantly who does 0-60 in like 6 or 6.5 seconds. how does it feel? getting on the highway must be nothing at all. i mean my car does it good but you gotta practially floor it to get in quick into a 5 or so carlength gap. id also like to know that i can be about as fast as the 80s stangs and camaros, and solidly beat friends' more modern cars like late model civics and accords and stuff like that. i will NOT partake in any street racing, i think thats some stupid stuff, in fact i will continue to baby the hell out of the car on a day to day basis but i want the power to be there if i need/want/gotta brag about it. besides, this is something 30 years from now im gonna be bringing to the showfield in the historic preservation/unrestored class, so as cool as it would be, no Kenne Bell blowers or Trick Flow top end kit with that Trick Flow upper intake, and no cone filters, or things painted a different color than stock. someone here has a real clean bay with a baby blue upper intake and it looks sweet but it aint factory stock. thatd be points off in AACA judging! lol. i like the HO conversion because it will look stock. heh, actually the HO upper intake im getting is missing the plate on top, so ill use my one and itll truly look stock!

whew! wrists = tired and prolly ur eyes too!

just wanna be sure i got all the info i need, i cant believe im going to be tearing into something more complicated than the '38, that thing is like an old tractor or something. so simple and SO much space in the engine bay!

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #1 – November 19, 2006, 06:45:04 AM

Why not do it and see for yourself?

The H.O. conversion isn't that big a deal. If I wasent driving my car to and from work everyday, I would be swapping those heads in right now...

The biggest thing is going to be the cam, or the exhaust. Neither of those are really that big of a deal, just alot of wrestling.

As for the gears, physic wise, there is no way that one could make your car faster then the other, unless of course, you got lots of wheel hop or burned out with the other. Its mostly a seat of the pants feeling, and how quickly it seems to launch. A 2.73 with 225 hp will still feel like alot and act like alot more.

If you dont want to get into it too deep, then just do the upper intake and throttle body, and the exhaust. Then you won't care how much work the rest is.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #2 – November 19, 2006, 07:54:36 AM

Yes, gears can be a tricky and time-consuming project unless you're changing the whole rear axle, in which case it's pretty easy. And while they will improve acceleration somewhat, they really won't give you anymore power, just more oomph.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #3 – November 19, 2006, 09:03:05 AM

The time for the Stangs is for the 5 speed versions, 1st gear is a 3.35 ratio and rears were 2.73 or 3.08... A auto Stang with it's 2.40 1st and tight converter is a slug compared to the stick cars. A freind has a stock 5.0/AOD notchback and its a real wimp(but still would slaughter a stock Bird/Coug)... Plan on 3.73 or more rear and a 2400 stall converter if you want any real preformance....

Dunno what my 0-60 time is(guessing 5.5), but last night at the track my Bird went 82mph in 8.5 sec... Yea she's gettin a little tired, in her heyday she'd go 83mph in 8.4...

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #4 – November 19, 2006, 12:51:41 PM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;114444

Plan on 3.73 or more rear and a 2400 stall converter if you want any real preformance....

I agree! In fact I would suggest doing this mod first. It'll feel like you have 50 more horse power when you stab the gas.

Get it done at a shop tho, setup is tricky . I'd also suggest getting the Ford gears. They're more money but the cheaper ones tend to whine (I know...I'm cheap:disappoin )

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #5 – November 19, 2006, 12:53:39 PM

alright thanks for the confidence booster guys!

man i cant wait for my christmas break (5 weeks long)

that should be plenty of time to get this done.

no j/k im not that slow

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #6 – November 19, 2006, 01:20:24 PM

I'm doing this same thing right now. Not a lot to it.
You've got it easier than I did, I started with a V6 car, and had to track down everything, even an SO 5.0, but ebay is great, lot of good deals, I got an HO upper/lower with throttlebody, egr, and an IAC, plus injectors, and fuel rail for 81 bucks to my door...

Just ask questions here if ya run into any problems

Still needing a set of 19 pounder injectors?
Let me know if ya do, I've got a spare set, and I won't need an arm/leg for 'em.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #7 – November 20, 2006, 01:10:39 PM

Quote from: ZondaC12;114355

i know stuff like headgaskets cant be reused, but what about other ones like intake, exhaust, manifold, etc?

Only the gaskets between the upper and lower intake can be re-used. Get new gaskets for everything else. Also for re-assembly get yourself some long bolts and cut the heads off to make studs and use them for holding/ailigning your gaskets on the timing cover, water pump, valve covers and intake. the studs will hold the gasket in place and then you can just slide the part right on dowm the studs and everything will be perfectly aligned... which means no leaks. Then just start your bolts and remove the studs.

Quote from: ZondaC12;114355

can i take the grille off and the cam will come out through that? or is it lower? take the bumper off? can i find the head bolt order and torque in my Hayne's manual?

I only had to remove the header pbuttstuff and lights. You, can leave the bumber in palce. The haynes manual has the torque values at the begining of the section. It's got a picture of the torque pattern.

Quote from: ZondaC12;114355

what should i know sensor/electronic wise? anything about the computer? just plug it in and go?

Yep, it should all work... But, dont forget to use the HO firing order. DO NOT rewire your injector harness!

Quote from: ZondaC12;114355

how about headers? i was gonna just do stock stang ones.

Stock headers are fine to 300HP and they're much easier to install. Aftermarket headers wont be of any noticable benefit until you have good aluminum heads and a good intake. Super Ford mag did alot of dyno testing back in the day of various bolt on mods. It's pretty well dospoogeented.

Also I agree with all who've said you need a convertor and gears. Get gears first and then the convertor or do it at the same time. If you put a convertor in a car with stock gears and an aod you'll probably kill your transmission cruising on the freeway under the stall speed (I did). I'd get no less than 3:73 gears with a 2400 stall convertor if I could do it all over again.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #8 – November 20, 2006, 01:16:33 PM

Oh, and anyone who says a full HO conversion isn't a huge endeavor is probably paying someone else to do it. It is a big deal and you'll have your share of challenges and have to make a bazillion trips to the auto parts store for the little stuff (like busted vacuum tee's for example) but when its done it will be well worth the effort.

Just take your time and dont try and rush things.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #9 – November 20, 2006, 05:24:59 PM

thanks for the info dogcharmer!

that stud idea sounds great! the firing order i just change by changing the plu wires right? also, i just thought of this, on eric's site he mentions bumping up the timing a little. he mentions youll need like 93 octane gas. about how much power can be gained by doing that? i mean if its like 5 hp i dont think thats worth the extra gas $$

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #10 – November 20, 2006, 05:56:05 PM

Yep, just change the firing order with the plug wires. Every car is different as far as timing goes, and your optimal timing will change according to what gas you're running. I'd pick the gas I'm gonna use and start at 10 BTDC and move up in 2 degree increments. On my 86 I could only run 12 on 87 octane. Any more than that and I'd get that high RPM "rattle". You just have to experiment. Dont forget to pull the shorting plug when you set the timing.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #11 – November 20, 2006, 10:12:21 PM

Quote

someone here has a real clean bay with a baby blue upper intake and it looks sweet but it aint factory stock. thatd be points off in AACA judging! lol.

That would be me:grinno:

I'd say go for it. But in all honesty if you're worried about accuracy you shouldn't install the HO headers. That would be a big give away. I'm trying to keep my car stock looking everywhere, except for under the hood. I like the sleeper look, and after the HO conversion in the spring, I'll have some go to back up the show.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #12 – November 20, 2006, 11:07:01 PM

It's an easy job to do that is well worth it.The cam is the hardest part of the swap,and it's not that hard.I just swapped in the entire engine (H.O) into my current 'Bird,but in the project 'Bird,I'll just do the H.O. upgrade with the intake,cam,computer,exhaust,and heads,no big deal,and,I really do the work myself.If you have changed the cam before,the rest should be easy.The wiring harness stays the same,unless you go Mass Air (I kept mine Speed Density).I actually enjoy this kind of work.If I have to do it,it sucks,but upgrading for fun.....priceless.If I can help,let me know.Good luck with the work.

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #13 – November 20, 2006, 11:23:04 PM

cool.

as for the headers, NO WAY. gotta have those! for one thing i want the sound everyone tells me ill get if....only i had headers! i cant wait to hear it, i have no idea what the difference is, so that makes it even more exciting!

HO conversion...huge endeavor for me?

Reply #14 – November 20, 2006, 11:33:32 PM

Well...headers and the column shift linkage could be a problem...but the factory-style Mustang headers should be alright in that respect. That's one area where you will definitely have to figure it out when you get there. You've been warned.