Cam and firing order September 05, 2012, 01:43:45 PM What is the best, fastest and cheapest way to verify the firing order matching the cam in an explorer with the 5.0?My Dad had his 2000 Explorer engine replaced with a reman last year, but it has never run right and the mechanic has thrown up his hands and told my Dad, who is 71, that is as good as you're gonna get from me... nice guy eh? It seems like it is missing on at least 1 cylinder, has no power, etc. It occurred to me that there could be a cam/firing order mismatch since this was a reman engine and God only knows which cam is actually in the reman'd motor. I verified that the plugs are in the correct order, so short of a failed lifter, it seems like the cam could be most likely culprit. I want to get this fixed for him, as it drives like , gets horrible mileage, but looks almost showroom new. The old engine suffered an oiling failure between 7 & 8 and chewed up a couple of rod bearings. Dad being disabled wasn't able to do the necessary work himself, and was afraid to take the chance in rebuilding the engine with oil starved parts.Thanks in advance guys! Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #1 – September 05, 2012, 02:32:51 PM I'd think a OBD-II engine would be setting all sorts of codes if it were operating a SO firing order engine... Since you stated it seems to have a miss, I'd be checking to see if all the injectors were connected & in the proper order... Possibly are wrong type or one has a open coil... Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #2 – September 05, 2012, 02:42:41 PM Since it's OBD-II you should be able to get a bunch of codes from any Auto Zone. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #3 – September 05, 2012, 02:45:54 PM Yeah Tom, the check engine light is on, but I don't have my reader with me. The Explorer engine, according to what I have read, uses the HO firing order, so anything else is gonna cause some problems. I have checked the injectors and the all seem to be in working order. I checked the harness and all injectors have a good signal at the connector and good grounds.Does anyone know what codes might get thrown if the cam is anything other than the correct one? If I have an idea, I might be able to take her down to Autozone or Advance and have them use their scan tool. I might go ahead and do that anyway and report back what codes are being or have been set. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #4 – September 05, 2012, 03:30:23 PM Quote from: Crazy88;397471 I might go ahead and do that anyway and report back what codes are being or have been set. This.Might be a simple fix, might not be. The codes will eliminate the guessing. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #5 – September 05, 2012, 07:50:06 PM OK first off the vehicle is equipped with a waste spark system if i am correct on this and i think i am. So the plugs would be grouped as follows. 1-6 3-5 4-7 2-8 so that most likely cant be change to my thinking!!! Now the easiest way to check the engine for timing parameter to find out it's firing order is to check the compression parameters on each cylinder and plot it's firing order. This can be best dun by removing the valve cover and watching the cam events!! This way you can check the firing order against the cam timing. This is basically all you can do as i see it. I will have to sit down and figure the both timing events on paper to determine if in fact you have the correct firing order against cam timing. A quick answer would be you most likely have the correct engine??? Who ordered it??? I would think it was ordered by application. Another trick you cab do is lick your finger and touch each exhaust port while the engine is running. Or use an inferred temp gun. A cold exhaust temp will tell you exactly which cylinder is in distress. I do this all the time on diesels and gas engines. Remember i am an old timer with these little tricks. Or just scan it and that will tell you instantly with an OBD 2 System which cylinder is in distress. If you only have one cylinder down then i am going to assume the cam is correct for the ECM firing order or waste spark events. Good luck TomNote if the cam is incorrect you will get a PO 301-308 i would think. Or a combination of the distressed cylinders. If you have 2 POcodes indicating a miss fire i would think the cam is incorrect. But easily fixed!!!Also you can pull the plugs and use a whistle to plot the firing order. Your choice and decision as to what method to use!!! Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #6 – September 05, 2012, 08:40:13 PM Quote from: TOM Renzo;397485OK first off the vehicle is equipped with a waste spark system if i am correct on this and i think i am. What do you mean by a waste spark system? It is equipped with ESDI and the plug wires are plugged into the correct ports and plugs. I verified this myself this morning.Quote from: TOM Renzo;397485A quick answer would be you most likely have the correct engine??? Who ordered it??? I would think it was ordered by application.Advance ordered it from some outfit called Spartan. They supposedly ordered it by specifying that it was for a 2000 Ford Exploder XLT. Of course even if it was ordered correctly, there is no way to know with any certainty(short of taking the cam out and actually looking for a ford part number) if the engine received is exactly what was ordered... or just good enough. Quote from: TOM Renzo;397485Note if the cam is incorrect you will get a PO 301-308 i would think. Or a combination of the distressed cylinders. If you have 2 POcodes indicating a miss fire i would think the cam is incorrect.PO? Is PO=Power On?Quote from: TOM Renzo;397485 But easily fixed!!!I thought about re-pinning the computer if necessary, but was directed to this article, which explains why this is a pretty bad idea. We are going to take it to Advance tomorrow and get the codes pulled. What I had though about doing, which is a variation on what Tom suggested, is pull the lower intake(the upper must be pulled to take of the valve covers anyway) and determine cam firing order by watching the cam and taking note in which order the intake valves are opened. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #7 – September 05, 2012, 08:48:46 PM It's not out of the question that the cam is wrong, but it seems like a long shot. If it's a reman, it should have gone through checks during it's teardown to verify proper heads and cam. Nothings impossible. Is the cel flashing at any point? If it is, that's a dead give away that you're tripping the misfire monitor. If not, you may have a code for a shorted coil, or a MAF out of range(as a simple test, disconnect the MAF with the key off, then restart and recheck), or any number of things. If you've got a timing light handy, you can clip it on the wires one at a time to see who isn't lighting up properly, that would let you know if a single or pair of cylinders weren't firing. Honestly, as someone with access to an IDS, I'd hook up and pull codes, read PIds, then do a power balance test, and maybe relative compression. Power balance will tell you who isn't pulling his weight, and relative compression will help you find things like a valve open when it shouldn't be, or maybe just a hole that's dead. If you don't have access to a Ford scanner, ignore the last half of what I said.Tom means P 0301-P 0308. P for powertrain, 0301 as in 03 (misfire) 01 (as in cylinder 01)Waste spark means that you have 2 coil packs of 2 coils each. Each of which hits 2 cylinders every time it fires. 1 spark goes to the firing cylinder, the other (waste spark) fires to it's companion cylinder who is on its exhaust stroke. When it's the companion's turn the coil is fired again and the same thing happens, but the first cylinder getshiznit on it's exhaust stroke instead of TDC compression (or thereabouts). This way we can run a 8 cylinder engine with only 4 coils. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #8 – September 05, 2012, 10:52:25 PM Gotcha. Thank you. The CEL is not flashing at all, but on and steady. I took your advice and used my timing light to check spark on all 8 lines. They all put out something, but I did notice some odd behavior though, with regard to RPM(indicated by the fancy timing light). For example, on #1 RPM indicated 730 RPM at idle, but #5 its companion indicated 1460 RPM at idle. With the knowledge of what waste spark is and how it fires its companion cylinder on the exhaust stroke, the RPM indicated on #5 would seem within normal params. So it begs the question, why is #1 NOT indicating the double firing? Does this oddity indicate something wrong with the ECM, one of the coil packs or ? Thanks for the help guys, I really do appreciate it. Next time I am gonna bring all of my tools with me when I go to Dad's Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #9 – September 06, 2012, 11:55:12 PM Ok an update. We took the Explorer up to Advance and had them pull the codes. There were two sets of two codes, in other words the same two codes were set twice if that os really relevant.Codes:P0455 : Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected Gross LeakP1309 : Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P1309 indicates Misfire Detection Monitor is not enabled.P0455, according to the Ford shop manual, can be caused by: Missing or loose fuel cap Incorrect fuel filler cap used Fuel filler cap remains open or fails to close Foreign matter caught in fuel filler cap EVAP canister or fuel tank leaks EVAP system hose leaking Fuel tank leaking Help with thisDad had a locking gas cap in place of the original and we confirmed this was the cause of the P0455 DTC by clearing the code and reinstalling the original cap and going for test drive. That was was easy...It would appear that we have located the root cause of the apparent misfire. The P1309 DTC can be caused by the CPS being out of synchronization. According the the Ford Shop manual, the connector should be pointed to the front of the engine, parallel with the CL of the engine or at the 6 o'clock position. The first clue that something might be amiss was that the connector was clocked to the 5 o'clock position. I turned the engine over and located TDC and then removed the CPS to have a look at the alignment of the vein. The vein was clocked to between 3 and 4 o'clock with the engine set at TDC instead of being in alignment with the sensor pickup. I could have gone ahead and guessed at setting it up correctly, but Dad had purchased the CPS Synchronization tool sometime in the past. Unfortunately, my Brother borrowed it and hadn't returned it, but he is supposed to do so on his way to work tomorrow morning. I should be able to use the tool to install the CPS correctly and have the Exploder all back together sometime before noon, The Good Lord willing. To get the CPS out, I had to disassembled quite a bit, since the "mechanic" that installed the reman'd engine went a bit berzerk with the front lower intake manifold gasket goo and basically glued the CPS into the block. I had to remove the breather, throttle body cable bracket, coil pack bracket and cut about 13 zip ties. Once I got it that far, I was able to get the small amount of leverage necessary to unlock the CPS and remove the drive assembly in preparation for proper installation. I'll update when I know more in the morning. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #10 – September 07, 2012, 06:44:06 AM So your cam synchro wasn't installed properly. Some guys think they can set the synchro without the alignment tool, sometimes you can, but it's usually dumb luck. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #11 – September 07, 2012, 11:20:51 AM Glad you got it figured out. Props for helping your old man out. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #12 – September 07, 2012, 12:21:50 PM Cam sync is the killer that is why codes are so important. Cant set it without the tool. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #13 – September 07, 2012, 02:51:32 PM If you use the tool, it is impossible to install it out of sync. The drive itself could still be installed slightly askew of centerline, depending on how the cam, was or was not degreed when installed. The idle improved and the roughness is less noticeable, but there is still a stumble, but this was before I disconnected the battery so the computer could start fresh and learn the new parameters. I'll let everyone know how that goes when I reconnect the battery and take her for a drive. As it now sits, the stumble is almost as if the cam is retarded, but I won't be able to know that unless I have to tear down the front end of the motor and if that has to happen, I might be better off to yank the motor and look at everything. We shall see.Thanks for all of the help guys, both Dad and I appreciate it. Quote Selected
Cam and firing order Reply #14 – September 07, 2012, 05:54:32 PM Ok, I reconnected the battery and took it out for a test drive and the drivability was vastly improved, though it still had a bit of a struggle under load. We got back to the house and I changed the plug wires to the truck 5.0 firing order. Immediately in the driveway, the idle was much smoother, so we took it out for another test drive. It climbed the hills of TN without any problems whatsoever, though it still acts as if the cam is retarded just a bit. What this tells me is that the cam the reman'd engine cam with is NOT an Explorer cam, nor is it a Mustang cam, both of which use the H.O firing order. After some discussion, we feel like the next step is to tear down the top end and pull out the cam to see what the part number is on it. Can anyone tell me the part number for the proper Explorer cam? We called the Ford Tech line and they said that while the engine will run without the proper cam, it will cause issues with the adaptive fuel mapping since the companion cylinders swapped will cause problems with the sequential fuel injection and will result in a rich/lean race condition in the PCM, eventually throwing a code and the CEL will come one... AGAIN.While I have it torn down, I plan to degree the new cam and check the timing chain, etc. Dad had purchased a new Cloyes double roller timing set which is still in the box. I could just leave it alone, but since Dad got taken and at 71 and in a wheelchair, he just can't do this type of work anymore. I don't feel right just leaving it as it is or taking a "close enough" attitude. Quote Selected
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