***PROJECT TO DO LIST***
Buy stock 5.0 engine - done
Disassemble engine - done
Send short block to machine shop for refresh - done
Begin gathering parts - done
Final assembly - done
Engine Swap - DONE
Parts list:
Explorer intake - check
65mm TB - check
Stock HO cam - check
19lb Injectors - check
GT40Y Aluminum heads - check
1.7 roller rockers - check
Fuel pump - check
Fuel pressure regulator - check
***T5 swap list***
T5 tranny - check
Bellhousing/fork - check
Clutch - check
Flywheel - check
Pedals - check
Adjustable cable - check
Aluminum quadrant - check
Shifter console piece/boot - check
Dust shield - check
Hey guys, it's been a while since I've posted any real updates on my Tbird. Last Thursday, I got 3.27 ratio gears installed and they have made a world of a difference. A lot of people overlook 3.27s in favor of 3.55s or 3.73s, when they're really not needed for a regularly driven car. The 3.27s do the job perfectly, making the car far more responsive and it really gets off the line quickly. It spins at 2000rpm at highway speed, which is about as high as I'd like to go for a DD. I'm planning to get a shift kit and speedo gear soon, but nothing else major till the summer.
Here are some new pics of the car:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Tbird011.jpg)
Shiny cleaned interior
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Tbird023.jpg)
My friend being a smartass
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Tbird010.jpg)
After lots of thinking, I've decided to go with a budget 351W build, starting this summer. I'd like to start off with a cheap block (I've seen em on ebay for $400 including shipping) and just work my way through it piece by piece over the next 12-18 months. I'm looking for 350-400hp at the flywheel, and I plan to hook up a WC T5 to it. From the little research I've done, it looks like I'll be much better off going with a carb setup. I'd like to keep this build as cheap as possible (without getting unreliable parts). Any recommendations or comments are welcome.
Looking good :D . I think you need a 21 tooth purple auto trans gear for your speedo. Your local Ford dealer should have one. It costs ~$10 (that's what I paid for mine about 5 years ago).
Oh and how do you get your sunglasses to stay in that little cubby spot in the dash? Mine always fly out when I jab the throttle ;)
Haha a lot of times, the sun glasses will be hanging out, but somehow stay in there. I'm wearing them most of the time though...or they just go flying somewhere.
sweet. still one of my favorite cars here. i personally would rather see you go with a used blower or a decent heads, cam intake etc. combo.
a 351W would be sweet BUT im sort of anti carb. not a fan at all. id keep it f.i. id probably actually build a 331 instead. find a cheap powerdyne or used vortech, paxton or ati and throwit on there. it would keep the powerband up higher where i think it should be on a street car.
id also probably get a rebuild kit from g force and rebuild a T5 with that instead of a new stock one. that or a T56.
either way, good luck dude. keep it up.
Not to change the topic, but your interior looks really nice. I'm liking those door panels. simple, maybe even better than my TC panels. I also like the more sturdy/built in map pockets... probably won't fall off like all the TC ones!
hmm... I wonder if I should pic some of those up.....?
Thanks for the compliments. I always try to keep the interior armor all'd and clean, but it hadn't been really vacuumed out in a while. It's definitely what I consider to be one of the best attributes of my car. The previous owner took great care of it and I plan to keep it that way.
@shame302: If I can do what you said for the same price or cheaper, and get about the same performance, I'm all for it! I'm still researching my options at the moment, so things can change.
Here's an interior shot from the other side:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Tbird008.jpg)
im with shame on keeping the 302 block. you need to remember that a lot of your 302 parts wont work on the 351w. headers, oilpan, intake, distributor, etc.
Yeah, I'm not planning to use anything from my current engine (it will be going in another project at a later time). This is a fresh build. If it's cheap and easy to take a stock 302 block and get that same performance out of it for the same price or less, I'll definitely look into it.
I'm not the only one :hick:
I wouldn't even consider the bigger Windsor block uness it was punched to 393 cubes or better....The TFS H/C/I combo is right at the lower end of your HP needs....
If I were to do it again I'd have ported the heads and done up a custom cam and got even more out of it...
Yeah my original idea of a 331 is looking like a very viable option as well.
you really don't need to spend money on a 331. My last combo on a stock 302 block was very fun and made lots of power. Edelbrock heads/cobra intake/ trickflow cam. I think its similar to toms turbocoupe except he uses trickflow heads (which runs low 12's)
My point is if spending all that extra $$ on a stroker kit is worth it to you than do it. I think the stroker is nice and will make more power, but it doesn't go along with a budget build in my opinion. A budget build would be a fresh 302, used edelbrock or trickflow heads, stock ho cam or trickflow, and used cobra intake with 65mmtb and 24#injectors.
Also I read on your thread on the corral that your looking to build a 13 second street car. I got news for you, you already have a near 13 second car. I ran 14.20's in my tbird with a HO, AOD, 373's, pulleys, and header + hpipe on street tires.
an edelbrock/trickflow/afr head combo would get you in the 12's on 302 block any day of the week with more rear and better tires. You could buy a set of AFR 165's with the money that would be spent on a stroker kit right?
Thats sounds great, thanks a lot. I'm workin on a lead for a complete 5.0 HO from an 88 GT for $375, which would be a perfect starting point, and I'd have parts I could sell. I'll have to work out some parts lists and see how the prices stack up.
if you plan on keeping your current motor, then id say put a 351 together then.
if i ever get another fox chassis, it will have a 351w.
Ok well here's a (very rough) parts list for a 302 build (not including the bottom end):
Camshaft:
Trick Flow Track Max Hydraulic Roller Camshaft - $164
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS%2D51402001&autoview=sku
Heads:
Ford Racing M-6049-X303 $550 Each
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D6049%2DX303&N=700+4294867081+4294867028+4294908331+4294840126+115&autoview=sku
Intake:
Ford Racing Cobra Intake
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D9424%2DZ51&N=700+4294908331+4294840126+4294889096+4294925239+4294839079+400070+115&autoview=sku
Fuel Injectors:
Ford Racing 24#
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D9593%2DA302&N=700+4294908331+4294840126+4294889096+4294925239+4294870762+115&autoview=sku
Rocker Arms:
Comp Cams full roller 1.7 ratio
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D1450%2D16&autoview=sku
Throttle body:
Summit 65mm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D227203&N=700+4294908331+4294840126+4294889096+4294925239+4294859865+115&autoview=sku
Total ~$2200
This list is obviously assuming that I'll buy everything new (which I won't) so there is A LOT of room here for savings. It is also just a quickie parts list I did in about 15 minutes to give myself a general idea of prices. I have no idea how to look at cam specs and head specs and figure out good combos, so keep that in mind. This is mostly a pricing list. I noticed aluminum heads aren't much more expensive than cast iron ones, so I'm definitely going to stick with those. I will use the lifters and pushrods and bottom end from a stock Mustang HO engine.
carb is sounding pretty good!!!!!!!! LOL I have that cam
Thunder306 was talking about getting in the low 12's speaking from someone that has a low 12' high 11 car it is a long hard expensive road.It sounds like you are going the right way about it by asking a lot of questions
Yea I'm definitely not shooting directly for 12s. Just mid/low 13s would be perfect as a short term (1-1.5 year) goal.
Gonna need a high stall converter for that cam if you stay auto.
Well a better question would be: Is that cam even right for my combo? There is a more mild one for $159. Like I said, I'm a bit too new at this to really know how to set up H/C/I combos.
That's the TFS stage 2 cam. I run a stage 1 with Out of the box Twisted Wedge heads and run a 2800 stall converter.....BTW I run 1.6 rockers....
That cam with 1.7 rockers..... I'd be wanting those X heads ported....You still running flat tops?
No this is going to be a different engine so I can build it while still driving the Tbird. I'm currently talkin to a guy who is selling a complete 5.0HO from an 88GT for $375, which would be a perfect starting point, and I'd have plenty of parts to sell off.
So the stage 1 cam with 1.6 ratio rockers would fit my needs fine with some nice aluminum heads? Twisted Wedge seems a bit out of my price range though.
For a set they are around $1200 assembled....
Hmmm ok I'll go look into them then :)
Too bad your not closer to me, my shortblock would be a better starting point: its already rebuilt only 9k on it, and I could make a nice deal for you for the trickflow cam and 1.6 roller rockers, and 65mm tb, and headers + hpipe.. and you wouldn't have 2 sets of HO parts laying around. Don't forget you get the HO motor thats in your car now.
Yeah I plan to sell off the parts I dont need from this engine (The HO currently in my car is going to be used in a later project). As for the cam, headers, TB, and rockers (theyre roller, right?) what kinda deal are you talkin about?
EDIT: Someone on another forum mentioned that I'd have to do a mass air conversion. Is this true? Or will it be able to work fine with speed density?
look in the classified section all my parts are there.
Alrighty, I will. Does anyone know if I'll have to go mass air or not?
Got another question: which model of Twisted Wedge heads would work well with my combination? I'm currently looking at these:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS%2D51400002&N=700+400098+301941+115&autoview=sku
I have these.....http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-51400004 They are what comes in the H/C/I kit now.....
The spring setup is different. You CAN run a larger cam should you wish to do so. You'd need these for the stage 2 or stage 3 cam. The other set will work for the stage 1.
best advise i can give you. is think everything through, develop a plan, and stick to it. the 347 build up im doing started out as a simple high output conversion beliave it or not. the reason being, i didnt stick to my original plan.
i didnt want to run my original e6 heads because if i was gonna do this, i didnt wanna have pier heads then a stock stang. so i bought procomp 190cc (cheaper versions of edelbrocks) well the PTV clearance was too close and i got worried and decided i need to rebuild the shortblock with reliefed pistons. then i figured if im gonna rebuild it, i might as well stroke it... then if i'm gonna have a 347 i should have a custom cam so it'll be JUST how i want it...and now im finding out that the heads i bought (the ones that started this snowball) arent the best heads to sopport a 347. :hick: and not only that but all the other HO stuff, cam, computer, injestors, etc. are pretty much useless as well.
you're a young kid like myself, i know how its easy to get the mindset of "if i do this, i can squeeze a couple more ponies and itll be badass". but after spending so much time and SO MUCH money i still kinda wish a just ran those e6's.
another word of advise to go along with plan everything well idea. if the price seems too good to be true it probably is. cus spending a couple more dollars the first time around can save you thousands in the end. if i wouldve bought trick flow heads right off the bat, i wouldve have to worry about maybe buying ANOTHER set now.
i apoligize if this seems rant-ish, but i'm really trying to save you time and money in the long run. planing, researching, qaudruple checking, and taking the little extra time and money to do it right once, can save you soo much at the end
Keith
Problem is that it never ends.....1.7 rockers are in the works now here.....
You dont plan to keep DDing it do you?
You don't need to dish out on an HO mustang engine. Just get regular SO Roller Block since you are not using any parts from it anyway and its the same block as the HO.
You could get one for about $150
Carb setup will be cheaper and save you a lot of time and headaches.
@Carl: Well I want the HO for a couple of reasons. For one, it comes with reliefed pistons, so if I'm able to stick with the stock bore, I wont have to change pistons. Also, it's just $375. I can sell the rest and make at least half of it back. I'm pretty much decided on sticking with EFI. Same performance, but better econimically. Even when its DD duties are over, it will still be regularly driven 1-3 times a week depending on weather.
@bhazard: I'm not 100% sure where I'll be when the engine is ready, so it may have to go a couple of months as a DD, but no longer than that.
@V8Demon: Thanks for that info. I'll look at prices and all and decide if I want to step up to the stg 2 cam. Will a Cobra Intake be able to support all of that air flow?
And I still dont know if I need mass air flow either.
Love your bird man. Great to see one is still clean like that.
Stepping up to something with a smaller Lobe separation angle like the TFS cams with their somewhat long duration basically necessitates Mass Air. There was a guy on 50tech.com who used my cam with SD for a while.....Great at the track, a grumpy old bear around town. He did the Mass Air swap and was overjoyed.
A Cobra manifold should be just fine. If you want more top end you could run something with shorter runners.
I'll make it easy. Here's my motor and it's supporting cast:
Motor:
'87 block rebuilt 30k on pistons, rods, crank--pistons are forged flat-tops
TFS stage 1 cam
Twisted Wedge Heads
TFS Street Heat intake
1.6 ratio stud mount roller rockers (also TFS)
TFS valve covers
70 mm edelbrock throttle body and spacer
73 mm C&L MAF meter
Edelbrock aluminum water pump
K&N FIPK
Ford Motorsport blue hoses
Mr. Gasket 180* T-stat
Mac 1 5/8" Equal length ceramic coated shorty headers (New as of 9/20/07)
Mac 2 1/2" H-pipe (New as of 9/20/07)
Borla XR1 center inlet/outlet 2 1/2" lers with dumps (New as of 9/20/07)
Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator and guage (20K)
Ford Racing Mass Air conversion kit
Ford 24lb injectors set to 48 PSI (at that pressure they flow at about 26 lb/hour)
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
Ford Racing A/C delete kit (15K)
Ford Racing 9mm wires (Changed EVERY 15K)
Accel U-Groove plugs gapped at .051"
Thank you very much for that info. How difficult and expensive is it to switch to MAF? That's the one thing I'm a little worried about. I also noticed one of the kits is for automatic only. I do have the AOD, but the computer is for a 5 speed. I'm assuming there are 5 speed kits too. Which do I need? (I'm switching to 5 speed down the road...)
The full kit has a new computer. If you're gonna switch to 5 speed do up a 5 speed setup. Many of the MAF swap components can be found at a salvage yardor even in the marketplace here. I bought the whole kit for convenience.
Yeah I know. I've been thinking about a KB blower for mine..........;)
told you so. did you ever end up putting those forged slugs in there?
Well I've heard that there are some cams I can run that'll work with SD. I'll have to look into it.
PS - anybody see a change in my sig? :D
DUDE thats F' ing awesome! :]
They do have the SD kit.....
Well luckily I have several cam options that will work with speed density, so I'm going to save the money and hassle and go down that road.
I saw it in your 1st post :evilgrin:
Best advise I've heard, If I knew now what I knew then. :toilet:
No doubt they'll be my next head purchase.
Just called the guy up for that HO engine. Gonna be pickin it up on the 23rd. If anyone needs HO parts, just let me know! I'll have some up for sale.
x2 for post #30
Nope hyper. I'd have to run a low ammount of boost so I don't blow 'em up :hick: .
I saw :D
It's probably a pipe dream though. It really doesn't need it, it's strong enough. Then again who doesn't like stupid ammounts of power..........
you wont get stupid amounts of power with those shiznitty pistons. certainly not for long anyway. as specially with a KB. ;)
I've been kinda out of order the past couple of days due to a bad cold. Just lookin forward to gettin my grubby hands on a new engine to build.
My psitons will have speed holes:hick:
The motor wasn't set up for a blower to begin with. If I ever do a blower it'll be something like a 331 with good heads, a blower cam, and a KB blower on it. But it won't go in this car. I'd really like to find an 86 5.0 T-bird to stuff that in............;)
I am thinking about getting a Modular 4v 5.4 for my cat after being very impressed with how well my truck gets moving! Thats only a 2V :]
that'd be a cool project!
yeah look at your thread ;]
Can anyone else comment on which speedo gear I need? Tryin to figure out which one to get.
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_47676/tm.htm Judging from the list in this thread, looks like I need a 19 tooth Tan gear.
And look, a purple 21 tooth gear for 3.73s, which would back up Tjet's statement.
The chart you found is for Mustang AODs which have a 7 tooth speedo drive gear. T-birds and Cougars use an 8 tooth drive gear. Since you're car has an 8 tooth drive gear the 21 tooth driven gear should be pretty much spot on for you. With 3.73 gears I have to run a 23 tooth driven gear in mine because of the factory tranny 8 tooth drive gear. Mine's still ~2-3 mph off at speed though.
Ok thanks for that info. I'll go pick one up tomorrow.
As for my engine project, I'll be picking it up this coming Saturday morning. I'm sure I'll start tearing it down during the following week or weekend, and I'll definitely take pics.
But, now that I have decided almost everything about my setup, I need to decide on a cam and a couple of other small details. So far, here's my checklist:
- Twisted wedge heads (single valve spring)
- 65mm or 70mm TB
- 1.6 or 1.7 ratio roller rockers
- Explorer intake
- 24# injectors
Ok, lets keep my goal in mind of 350 flywheel hp (a little more never hurts though ;) ). Before I can really decide on the throttle body size or roller rocker ratio, I think it would be best to figure out what cam I will be getting. This is where some comments and suggestions are very welcome. I took a look at the Crower cams (15511 and 15510) and they just seem a bit expensive. So now I turned my attention to the Comp Cams xe264 and xe270. Which one of these would get me to my hp goal? Here are links:
xe264: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D35%2D349%2D8&autoview=sku
xe270: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D35%2D351%2D8&autoview=sku
Then according to the cam I get, which throttle body and roller rocker ratio would work best?
The TW heads and GT-40/Cobra H/I swap are proven combination. If you want to make best power and drivablity within your desired RPM range, a custom cam is the way to go. Springs have to be matched to the cam (it's not uncommon to need an upgrade, even on new heads). Check out SBFTECH.com, there is a ton of information on what goes into an ideal camshaft and spring selection. Jay Allen, a sponsor/moderator on the site can design a cam for you or recommend an off the shelf (OTS) cam for a fee. A custom SADI core cam (the same core Comp Cams uses), run about $300 from Jay (price is based on the info I saw on Jay's site. Camshaftinnovations.com). A guess from someone on this board on which Comp Cam to buy, will still run you $260 and you may not be happy with how it runs. If you pay Jay to pick an OTS cam, I believe it's $50, so the out of pocket is a little more than if you have him custom make one. In this case, playing the budget card for $40-$50 is moot.
My experience with two very different engines (a 347/carb and a 306/F/I) made a believer out of me! I've run a few Comp Cams, a Lunati and a Ford Motorsport cam in both these engines, searching for performance and drivablity. It would have been much cheaper for me if I had gone custom to begin with. My previous sources of information on cam selection were: Magazine articles, cam "tech lines" and various on-line forums. This resulted in an expensive trial and error process, which ended when I got a cam and valve springs matched to my engine and driveline.
An Explorer intake is not going to get you to 350hp. Maybe if it was ported by a pro.
So what intake would you recommend? I've heard from lots of people, like 86tbird, that the Cobra intake/TW heads are a very popular combo for that power range.
@86Tbird - Great information. I know some guys that can do some custom cam work. But if I'm understanding you right, I'd have to pay Jay Allen for him to just recommend a cam? I'll probably just have one custom made then.
He does offer the service for folks that really want an OTS cam, but it works out to be cheaper to have him do a cutom unit.
For a street intake, the GT-40/Explorer/Cobra is pretty hard to beat, particularly for the price of an Explorer unit. They shine on low end torque. Having a lower flowed and balance by a professional will enhance the performance. I had the lower done by Panhandle Performance. It was done beautifully, however, you can play the budget card on that!
There are intakes that perform better in the upper RPM range, but it may not be worth the trade off on loss of low end torque. If you drag race a lot, you may see a benefit.
I did make 295 RWHP and 330 RWTQ when I used one of the Comp Cams, however, it was miserable to live with (plus it wouldn't pull past 5,600 due to valve train instability)!
Well my Tbird will always be used mainly on the street. 95% of the time. So the low end torque is more important to me. Also, around 300hp at the wheels is spot on where I want to be, so it looks like I'm on the right track. I'm not looking for an engine that will spin high rpms either. Just to 5500 or so.
You should end up with a really fun ride!
If you do work with Jay, he will usually help to sort out which injectors, rockers and throttle body will work best. He will have you fill out a "build sheet", which lists all the specifics of your car, from weight, to gear ratio, transmission type, clutch or stall converter, fuel system, ect. If there are parts of the combination you don't have, you may want to put in: "please recommend", he will. Be prepared to educated, Jay will explain far more than expected and help you short cut any problems that he may see. He becomes your advocate to get the most out of your project.
86tbird thanks for the info, even though its for him, im gonna have to talk to him about having a cam done for my 351w in my mustang!!
FWIW, expect to spend around $300+ on a custom cam alone. custom cams arent really needed for a "budget" project. those are for serious drag racers, who want every bit of available horsepower. you would do just fine with an OTS cam.
Well the comp xe264 is already $260. Even so, which of the two cams would you guys recommend between the xe264 and xe270? And with which TB/rockers?
my stang is gonna be street/strip so i dont want any OTS cam
good luck man, once your done with the bird it might be a good race for the stang. Don't forget that we still are gonna race hahah!
Dont worry, I'll have plenty of firepower here waitin for ya :burnout:
im hoping to be adding some to the stang too! I wanna be able to beat your bird and your dads chevelle!
***"FWIW, expect to spend around $300+ on a custom cam alone. custom cams arent really needed for a "budget" project. those are for serious drag racers, who want every bit of available horsepower. you would do just fine with an OTS cam."***
__________________
I guess it depends on what is considered "budget". IMHO, the amount of money spent upgrading heads, intake (including injectors, T/Body/Air Mass Meter), exhaust and a cam, has stepped up out of the budget category. An extra $50-$100 on a camshaft that is designed to work with a combination, is a minimal addition.
The engine I have in my T-bird far from a serious drag racing piece. With the addition of the custom cam, it has become an incredible street engine. It has the ability to pull decent times at the track, get good gas milage, it is easy to live with around town and great fun to drive!. I did not get that kind of performace with an OTS cam.
Will OTS cams run? Of course, almost any cam within reason will run. The question becomes: Will it run how you expect/hope? I'm relating my experience. There was DRAMATIC difference between several OTS cams and the custom unit in my combination. With the results I've seen, this is the only route I would consider in the future, even if the cost were considerably higher. It has been the biggest bang for the buck item I have ever added to an engine (and I have bought a lot of camshafts and put together quite a few engine combinations!).
Everyone has an opinion. Custom cams may seem hard to justify, as they cost more. It can be money well spent.
86tbird recommended me to jay for my 347 project, and i gotta say, jay is an awesome dude. he really knows his stuff. and he's an easy guy to work with, if you actually try to work with him. i've seen people get upset when he tells you that you have a terrible set up going, and try to fight him and thats only when problems seem to arise. if you got a turd a'brewin, he'll tell you, flat out, but if your patient and try to work with him, he'll cut you slack cus he knows that you truly want to do it right. his biggest issue with people tend to be your valvetrain as a whole, everything needs to work together, and he knows what works and what doesnt. granted, my car will be more race oriented then your car, so i'm a little more dependant on everything cooperating. basically it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend, how willing you are to wait, and how willing you are to put up with any corners you cut now once the whole thing is done.
average compcams SADI core cam is $250
jay allen SADI custom cam (hyd,rol) is $300
jay allen billit core custom cam (hyd,rol) $400
you could probably get away with an SADI core for just street use. so about $50 more for one made specifically to your liking. but call him or email him with any questions, cus as soon as you fill out a build sheet, he assumes that youre ready to buy a cam.
Well guys, just picked up the engine yesterday. It's complete, including accessories. Seems to be the perfect starting point. I'll get pics soon, but I'm exhausted and I have to go to work for a little bit today.
cant wait to hear about your progress!!
Well, just grabbed a couple of pics of it. Cant wait to start tearin it apart!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/HPIM1154.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/HPIM1156.jpg)
Doesn't look pretty now, but don't expect it to stay like that for long!
42lb'ers, sweet......
Yeah those are dirty 19lbers.
Haha yeah I read that and then scrolled back up "wait a sec aren't those the same ones I put in..." :hick: Oh well I've made FAR worse goofs I'll openly admit that right now!
Yep, just regular ol' 19 lbers. It seems that the engine hasnt been tampered with much, if at all. Which is a good thing. No mistakes to have to fix. But won't know for sure until I start diggin in.
!....I failed on that one. You got to admit, they do look like the green 42's.
I'm planning to begin the tear down process tomorrow, so expect pics and a report of anything I may or may not find :) . Can't wait to start gettin my hands dirty.
Double Quarter Pounders, sweet......
Well, the project is finally underway. Yesterday my friend came over and we tore the engine down (and yes, we labeled all the bolts and stuff). We found some nice surprises, such as the lack of sludge and the fact that the cylinder walls are in AWESOME shape. The crosshatching is clear as day and there are no rough edges around the tops of the walls either. It looks like the bottom end will be definitely reusable, which will save me lots of money. We're going to measure the bore and such before making the final decision, but it seems promising. I tried taking pics of the cylinder walls but they came out terrible (but you can still see the cross hatching in the 2nd pic). Here are the pics I have right now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/mike1small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/bottomendsmall.jpg)
There's still a long road ahead, but I'm glad to finally get rollin :) .
PS - if anyone needs HO parts, drop me a PM
Nice work area! I would find it easier to head out to the garage, if mine looked more like that!
any updates on this?
I've done some money saving and some research. I re-evaluated my goals and my parts lineup and decided I'd ask a few more questions on Corral. It's pretty unanimous that GT40P heads, Explorer intake, stock HO cam, 65-70mm throttle body, 1.7 rockers, and headers (for the GT40Ps) would bring me my goal for mid/low 13s. This would end up costing A LOT less and get me to my main goal. So that's the direction I'm heading for. Guess I should change the thread title to "13 sec Tbird project" haha. I thought I'd need more hp, but apparently not :) .
I've also saved up some money and the bottom end should be heading to the machine shop in a couple of weeks for a honing and trip to the hot tank. While it's in there, I'll be gathering the rest of the parts. The nice thing about the budget drop is that I'm not as worried about having to get new pistons in case the bottom end needs boring.
So that's where she lies now.
sounds good! Much like my project motor
cant wait for u to get it done!
Love your idea and I came to the exact same conclusion. I feel a little better about my direction. I have found that you can get an Explorer engine with 50k or less for under $600, so that's where I'm going, with a twist. Currently our company sells ECMs for the Ford 4.2L(and I'm a calibrator), which has the same cam/crank pattern as the Explorer engine, and runs coil packs. As I left the company yesterday, I asked the owners if they would mind if I took an ECM and harness stuff to calibrate and they were on board. I'm pretty excited about it. Once I get to Iowa, I'll get a house, then an engine and start the harness build.
I'll be anxious to hear how your engine performs.
Yeah, and I figure that since I'm completely refreshing the bottom end of this engine, I can just focus on H/C/I down the road when I have the rest of my car ready for more power.
Just an update: I'm purchasing an explorer intake with a 65mm TB for the setup. The same guy thats selling me the intake is also selling GT40Ps; he said he'd sell them both to me for $430 shipped, which is a very good deal. However, I'm looking into the idea of porting the E7s I already have; we can get work done cheap thanks to the local machine shop where we've had work done for the past ~15 years. So later this week I should know which direction I'm headed. I also plan to port the lower Explorer intake; lots of guys are hittin high 200s at the wheels with the same combo.
Get the gt-40p's and port them. Don't sell yourself short your just going to want more power a year from now.
Get the GT40Ps (says the guy with GT40P heads ;) ) you'll like them and ported they are even better than ported E7s. Depending on how much port work you do you *may* be able to get away with keeping SD if you keep the stock HO cam. If you do go mass air it's easy enough to do. My combo (which is very similar to what you are looking at) ran fin on SD. I just went to mass air because I was tired of some funy idle problems it developed every once in awhile. Plus now that I have mass air I was able to lower the idle back down to stock levels so it has that great rumpty-rump idle :D
If you have any questions on GT40Ps or modifying the Exploer intake to get rid of those goofy vac fittings you won't use just pm me.
Oh and one more thing. If you keep the AOD put a converter in it. I should have put a 2400-2600 stall converter in mine when the engine was out but I didn't. Probably would have made a difference in the SOTP meter.
Personally, if I were in your situation I would forget about the gt-40p heads and put that money towards balancing the rotating assembly and flycutting your pistons/getting new pistons, decking the block etc. I would get the short block done right first. That way should you not be happy with the power level you can always upgrade to bigger heads and a bigger cam. Other wise you'll just end up tearing the whole thing apart later and doing it all over again...
My 2 cents..
I'm going to keep the short block stock, but it will be sent to the machine shop for honing and new bearings; it'll be completely refreshed. And actually, in all honesty, im STILL not bored with the stock 5.0 HO's power...I'm just tired of the oil leaks.
@Tjet: Yeah, I'll definitely want to clean up the explorer intake so I'll be looking for some info there.
Also, it's worthy to note that I'm also looking into a VERY good deal for some GT40Y aluminum heads. I'll have more info on that soon, so stay tuned :) .
You can get an entire gt40p engine for $500 off car-part.com in your area.
Yeah, I realized that GT40P engines are cheap...oh well, I already have the engine and most of the parts. I may be getting different heads anyway.
Just let me know what you need to know when you start working on it.
***UPDATE 6/24***
Alrighty, just sent out a money order for an upper/lower explorer intake with 65mm TB. I'm excited to be getting the first parts in for the project!
Also, on July 5th, I should be heading down to Charlotte to meet the guy with the GT40Y aluminum heads. I already have almost enough saved up for his initial asking price, and the full purchase is still 8-10 weeks away. The guy I am dealing with is well respected on Corral and is going about this very professionally. I'm looking forward to meeting him, dealing with him, and seeing/riding in his car!
That's it for now, stay tuned! I'll be sure to post pics of the intake/TB once it arrives. I'll be cleaning up the whole setup and then getting the lower ported, so there will also be progress pics.
is the shortblock done yet?
The short block still needs to be disassembled the rest of the way (pistons, rods, and crank are still in it) and sent to the shop. I'm currently putting my money towards the deals I've been able to find. The heads are the big money pit and once I get those, I'll work on the rest. I'm not rushing this project; my main goal is to have it ready to install by the end of winter/beginning of spring next year. I'm also spending a little more time saving up for the aluminum heads; they're a bit more expensive than the cast Ps, but I think when it's all said and done, I'll be happier. If the project done earlier, great, but if not, I'm still enjoying the car as it is.
How much did you pay for the explorer set up??
theres another fix for that problem
throw in a 5 speed like im doing!
Nothing new right now as far as the engine project is concerned. The intake has been shipped and should be here next week. I'll definitely post pics when I get it and as I clean it up.
However, I did take a few videos of the Tbird stretching its legs so I could compare the 2.73 days with how she is now with the 3.27s. I never realized how much difference it made till I could make a direct comparison.
(NOTE: crank the sound up :D . The cam I used sucks at picking up sound)
With 2.73s:
Up to 75 mph
http://media.putfile.com/incar-82
With 3.27s:
Up to a little over 80mph (very slight rolling start)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/?action=view¤t=Acceleration001.flv
Up to 65mph (very slight rolling start)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/?action=view¤t=Acceleration004.flv
0-60mph run (approx 6.5 seconds)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/?action=view¤t=Acceleration005.flv
Note the difference in how it revs. Before, it took seemingly FOREVER to get into the power band. And yes, the speedometer is still off since I haven't gotten a new gear for it. But after driving it like this, I do know that at the most, it is 10mph fast (and is more accurate towards each end of the speedo's range). So in the 0-60 run, I ran the speedo to the 70 mark.
So anyways...yeah...even the stock HO has GUTS! Can't wait to post vids like this when the new engine is in.
im curious as to what power your gonna get.
I cant wait for you to finish so I can see just around where im gonna land for power!
Yeah it's hard for me to just not grab a cheap set of GT40Ps and get this thing together ASAP. But I'm really gonna take my time on this, spend the extra money on the heads, spend some time porting the lower intake and heads, get the short block refreshed, etc. I know I'll thank myself in the end. I'd love to get 260-270 at the wheels with this. Which puts me right around 300 at the flywheel.
The tbird also might need some new tires soon...which got me thinkin about grabbing a set of snowflakes or somethin while I'm at it. Not sure though; I really want to put all my money towards the heads and getting the short block in the machine shop right now.
well i could have a set to you from the yard up here for a STEAL(pm me if you want to know price)
Im gonna run a explorer upper and lower, 306 bottom end, I decided I'm gonna go with a mild custom cam, gt40 iron heads, headers, open up the intake and heads with some porting, explorer TB for now, later 70MM tb and spacer, then open the next up that big as well, plus the 5 speed, im hopeing close to 300 at the wheels, but it might be a pipe dream. Anything will move this boat better then the H.O!
Yeah 300 at the wheels is probably going to be a very long shot, but who knows. I still don't think my car should be running mid 14s (in non perfect weather no less), but it is.
well my car stock is supose to run 16's so......
around 3900lbs takes a lot to move!!
I just added a project to do list and a parts list to the first post in the thread to keep myself on track and to give everyone else a way to quickly check up on progress. I'll keep it updated as work continues, and if anyone finds deals on parts I still need, feel free to inform me. :)
http://www.fordvschevy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66880
shift kit and torque converter
If you don't grab those I'm coming to Chicago to beat you:beatyoass:
:burnout:
Feel free to donate some money, and I will! :D
But uh...why would you go to Chicago? That's kinda far from where I live.
I've been thinkin a bit lately. The tires on my 8 holes are starting to show their age, so I figure instead of spending money on new tires for these, I should just get a nicer set of rims like I've been wanting for a long time. So now I'm going to add a poll to see what you all think I should get. Choices (4 lug only):
Snowflakes
Turbines
10 holes
Cobra Rs
Other (specify in post)
EDIT: It'd be nice if I knew how to add a poll to a thread...
hey man I got news on all those trans partssss
Ill pm you!
4 lug 17x9 cobra R's that way when you go to 5 lug you don't have buy tires again, thats my 2 cents..
I have another question: do stall converters only change the rpm you can hold the engine at while holding the brakes before launching? Is there any noticeable difference during regular driving?
Relax I'm having the trans rebuilt in the spring;) . I know I've gotten to the point where the stock AOD won't handle my engine anymore :hick:
Higher stall converter is noticable on launch and in everyday driving. It allows your engine to get to peak torque faster which means better acceleration and passing power. It will feel like you've added 50+ ft/lbs of torque to the engine. Plus you should be able to burn the shiznit out of your rear tires at will :burnout:
Unfortunately, they're over $300 new...I'm not going to put that much into the AOD. But if I get a good deal on one, then I may grab it.
With what you are planning you really should upgrade the AOD. Trust me my car is not as wild as your car is going to be and the AOD in mine NEEDS a higher stall torque converter and upgrades so it cope with my engine. It is really holding my car back. If you don't upgrade the AOD it will hold your car back.
BTW where are you getting 215 section tires that cost $300 a piece? ;)
AOD's are for sissies! row your own gears! Swap in a T5 or a stronger manual tranny, and gain a ton of free HP to boot.
That's what I plan to do down the road, and is also why I don't want to put a lot of $$ in the AOD. If I can get a 2400 stall for $200 or so shipped, then I may look into it. But anything more than that is a no-go. I'd rather save for a T5 swap. Judging by my 1/4 time, I don't think the AOD is struggling too bad. It still shifts great, and it's nice for a beginner like me to learn on.
@tjet - I quoted a positive of getting the stall, then replied to it with a negative. I wasn't referring to tires ;)
Woo hoo! I'm excited! The first parts are finally in!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakesmall.jpg) (don't click this, see below)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakesmall.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakesmall2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakesmall3.jpg)
Just a little cleaning, a fresh coat of silver paint, and some porting :evilgrin:, and she'll be good as gold!
Now for the hard part...not sucspoogebing to the temptation of putting it on my current engine! :hick:
EDIT: For some reason, the first picture in this post will always ignore the img tags...so don't click the link; I just posted the pic twice.
Ah got ya. I was wondering who sold 215 section tires for $300 lol ;)
Looks like a nice piece to start with. Before you paint it clean it really good and sand down the casting markes. You won't believe the difference it will make in the appearance of the intake.
I went from my built aod to a t5,I need to learn how to drive again,the wheel spin is rediculis.I kind of miss the aod.
Bye the way its available.
Just went to Charlotte yesterday to meet the guy with the aluminum heads. Took a ride in his 82 Volvo 5.0 (a REALLY clean, FAST, loud car that runs like a bat outta hell and turns on a dime) which was awesome. The guy was very professional, nice, knowledgeable, etc. Had no problems at all dealing with him. Settled on a price of $575, and he'll be bringing them up to me in a few weeks. Can't wait!
He also lives in an upper class neighborhood with lots of Porsches, Range Rovers, etc, and nothing put a smile on my face more than driving around there in a Volvo with a V8 stuffed in it hahaha.
Also, my dad offered to pay for me to get my lower intake ported by Tmoss for my birthday. :D I definitely didn't turn that down.
I've also been told that this cam would work very well with my setup. It has the correct lobe separation for use with SD too.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-35-510-8&autoview=sku
Really with aluminium GT40s and a GT40 intake I would get a cam (or have one made) that will get the most out of your combo. I'm all for SD (I ran it for awhile) but really you would be much happier with a MAF swap. After I did the swap I gained a whole bunch of bottom end and throttle response. The swap takes an hour and the hardest part is getting the wires through the fire wall. I was able to do the swap for $30 ( I got the computer, maf meter, tubes and bracket for free). I just got the maf conector, maf harness, and an EEC-IV main harness connector (for the EEC pins) from the yard for $10 and spent $20 on wires and heat shrink tubing. Hell if you need some EEC pins I'll send 'em to ya for free.
Before you choose a cam and spend good money on it. I recommend reading the "Myths and Rumors" #18 on SBFTECH.com. You have to scroll towards the bottom of the site to find the Myths and Rumors section.
There is a great deal of information in that section (Myths and Rumors) which clarifies a much of the mis-information which is often found on the net and in popular publications.
What you choose to put in your engine is entirely up to you. A little education on "whats and whys" may allow you to make an informed decision.
@tjet: Where did you find those kind of deals? I wouldn't have a problem doing it if it was only $30. Then I'd have a lot more cam choices. Oh, and during the week I'll be cleaning off the explorer intake, so if you wanna lend some tips, feel free.
@86Tbird: Yeah I'm doing my cam research. Thanks. :)
For upper mods see here: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=17493&highlight=explorer+intake
The lower you need to drill out the hole for the ACT sensor as well as the EGR coolant return (if you use it).
As for paint I just cleaned the lower, then primered and painted it. The upper took longer as I sanded off the rough casting edges and then primered and painted it. Also you can cut that y thing off the fins on the *end tank*. I would try to get the upper as smooth as possible before painting as that is what people will see when you open the hood.
Thanks for the info, Tjet. I have PLENTY of time to spend cleaning and polishing stuff to perfection.
Anyways, I went into the garage for about an hour today. Disassembled the intake and started cleaning. Unfortunately a storm rolled in before I could really give a thorough cleaning, but some progress was made. The intake is actually surprisingly clean underneath. Take a look:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakecleaningsmall.jpg)
I'm also looking at spending my extra money on a 2500 stall and transgo shift kit (with a free tranny cooler for $300 shipped) as opposed to porting the heads and intake. Tough decision, but I think it'll end up better. I'm still going to look into how much it'll cost to have the heads ported at the local machine shop (they always cut us insane deals since we've dealt with them for 15 years).
Here's the type of converter I'm dealing on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/B-M-40438-Torque-Converter-Tork-Master-2400-Ford-AOD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ63692QQihZ011QQitemZ320270491462QQtcZphoto
ahh im so glad I passed that deal on to you, I knew youd want it!
I just got an offer for $150 shipped on a Crower 15511 cam. Specs here:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRO-15511&autoview=sku
Hard to pass up a deal like that on a cam that's known to work really well on speed density.
You're shooting yourself in the foot.
I've already been up and down this road several times. As long as the cam choice is right (stock HO, Crower 15511, Comp XE264/270), SD is fine. Feel free to donate some money and/or parts so I can swap to MAF.
Wow $355! thats expensive. If you need to convert to mass air let me know I have a mass air computer and meter for sell that is setup for 24# injectors. I haven't posted it yet but I'll let them go pretty cheap.
Really try to go with MAF instead of SD. My combo runs soooooo much better on MAF than SD that it's not even funny. If you shop around you should be able to get everything you need for less than $150. Find an 89-93 5.0 Stang at the wreakers and just grab everything you need to convert to MAF. Go to the wreakrs or find some local Stang guys to get the stuff from. The stuff you see on ebay is way overpriced.
this guy has an A9L and mass-air harness(no injector harness) for $175
Matt
832 725-1722
I'd love to go to MAF, but it's really pushing my budget at the moment. I'm currently saving to pay off the aluminum heads and possibly jump on the deal with the Crower 15511. But if I go MAF, I'd be tempted to get the comp XE258.
ill look around for you, i find some good deals around here for stuff
just tell me what you want and ill see what I can do. You know I'll take care of you bro
I've got a lot to think about. The deal I could get on the Crower cam is really really good, and it works well for SD. But if I end up going MAF, I'd prefer the really low end power band of a cam like the XE258 that probably wouldn't run that great on SD, and then it would be a good idea to go for a 24lb injector setup, which is even MORE money. So I don't know yet...I just need to stop changing my plans.
im gonna pm you
Ok well I've made some final decisions:
I will not be going MAF right now. Don't have the budget room. Either the stock cam or the Crower 15511 cam will work perfectly fine with SD.
Heads and intake will not be ported at this time, also due to budget room.
I will not be needing 24lb injectors at this time.
Ok, with that said, the final decision I need to make is: Crower 15511 for $150 shipped or stock HO cam for free?
Crower - Really great power from 2,200-5,500. Highly recommended by guys running speed density, and even Tmoss said it'd be a great cam to go with my setup. It'll definitely bump up my rwhp some. Keep in mind that if I go this route, I'll be using 1.6 roller rockers instead, due to possible clearance issues with stock (mustang) 5.0 pistons. (Feel free to chime in on this clearance issue as well.)
Stock - Low end power = fun. And it's free. No extra rwhp bump.
Discuss the cams!
EDIT: On page 2 of my corral thread, there's some very good cam insight. Refer to posts 49, 53-59. http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036977&page=2
Alright....well at least the corral folks helped me out...
Anyways, just spent the afternoon cleaning, sanding, and painting the upper intake. Here's how she looks now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakepaintedsmall1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakepaintedsmall1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Explorerintakepaintedsmall2.jpg)
Lookin a lot better, but I have one more trick up my sleeve before I consider it finished ;) .
I'm also workin on a deal for some 1.7 roller rockers. :)
If you go with the Crower cam be prepaired to have to adjust the idle a bit. As I have run a cam in a SD engine it will require a bit of idle adjustment before it will run right (ie no surging/cut off when stopping). You can raise the idle with either the screw under the TB or one of those air adjuster plates that fits between the IAC and the TB. I have one I don't need now since I went to MAF that I can let go for $5 if you want it.
Also I wouldn't put drag radials on yet (like you were talking about in the Corral thread). I wouldn't trust a 7.5 with them as it increases the likely hood that you will break the rear..........
I'm sticking with the stock HO cam and 1.7 rockers; wanna keep a good bit of low end power.
As far as drag radials go, the 7.5 should be fine (mine is a posi rear also). I just need to grab a driveshaft first. From coolcats:
hahah, boy are you in for a rude awakening....
Ifixyawata had one break when he was just driving.
If it breaks, it breaks. Just gives me a better reason to go ahead and grab an 8.8 when I get the money :) . Besides, it's gonna be a long time before I get another set of rims and DRs. I'll probably have the 8.8 and 5 lug swap done before that time. For now, I'm just gonna enjoy roasting the tires off the line :D
I went through four of them in my '85 cougar... a coule of them were low milers.
Jeez, the thread dies for a week when I need help deciding on a cam, then I make one mention of my 7.5 rear and I get mugged :punchballs:
I'm a poor , slowly piecing together/buying a $1200 engine build that many people could get in a week, much less getting new rims and drag radials. I assure you all that my tires will be the weak link for a long long time. They already are with the stock HO. :hick:
Yea cmon guys were POOOOR COLLEGE STUDENTS lol. It just can't happen. My 7.5 is holdin up great. I think I'm *generally* pretty easy on the car actually, I know my dad flogged the shiznit out of it for 40 freakin thousand miles when it was his car...still doin great.
Ah well you should be fine with the cam then. When staying SD many times it's worth it to stay with the stock cam as it's much more driveable. Believe me I know ;)
BTW what's with the new drive shaft? Is something wrong with yours?
You should have no issue with 1.7's and the Crower......Always check though (you know that though ;) )
My 7.5 takes all the abuse I dish out, the locking unit IS rated for 800 Ft/lbs and I have Moser axles.....
I saw this quote in the Corral thread:
Considering that the stock cam and a fuelie setup (long intake runners) usually peaks at about 1000 RPM below those #'s posted in both HP and Torque and at 0* no less. My combo makes peak torque at around 3700. I aint buyin those #'s.....especially with a set of unported Y's.....
Peak HP RPM
might be close, but peak torque RPM will most likely be a
LOT lower.....I'd guess about 3200 with the cam retarded back a bit.
The 15511 has similar overall duration and slightly less intake duration @ .050" than the TFS1 and has a wider LSA.
FWIW if it were me:
I
WOULD be using 1.7's
I
WOULD be running 4* retard on the cam timing
I
WOULD be running the
Crower 15511Grab that 2400 converter too ;)
@tjet: Yeah my car has the infamous clunking issue; has since the day we bought it.
@V8Demon: you! I finally set my mind on using the stock cam and now you come in here recommending the Crower. Ugh I'll never be able to decide! :toilet: It doesn't help that the $150 shipped offer I got is extremely tempting, but would also still set me back money-wise. Would I still be happy with the low end power of the Crower?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FMS-M-6564-ES51&autoview=sku
Could anybody comment on these rockers? Are they cheap/weak and not worth it, or just cheaper because they aren't all painted up?
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Ignore me!
Glad to see you've finally come to terms with the reality. First step's a doozy alright. :laughing: j/p
WOO HOO! Lookie at what I got today!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Aluminumheads1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Aluminumheads2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/Aluminumheads3.jpg)
I love Christmas in July. Dealing with Michael Yount (corral member) was a pleasure.
good deal! 5.0 mustang magazine got 22rwhp from those same heads.
Show off.......
nice heads!
Thanks guys.
Haha @ the show off comment. I actually realized that these heads are the single most expensive thing I've ever bought myself. Can't wait to put em to good use! May do just some very minor self porting on the exhaust side while I'm at the machine shop. They've known my dad and I for a long time and let us do our own work on the less complex stuff, which cuts even more off the price (if they charge at all).
Just sent out the money order for my 1.7 roller rockers. The final mandatory engine parts :) .
Ok, quick update time:
Tomorrow morning I plan to finish taking apart the short block. Then early this week (Mon-Wed) I'll drop it off at the machine shop, so that'll be getting done as I finish getting all the last few parts. I'll be sure to post pics and such. Also, my 1.7 roller rockers should be here Monday, so that'll be the last of the mandatory engine parts.
So definitely be keeping on eye on my parts list in the OP; it's starting to click away at a very nice pace :D .
Still going HO cam?
At the moment, yes. I'm only going to get a cam if I have extra money at the end of the project; I've also considered getting an offroad H pipe and longtubes. Not sure yet.
Well, the engine is completely torn apart now. The connecting rod/rod cap bearings weren't too pretty; had some serious deep grooves in them. So did the main bearings. Cylinder walls weren't quite as nice as we had initially hoped either. I'm really glad we decided to take it apart and refresh it; it would have only of caused more problems down the road. Hopefully by Wednesday night, it'll be in the machine shop getting the attention it needs.
If I end up needing 306 pistons, does anyone have any good budget-oriented recommendations?
speed pro 2488 slugs
I was lookin at these first; in my price range.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TRW-8KH273CP30&autoview=sku
I'll look at the ones you posted, though. Thanks.
More parts in today!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/rockerssmall1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/rockerssmall2.jpg)
Another check off my checklist :)
You need 4 more rockers. I only count 12 ;)
Haha yeah, didnt feel like taking them all out. I actually only took pics of 6 of em. And they're the Crane rockers that came on the Cobra stangs; have the Crane logo, but also the Ford logo and Ford part no. And these rockers look almost brand new. No markings on the rollers or anything. I doubt they were used much, if at all.
same ones i use on the F100:D :burnout:
As long as they're 1.7s, rollers, and they work, I'm happy. I'm hopin the short block makes it to the machine shop today (Tuesday) or tomorrow.
I just got those exact rockers too.. got them in a trade along with a set of rebuilt cobra GT40 heads...
Cool deal. In a little bit, I'll be headin out to the garage because I'm bored and I wanna sand blast and paint the Stang valve covers. I'll post pics when I'm done.
I swear, if my Cougar runs before your bird, I'm gonna drive up there myself and help you out, lol. :hick:
Haha well right now, I'm just gathering more money for the last few parts, and I'll be waiting on the machine shop for a while. In the meantime, I'm just gonna clean everything up. No reason not to. Around Nov/Dec is when things should kick into gear; get the block back from the shop, build the engine, then do the swap.
Just finished messin with the valve covers; I'm really happy with how they came out.
Before:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/valvecoversbeforesmall.jpg)
After:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/valvecoverspaintedsmall2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/valvecoverspaintedsmall1.jpg)
^My dad should be a foot model hahahaha
I left the oil fill tube shiny and unpainted; I think that provides a really nice contrast. Can't wait to see the engine all together :) .
those dont look sandblasted!
Haha, I ended up using the parts washer to get the grease off, and they cleaned up a lot better than I expected, so I figured I'd see how a coat of paint would look. I may either sand it down or sand blast it anyway, but I wanted to see how they'd look and if I'd like the blue color.
scotch brite and carb cleaner works wonders. :)
Hehe yeah, there's still plenty of time for me to polish everything up. Got plenty of sandpaper in the garage. I'll probably work on it tomorrow...and HOPEFULLY, the short block will be in the machine shop tomorrow. Stupid hair cut appointment at 7pm is gonna throw things off though.
I wish I had a garage to work in, I've been doing all my recent work in the mall parking lot... Everything is together but I just can't her to run, I got a thread in engine tech if you wanna take a look:hick:
I might yank my covers off and do the same as you, they look pretty good man...
Engine block, crank, and pistons are in now at the machine shop. The guy seemed happy with how the cylinder walls look, so there's a decent chance I won't need new pistons. The crank will definitely need to be cut and polished. He'll call me in a couple of weeks with what exactly needs to be done. Can't wait. Just glad to get the ball rolling on that.
Oh - and I'm seriously considering going T5. As long as I get the right deals.
Just closed a deal on a whole bunch of T5 parts. It is a 4cyl tranny however; don't flip out on me, it will NOT be seeing my new power plant (which is still 4-6 months away), nor will it be seeing any rough, hard driving. I'll be selling my AOD setup, and begin looking for a sturdy V8 unit to accompany the new engine when it's ready. For now, the 4cyl unit will serve as a tranny for me to learn on and help make my car a bit more fun to drive as I anxiously await the new engine.
want my t-5 from my stang? Make me a good offer and that will give me a reason to throw the 4 speed in! And give me money for rear gears!
Thanks for making me a sweet deal, Mason!
I just put up a T5 swap list in the original post. As you can see, I've wasted no time wheeling and dealing. I should definitely have this swap done for right around my $500 budget.
get a pilot bearing from a 95 ford probe GT 5spd.
:D went down that road before.... yay! everybodys going 5spd.
What's better about the probe bearing?
It lets you use the 4cyl. T5 behind a 5.0. :burnout:
Oh. I was going to use the 4cyl, but now I've got a sweet deal on an 89 5.0 transmission with only 3500 miles on a rebuild with new gears and synchros. It's got the shorter first gear I want (3.35), and a short throw shifter thrown in too. If anyone wants a 4cyl T5, just let me know; I'm still taking that deal because of all the other stuff that comes with it. He won't sell it seperate.
EDIT: nvm, I asked him if he'd take $125 off the price and sell me everything except the tranny and he agreed. Awesome, makes my life easier.
Great deal.Pics are required when you do the swap.When are you planning on doing it?
Well I should hopefully have all the parts within the next 2-3 weeks. So hopefully in about a month or so. I want the inside to look factory; this is exactly how I want my shifter and boot:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/5speed.jpg)
The sooner we do the swap, the sooner I can sell the AOD and buy the last part needed for my engine swap (the fuel pump). Then just wait for the block to get finished; hopefully I wont need new pistons.
well just so u know the shifter is a b&m ripper short shifter
I have the shifter handle somewhere, its a VERY short peice(maybe 4-5 inchs tall, plus maybe 3/4-1inch more height with the ) and was impossible to use in the 66 thats why the hurst shift handle went on. If I can find the ripper shift handle it will go with the trans, other wise you just get the b&m short shifter without a handle.
I need the hurst one for the 4 speed that I now need to put in.
Video will be comeing in a little bit I'm just finishing cleaning up the car, and ill be pulling it out for you.
Thanks for an excuse to drive it!
I dont know for sure if its the first gear you want, but I know for a fact first gear in that thing with the 4.11's is utterly useless. You get faster launches starting in second, first is only good for spinning tires. Like you said it should work great with your 3.27 gears.
Glad this is working out for us both!
Yeah my rear gears are a lot more conservative. Sounds like you have the 3.35 first gear (which is what the 89 came with), which is what I want. Thanks a ton man!
No prob on giving ya an excuse to drive it :D . I guess you'll need to make another vid once you put the 4 speed in ;)
I just got a Pro 5.0 short throw shifter for a T-5 for 20 bucks from some dude :burnout:
I want a HURST shifter.Nothing else will do.I actually have a vaild reason for that.
My dad has a hurst shifter in the Chevelle - had them rebuild it for $100 and now it rattles in 2nd and 4th, not to mention that they kinda like...FORGOT...about his rebuild and took several months to do it. I'm stayin away from them.
Well he wouldnt let me drive it on the street yet because its been sitting for so long we need to bleed the brakes and check over everything first. I adjusted the rockers and all that so it should be soon, but it might only be with the 4 speed.
So I took a vid of me pulling it in the garage to at least prove the trans moves the car. And theres a pic of the trans(best i could get laying under it) and 2 of the shifter to show its a b&m, and the handle(b&m ripper)
vid
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/?action=view¤t=mustang014.flv
shifter
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang005.jpg)
B&M logo(barly see it)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang006.jpg)
ripper shifter handle
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang008.jpg)
best pic i could get of the trans
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang009.jpg)
sorry for quality vid
sound is great though hee hee
Just picked up a bunch of T5 swap parts. All I need to do now is wait for the tranny to arrive, then just the pedals and console piece. :D
Do you plan on leaving the trans cooler lines intact upon removal? :hick:
My lines were neatly folded up and inserted in a large trash can.
T5 swap is slated for 8/30-8/31. Took the whole weekend off of work :D . Stay tuned!
I ahve to find something to ship the trans in now lol
33 inchs long and strong enough to hold it, think im gonna do what I have heard many guys have done to ship trans.
Buy a cooler
O and quick info for you, the stock tbird shifter will not work with the B&M ripper without makeing bushings for the bolt holes, so you are getting the stock tbird with the ripper short shifter handle(which is AWESOME, ive been driving with it in my dads bird and its SWEET)
Figure that way it looks stock like u want, works with just bolting on, and its a blast to use!
Im gonna try to get the trans out before friday!
Yeah if you could get it out by friday, that'd be great. The swap is planned for 8/30. Thanks a ton man! Did you find out what the bearing retainer is?
i tried to text but it didnt send
its aluminum.
I will push to do so, got to get my dad to cash the M/O to get money for the cooler and shiping!
and find a shipping place OTHER then DHL
I refuse to use them, heard to many bad things and I dont want your trans to get ruined!!
Pics of it will come on later, right now I got a toploader to install, and a 9inch to rip apart for new gears
Sounds good man, keep me posted
I would insure the tranny for $600.00 or more as a just in case.On another note,I didn't know you couldn't use a stock lever with the Ripper shifter (I just got one last night).I'll figure something out for that.Compared to everything else I've done,that's a walk in the park.Keep us posted on the 5 speed progress.I want it done by Sunday evening with no excuses.LOL.
just do like I did, just find a couple of nuts that are big enough to fit snugly in th eshifter handle, but also have a hole that the bolts pass through with no problem, then weldn them in and grind it smooth. I can grab some pics of mine if you like....:D
Yeah I took both the 30th and the 31st off of work. I'd love to have it done Saturday, then spend Sunday getting acquainted with driving it.
put the pedals in before saturday
save you some headache.
that i think is the hardest part... get it out of the way and be good
That's what I did,installed the pedal assembly two weeks before the tranny install to save time on the big day.I'm glad I did.It really wasn't as bad as i thought,but,not any fun either.LOL.
your right it is... and I am doing this same swap in the morning... :flip: I Fuct up on the shift kit I put in, :toilet: :punchballs: so I am swapping to a t5 tomorrow morning.... should be good to go by supper...:flip: :rollin:
the pedals are easy with air tools.... :shakeass:
anyone interested in my B&M shifter and console piece? PM me...
Well I definitely don't want my car to be MIA for long; it is my DD after all. Thats why I took a whole weekend off, was so we'd have plenty of time for everything. We have plenty of air tools too ;) .
Make sure you have all of the nuts and bolts you need beforehand. Running around looking for those really killed me on time.
Oh definitely. Today I picked up the shorter bolts needed for the top of the bellhousing :) .
trans is going out tomorrow
got a plastic crate for it, gonna put a zip tie in the lock so u can tell if anyones tampered with it. Got to pull the ripper handle out and throw it in there, and find some way to pad it.
The stock tbird handle has a big metal and rubber damper on it, and it has big holes in it. If you had spacers for the holes it would be a bolt on deal, just take off the damper. But I dont want to have my buddy here have to mess with that, so to save headaches ill just give him the ripper handle.
Now we're getting close to 5 speed reality.
now if only I could get my 4 speed to be a reality instead of a nightmare id be all set.
ah all because i wanted more strength... headaches...
Thanks a ton man! I really appreciate everything. It won't be forgotten! Sorry to hear you're having troubles with the toploader though.
@vinnie: Oh yeah, you got that right. I couldn't be any more excited right now. If someone told me 3 weeks ago that I'd be putting a 5 speed in by now, I'd laugh at them. Gotta love the fruits of hard labor.
yea toploader is a no go till i get parts, so no driving the car this summer.....
ill text u after its shipped tomorrow!
With the 5 speed,I swear the Sport got louder.Nice,but louder.
Haha that'd be awesome. I'm hoping to grab an O/R H pipe this week to put in during the swap.
ah things are looking better
your money might be helping me get behind the drivers seat of a new car!!
when my dad gets back from signing the books for his job, im swaping shifter handles, and crating it up!
Good deal! :burnout:
Got any pics of the tranny?
as you wish
I gave you the bolts to bolt the trans to the bellhousing (18mm) and the bolts for the shizniter handle(allen head) and the bolt for the speedo gear retainer.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2022.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2026.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2029.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2031.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2027.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/mustang2030.jpg)
note in the last pic u can see i cleaned it up some
and I tried to drain all the fluid, cant guarente I did though
why would you want to sit in the back seat?
Thanks a ton man, that tranny looks nice and cleeeaaan!
Just got off the phone with the machine shop that's doing the work on my 302 block. It's in the tank right now getting cleaned up, at which point he's gonna mic it and see if it'll need any boring or not. The crank hasn't fared too well; it's definitely gonna need to be turned, and there's a possibility that we'll need to find a new crank. I'm really glad I'm getting this T5 swap done ASAP so I can get the AOD sold and get money saved up for getting the engine finished.
dude, learn how to use that camera.... USE THE MACRO setting for close shots....
and King, you wont regret it.. man I should have done this sooner...... now get 500kms on the new clutch before morning and take her to the track....
Oh I know...all the stuff I've been doing to the car has been stuff that dad and I have talked about doing since he first bought the car 6-7 years ago (before it fell into my hands). I remember when he first got it, he kept saying "This thing needs the HO, 5 speed, and some better gears than these 2.73 desert gears." Look at where she is now ;) . I'm really excited to get the new engine together and hooked up to the T5....that's gonna be soooooo awesome.
Vinnie you are right, I noticed a tone change in mine now too... not liking the way mine sounds now, so I am going to have to get some different lers..:hick:
the OR h pipe really makes a tone difference too....:D
Yea,I have an OR X-Pipe,and 40 series Flowmasters.Really nice sound.Loud enough to let people know something is there,and not loud enough to give me a bad headache after 400 miles of driving.
and I have a 5.0 crank sitting in my shed at home.....
I'll get back to you if I need a crank. Is the tranny shipped?
What kind of ATF would you guys recommend?
MerconIV is what I am running..
I know to use that, but I mean Mobil Synthetic, basic brand stuff, Castrol, etc etc.
well what kind of question is that?!?! it is your own personal choice when it comes to something like that.
if money isnt an object (which it isnt if we are telling YOU what to put in it) I would imagine 99% of people would say synthetic. I am running the regular stuff right now because cash is tight right now.
Yeah my dad already has plenty of regular stuff, but I've heard good things about synthetic. Would it be hard to change down the road?
goes out tomorrow morning bright and early
sorry for the delay bro..
No prob man, stuff happens. 3 day shipping would definitely get it here well in time. Even basic shipping *should* be ok but it'd be close. Might wanna ask the people there about shipping options and how long it generally takes.
Don't you just hate being on a schedule for this stuff?I have to work the same way.
Not really a strict schedule, but I have everything ready and/or arriving well on time. And I've already taken off of work for this next weekend too. Anyways...where are pics and vids of Phoenix?
Transmission AND pedals scheduled to be here on Wednesday. All I need now is to grab a pilot bearing and figure out what to do as far as the flywheel, then I think I'm all set. Stay tuned...I am one DETERMINED person right now.
I got my new flywheel from Autozone.I got my friend's discount,plus my "reward" discount,so,$80.00 minus 20%,then from that total,take off another $20.00.Not too bad.Warranty as well.As far as pics go,I'll take a few and show everyone what's up with the Sport.
Oh yeah, check out what I got today!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/T5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/shifter.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/pedals.jpg)
HUGE thanks to daboss for the T5!!! Gonna grab my pilot bearing tomorrow and a set of new pedal pads. Once the steel bearing retainer comes in tomorrow or Friday, everything will be ready to go.
Don't forget to install the little vacuum switch from your auto pedals onto the clutch pedal assembly.You can see the little tab above the brake pedal with the big hole in it.It's for the cruise control.Did you get an aluminum ckutch quadrant?Now's a good time to install one.
Yes I got an aluminum quadrant. Thanks for the info. Dad and I have a whole cruise control setup to put in too (mine broke a while back), so I bet we'll hook that up while we're in there.
cruise control unit is mounted inside the driver side fender.
Yep we know :) . Lookin forward to Sat!
enjoy the pedal setup...its a peach. still one of my favorite cars on here dood. keep the good work up!
The pedals took me about an hour and a half.Not too bad.Not fun,but not as bad as I thought it would be.I didn't remove any of the bracing under the dash.Once I removed the necessary fasteners,I was able to flex the bracing just enough to allow the pedal swap.Removing the column really did make it easier as well.Every extra bit of space under there is sure appreciated.
Just a mini update - I got the pilot bearing, and I got the tail shaft seal replaced. I'm about to head out to have my flywheel recut and I'll be picking it up tomorrow. I'll also be picking up new brake and clutch pedal pads tomorrow. Everything is coming together nicely. I have also confirmed that this tranny has the 7 tooth gear, so my 19 tooth speedo gear that I accidentally got a while back will actually be useful now. So not only will I be going 5 speed, but I'll have an accurate speedo AND cruise control! Just icing on the cake. My steel bearing retainer arrived today as well.
I had to have a 20 tooth with my tires and 3.55 gears.Glad to hear you're almost there.PICS are a must.You know the rules.
Not sure how much time i'll have to take pics in case we need to get the project done somewhat quickly - the transmission in my sister's car just gave out, so yeah...
Come on, there's always time for pics
Click,click,click,click,click,click,click............see how quick that was?That was already 7 pictures.
Hahahaha I knew I could count on you guys to hound me for pics! :D
We're not hounding you,we're "encouraging" you.
I was hounding. LOL
Well the guy that was going to resurface my flywheel told me that it was pretty much FUBAR. I contacted the seller and informed him, not in a mad way or anything. Headed up to Advance Auto to get a new one. He called me up and said he'd be willing to pay for the new flywheel. Can't beat that. I'll have my new flywheel at 4:30 today.
New flywheel......even better !!!!
Yep...but $90 I wasn't expecting to spend, so I won't have enough to get some nice synthetic ATF. Got the console piece in today and cleaned it up some. Should serve well as I look for a mint one. Less than 24 hours till the big day!
glad your happy with the trans.... my mustang sure misses it!! since the toploader cant go until i find the clutch set up!!
You gonna LOVE that shifter and handle man, i hope some day u can drive a T/C with a stock handle, its horrid compared to what I sold you, absolutely HORRID.
ur lucky I like you lol. That trans has fresh gears, seals, everything.... plus short throw and handle, you made out like a friggen bandit
Definitely man, thanks a ton! I still *might* use the stock handle for now, but I'm not sure. I'm definitely going to try both and see which one I like better.
Anyways, only about an hour or so (maybe less) from go time. Can't wait! I'll try to keep you all updated periodically.
can't wait to see an end result vid!
you have a stock handle???
you have to mod it to use it , and trust me I drove my dads bird with the ripper handle, and the stock. The stock one just sits to high and its not comfortable to use.
O and another piece of advice, that I sent you is the stock bird , its a big big and spoogebersome. Get a smaller one and it makes it even better.
you wont regret using that handle i promise you. That handle is great for grabing 2nd when your doing hard pulls. I found that real fast!!
1st to second banging that handle in the turbo coupe at 12psi it was fun! The car didnt like it much though
5th is a little stretch for my little arms but thats the only complaint. And that was on the stock shifter unit, the B&M one has a tighter gear pattern
Oh sweet, guess I'll try the shorter handle first, but the I prefer doesnt seem to fit right on it...but we'll figure it out. Anyways, just stopping in real quick during lunch break for an update. We didnt get a good start till around noon, but with dad working on the interior and my uncle and i working underneath, we're close to having both the tranny and the pedals out. I'll take pics when we get it all out.
awesome!!! get it done!!!
Alright, well as I said, we got a late start, and the main theme of the day was just a bunch of small nagging things that really kept us from going gung ho on it (anybody that's done a project knows how that goes). However, we still made good progress that should set us up well to get the car back on the road tomorrow.
Main points of progress:
- The front seat and steering column are out; just need to take out 2 more bolts to get the pedals out.
- AOD is outta there, new rear main seal and pilot bearing are in, along with the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate.
Anyways, here are the pics I managed to get:
Beginning
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/thebeginning.jpg)
Adios AOD!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/aod.jpg)
Underside of car after AOD removal
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/progress1.jpg)
As the interior sits now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/progress2.jpg)
Underside of car with new flywheel, etc
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/progress3.jpg)
That's what I like to see.
I gotta quick question: Is the boot that goes around the fork opening on the side of the bellhousing critical? I've heard lots of people say that they don't use one. I don't have one, but should I try to grab one tomorrow?
meh...its not critical. i never used one with no ill results. couldnt hurt having it either if you had one on hand.
That's something you can always add later on.It just has one small bolt that holds it on.
my dad never ran one with that trans in the stang
I like it just to keep "whatever" out.
x2 I would pick one up, My cougar was missing that cover I just bought one for $20 shipped off someone on the corral, just for piece of mind.
Yeah I'll probably grab one soon.
ahhh im kicking myself for selling that thing now.....
that trans, with the ripper, and centerforce clutch in my 66 would be kick ass in my lincoln... that was the original plan for it hahaha
O well I think im just gonna build a B/A AOD
Im jelous, im gonna have to take a road trip to NC so you can take me for a spin
Alright, quick update during lunch break. So far, today has been the polar opposite of yesterday. We got started at a decent time and everything has gone rather smooth for the most part. The transmission is securely in the car, with some really nice Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. All that's left is the driveshaft, pedals, starter, and exhaust. As long as everything keeps going as it has so far (keep your fingers crossed), we're en route for completion this evening. Quick pic to keep the hounds at bay:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/progress4.jpg)
@Mason: If the tranny shifts half as good in the car as it did out of the car, it's gonna be a PLEASURE to drive. And I'll definitely take ya for a spin.
i assure you it will, if it was stronger it would have staying in the stang, but since I want to drag race it alot i was afraid to blow it up.
that car slid into gear like nothing as long as you didnt push it hard(try to speed shift and it gets ANGRY)
Car is buttoned up, clutch is adjusted good enough for now, and she's ready for a test drive after dinner. STAY TUNED for impressions and pics tonight!
Oh c'mon !!! Supper can wait.You can eat any time.Input....We need input !!!
Well, just got back from driving all around town. It drives BEAUTIFULLY. Car is just way more responsive. I just need to learn how to drive it! :hick: It was late when we got everything buttoned up so pics of it will have to wait till tomorrow, but here's a quick pic I took earlier:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/progress5.jpg)
I couldn't be happier. All we need to do tomorrow is fine tune the clutch, tighten the H pipe, and add some insulation under the console. Then the car will be getting a good ol' fashioned SCRUB!
EDIT: I also noticed that the infamous "clunk" is gone when I let off the gas or get on it abruptly...I'm wondering if it was the AOD and not the driveshaft like we thought...
Well here here! congrats man!
congrats... now your car will be slower til you learn how to drive it. :hick: LOL.. Im loving my T5 too... I got a set of ET Streets, and an adjustable cable and quadrant this weekend, and I will be putting an AFPR on this week too.
Lets see some new times now. :evilgrin:
I used black trim paint on the shifter boot,It worked good.
I used black leather dye on my shifter boot......that is until I swapped with a brand new one I got off Ebay.It came from the UK.VERY nice,and really affordable.
Yeah I'm pretty sure I just took a step back to low 16 sec 1/4 times for the time being :rollin: . But it's a very fun 16 seconds!
Anyways, thanks for the compliments. As I said, there are a few odds and ends left. I'm just enjoyin it.
edit: PIC TIME!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/finished2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/finished1.jpg)
Wow. Thats just unreal lookin at those two extras. :D Looks SICK. Cant wait for the next round of vids!!!!
It's all driver now,Aod was a handicap maker.
Have fun!!
good job!!! I am so glad you are happy with the trans. At least selling it got me parts for my lincoln and allowed me to finish it....
I still wish I would have kept it for the linc hahaha
Vids are a must!!
What shift did you end up running?
congrats.I enjoyed mine so much I bent a valve.LOL.
looks like a stock stang to me....
You guys have fun, this ole fogy is keeping his AOD...
Honestly I'd be happier than a twister in a trailer park if this thing was a full-manual valvebody. I shift it myself all the time (just holding it in 1st easing it up letting off the gas letting it drop in NOT beating on it just getting more RPMs out of it) honestly. It almost NEVER actually goes 1-2-3 on its own LOL. BUT...but if I want to, I can let it do that. And the footwork aint there either. Moving the handle doesnt bother me at all...I think the pedal action is what would get spoogebersome in things like rush-hour traffic etc.
Been driving the car all day now. Got a couple of vids that I'll have up soon. And yeah, I used the that vinnie sent me for free. I like that it has the H pattern on it; looks nice. I'd like some input from the other guys that have done the T5 swap on this:
After a few mins, the console gets REALLY hot. We cut out some sheet metal to go around the shifter, sealed it with high heat tape, then cut the insulation around it. But it still gets hot. What's the remedy?
you didnt get the lower rubber boot for the swap?
Videos!
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/?action=view¤t=drivingvids001.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/T5%20swap/?action=view¤t=drivingvids003.flv
Please excuse my lackluster driving!
@32V: No I didnt, where can I get one?
Now,don't you feel better?
Oh yeah! Just need to find a lower rubber boot apparently.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-95-Mustang-GT-LX-T-5-Lower-Shifter-Boot-Trim-Ring_W0QQitemZ110190306663QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110190306663&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
EDIT: changed the link to show the one with the metal ring
I have a Mustang piece like that and it didn't fit right.I thought the T-Bird/Cougar "boots" were unique to themselves.
There is of course the rubber boot that bolts to the floor pan.. and two layers of insulation. My console never got hot.
car sounds good.... I gotta get that boot yet too... I thnk you can make a mustang one work... if not I will just steal the one out of my TC...
Anybody know where I can find a Tbird lower boot? Or how to adapt a Mustang one to fit?
You can probably put the Stang boot over the holes for the Bird and mark them then drill new holes in the metal boot ring so it'll bolt up correctly..
well dad already made a metal plate to go around the shifter hole yesterday and sealed it with high heat tape. We have a rubber boot on a shifter handle a guy gave to me, so I'm gonna try putting the boot on there and seeing what happens.
So whens the new video? It'll be alot more fun to spin your tires now too. I had a mazda b2000 with a 5 speed. Even with the whole 80 hp stock motor I could chirp 4th. I'll bet its pretty hard to not spin em on a hard launch now.
Ok guys, well the tires on my 8 holes are old and worn out now, so I'm in need of new ones. I'm also rather tired of the 8 holes and I'm looking for a change. At first, I just wanted a set of snowflakes. Then I looked at a set of Mach 1 rims. After deciding that I couldn't afford a 5 lug swap AND the rims, but wanted a little more change than the snowflakes, I think I found the wheels I want. They ARE Cobra Rs, and I'm fully aware that lots of people have them, but these aren't plain jane Cobra Rs. Take a look:
(http://oewheels.net/oe-m-gcr-4-rt-2fs.jpg)
Ebay link here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-Cobra-R-Wheels-17-x-8-17-x-9-Rims-4-Lug-Fits_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43957QQihZ025QQitemZ380059606667QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
What do you guys think?
Was looking at those also, nice wheels.:burnout: They have them in white also. :D
yeah those are nice, there is a local company up here selling them like hot cakes... I have been planning fo pick up a set for the Coug... just havent had the funds yet...
I like them,a little more to them to make them different than R's.
Would these work for the price?
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=LRS-1007SCC%20%20%20%201&comp=LRS
so you didnt end up using the ripper handle??
that shifter handle looks awful high.
Nah, not the look I want.
And yes, I'm using the ripper handle. It looks tall in the first pic cause of the shadow.
I Really like those! Always have but never knew they were that cheap. Thats about the price of Bullitts.
Deep Dish! These are now my new choice of rims I will never afford... And ther are 10in so that will need some work too.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=LRS-1007SCP%20%20%20%201&comp=LRS
these are the wheels I am thinking about getting for my bird
Konig Incident
(http://www.konigwheels.com/images/404_b.jpg)
I vote these... there just shagy(http://images.latemodelrestoration.com/lrs-1007ra.jpg)
I believe dominator has 10' rims on his TC with no modifications....
@ kingcars-- that's a good choice dude !!
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0185.jpg
Oh dang, I didn't realize those are the wheels you got! We need to meet up again soon, man!
those wheels are awesome!
Really? well sounds good to me. Ill have to check with him on what offset his are and everything. My luck ill finally save the $ and the price will jump or they wont be available or something.
WOW, really, 10 foot rims!!! I need pics of this. :mullet::shakeass:
You asked for it. :hick: :shakeass:
I think they're only 3' though. :wtf: :yuck:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh183/kustomtbird/donk.jpg
you need to jump on this!
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1062971
Yep 18x10 22mm offset on the rears on a stock TC axle with 5lug conversion.
18x9 24mm offset on the front with 94 stang spindles.
The rear fit perfect with the 22mm offset,about 1/16" clearance between the quad shocks and 1/16 on the outer fender lips.
To get better clearance on the outer lip the 1/4s should be rolled a little but i never have 3 people in the back anyways.
Otherwise they don't rub at all.
As for the rims your looking at,nice choice but i think the offset is wrong 15mm on the front seems not enough as factory offset on birds/cougs is 22mm and stang is 24mm.
I guess though if they fit a stock stang they should work.
I wanted those wheels before i did the 5lug swap as they said they would never make them in 4lug but i went with FR500s and am happy as a pig in s##t with them.
As for pics,i have some somewhere but i would have to find them.
Here's some pics i found.
More
the car/rims looks better in person then the pics show... just gotta drop it a bit chris.... ;) I love the stance of mine.... just need nicer rims...
LOL yea that was the old pic before i dropped the front end.
Thought you seen that???????
shiznit, been so long since I've seen the bird I forget how it sits now. LOL
Alrighty, I told the machine shop last week to go ahead and order me the bottom end kit with forged pistons (figure I'm gonna go ahead and do it 100% while I'm in here). Everything should be done next week, ready for me to start assembly. All I gotta do now is grab a cam and a fuel pump. It's getting close, guys!
so which kit is it?
I'm pretty sure it's with Keith Black pistons; aiming for a 9.5-10:1 compression.
gotta link or part number?
Not at the moment; I'll call him up tomorrow and ask.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Sealed+Power/844/L2488F30/10002/-1
There they are. With my heads, they should give me 9.5:1 compression.
those are just pistons. i thought you ordered a "kit"?
good choice on the pistons, though.
Yeah, it's a kit, but the rest of the stuff is just for the block; like cam bearings and stuff. Nothing interesting enough to look up haha.
ah, okay. i thought you ordered crank and rods.......like a 331 or something. :D
Haha nope, maybe down the road. The guy at the shop hooked me up with another stock crank (the old one was past the point of return) and got it resurfaced for me.
That should be a nice setup for it. It's a clean car!
Iirc, Weren't you looking at the speed density cams from comp and crower? Very interested in your choice and how your machinist thinks it will work.
Thanks,
Mike
Yeah, I'm currently looking for a Crower 15511 preferrably; but would also consider a Comp XE264. These choices are mainly based on what other people have said who have used these cams with SD.
Bah! Do the Mass Air. Its one of the only bigger kind of common mod besides 5 lug that you havent done
Not planning to go Mass Air at the moment, sorry.
Excellent choices, you'll be fine with either one.
As far as your search for wheels go take a look at these not a bad price either
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/922169881.html
hes already got new rims
cant wait to see this thing done!!
you gonna need the hp to beat me!! Ordering my trans parts soon, and lets just say, its gonna be far from a stock rebuild and a shift kit. ;)
Well, after a couple of delays, I finally got to pick up all the fresh parts! It was a bit more expensive than I originally planned, but I have a feeling it will be worth it in the long run. Without further ado, here are pics!
Before:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/bottomendsmall.jpg)
After:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork005small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork019small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork010small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork016small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork013small.jpg)
*grins at the .030 engraved on the piston* :evilgrin:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork006small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/blockwork004small.jpg)
cool, man! what all was done to the block?
Very nice!!! :burnout:
Yay! looks awesome. something about a box of new parts like that just gets me all torqued up.....lol
Hot tanked, bored .030 over, new freeze plugs, cam bearings, few other odds and ends. He rounded the connecting rods, ARP bolts, turned/resurfaced the crank, etc; even resurfaced/cleaned my aluminum heads free of charge!
how much did that run ya? (you can PM me, if you want.)
im about to take my block in for the same thing, is why i asked.
PM sent.
Awesome Man!!
Assembly should hopefully start in a few days :)
must be exciting for you...keep us updated man.
Looks like a hella nice block now compared to before. Im gonna have alot of machine work done to my roller block. Bored, stroked, decked, line bore and balance, new freeze plugs, bearings. I really need to start my list. You can help add to it too. lol
Whats up man? Haven't seen you around in a while. Anyways, sounds like a good plan there. What H/C/I do you plan on? 331 or 347?
come on put that bitch together!!
Gotta finish up school first. I'm hoping to be done tomorrow. :)
Im just getting started. Im making my list and starting to buy parts. Im going 347. Its what Ive wanted to do all along, and Im gonna go big or go home. Im making good money so Ive been setting aside money for the Cougar. And my laptops battery shiznit out, and Im on 360 is kinda worthless haha.
Finished paying for the engine work today. Got my heads back too. He cleaned and resurfaced them free of charge!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/headsCleaned003small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/headsCleaned005small.jpg)
look B/A
Did ya get a new oil pan or are you reuseing the stock one?
Reusing the stock one and cleaning it up.
Man I'm getting my car painted but now I want to build a motor after seeing your pictures! Looking good man...your car is without a doubt getting better all the time.
You know what that block needs? A nice, shiney coat of Ford Blue engine paint ;)
I loves me some of that Ford Blue.The dark Ford blue.
I'm just gonna paint the block black. Won't show the dirt and grime as bad, and you really don't see it much anyway. The valve covers will be ford blue though :) .
Woke up early this morning so dad and I could start piecing together the short block. We took our time, checked everything over. Plastiguaged all of the clearances; they were dead on spec. Prepped the pistons, rings, and bearings, and started putting them in. About halfway through, we noticed some of the number markings on the rods weren't facing the right direction, but everything was fitting right so we kept going. Once we got to #5 and #7, however, they wouldn't fit. At first, we thought the rods were installed backwards; the numbers were on the "wrong" side and if we installed them backwards, they fit perfectly. Called up the machine shop guy, and it turns out he had them numbered 1-2-3-4 5-6-7-8 instead of 1-3-5-7 2-4-6-8 (like how dad is used to building SBCs... Chevy guys :p ). Anyways, we took all of the pistons out (except for #1...that one was at least right!) and got them in properly. Other than that mistake on our part, everything went smooth. Here comes the horde of pics!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly001small.jpg)
Dad explaining some things to my friend and I.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly003small.jpg)
Crank is in!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly005small.jpg)
My friend and I getting the hang of installing the piston rings.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly006small.jpg)
2 guys you do NOT wanna see working on your car :hick:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly007small.jpg)
Pistons are in...with "5" and "7" being backwards.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly012small.jpg)
Now they're in properly...gotta love the piston comin way up! <3 compression
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly016small.jpg)
Ok, I just HAD to see how the heads and rockers were gonna look. Couldn't help myself. :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/shortblockassembly019small.jpg)
Really happy with the progress so far. However, we were doing some final cam research since I plan to order it in the next week or two. Turns out there are multiple versions of the XE264. One is for nitrous use, but the other is said to be designed for use with 1.7 rockers and is a great HO replacement cam. Sounds like a perfect glove fit for my combo, check it out:
Comp XE264 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMP-CAMS-264-XTREME-ENERGY-FORD-5-0-302-CAM-35-320-8_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ200279241268QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/camspecs.jpg)
^Sure seems like the perfect fit for my setup.
Anyways, that's it for now. Just gotta do a few odds and ends, then finish saving up for the cam and fuel pump. We plan to FINALLY fix my cruise control tomorrow though.
Awesome work man. You must be as excited as a kid on christmas morning right now! Looks sinister with the heads on it...I expect more youtube videos to be posted once this thing is up and running!!:evilgrin:
You bet! I'm STILL grinning ear to ear. Nice to see everything starting to pay off.
Oh definitely! The heads will stand out even more once the block is painted black :) .
Hehehehe....muahahahaha :evilgrin:
You ready to convert to mass air?
looks great! i forget how tiny the 302 looks on a stand. how exciting its going to be to turn the key for the first time!
SAAAAAWWWEEEEEEEEET!!!!
Haha Mike musta been flippin out at least as much as you, better keep him away from there don't wanna wake up and walk out there to find the stand mysteriously empty :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
Nice air compressor too btw!
Nope, especially since I'm back to the stock cam now. That Comp Cam requires stronger valve springs, and I simply can't afford it. There are much more important things I need that money for.
Thanks for all the compliments, guys! I'm really excited.
So I'm about to get the last few parts needed for the project. But first, a few questions:
1) There are two types of motor mounts at autozone, hydraulic and solid. Which should I get?
2) When getting my fuel pump (walbro 255lph), should I get just the pump itself or a kit? http://www.apeusa.com has both flavors.
i would get the kit because you get the fuel sock and some other stuff. which is better than trying to match up your stock fuel sock or one from a parts store.
Very nice indeed.
Get the "Hydraulic" mounts.Solid will give too much vibration.I personally like it as smooth as possible.It's all about personal taste.
Ok thanks for the info guys :)
The hydraulic probably won't last long with power, mine didn't.
Chuck w's work great with minimal vibration. I think he's out of them though.
X2 on that.... you MIGHT get a year from the hydraulic mounts afte motor is done.... Get some of Chucks.... thats what I need to get this spring.
Chuck's mounts are too expensive for me. So would I just be better off with the solid ones?
Where did you find solid mounts for a '88 tbird?
I was curious about that to.
The insulator is the same as used on '89-? 3.8 Birds, should be readily avaliable... AFIK it's solid(rubber)and the hydraulic mounts were only used on Turbo Coupes to reduce vibration of the half motor...
The 89-? 3.8 Bird/Coug use the same insulator as the '86-'88 5.0 cars, should be no problem to find... AFIK they are solid rubber and do not transfer vibration(I believe the liquid ones were only used on Turbo Coupes)... Had a set in my Bird since '99, but I have a additional limiter bracket to keep the engine torque from twisting the left side more than 1/4"...
http://www.autozone.com/R,4900508/vehicleId,1070903/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,1287/partType,00154/shopping/partProductDetail.htm
There are also hydraulic versions.
As for the comment about the MN12 3.8 Tbird mounts...so do you mean the whole mount works, or just the insulation?
I got new solid mounts. One from napa, one from pep boys. Both ripped while the engine was just sitting in the car for a couple of months. The car was only driven on the street a handful of times, and it was quite literally around the block. I didn't do any neutral revs, or clutch drops or anything. Did squel the tires once or twice.
When I pulled the motor out when the tranny went out, both my rubbers were broke. And I loosened the bolts on the motor mounts, and was very careful when I started jacking it up. I did not tear them using the engine jack.
Interesting... I've got 3 years on stock type mounts with my current setup. I have a torque arm from the transmission bellhousing as well though...
A set of Chuck W mounts is waiting for when they are needed....
go with the chuck mounts. Do it once right and be done with it. I'll be putting his mounts to the test really soon :)
I'm almost tempted to just use the mounts I have because they've been perfect so far. But I don't know. I really don't have the money to spend that much on motor mounts.
Oh you have a good set of mounts? Just use them. The mounts aren't hard to change when they go bad. When you have good used parts just go with it, you can't replace everything with new.
or you could just drop alittle bit more and do it right. Mine were like $60 each for just the rubber. $120 every couple of years, or $200 never again.
heck, re-use them. if they cause you trouble down the road its easy enough to change them out. spend the money then if need be, not now. thats one of those things.
if there not broke, I would use them.
For those wanting solids for the strength, sacrificing the smoothness given by rubber mount's, There is a very good solution I used to use years ago. Posi, M50-15's, top loader 4speed and a comp clutch used to EAT a pair of standard ford mount's by lunch time...
Take an Eye & Eye Turnbuckle like this
http://www.mutualscrew.com/products.php?pid=3917 (http://"mhtml:{2D4C24A8-B5B9-41DC-8648-D8612D56EE5D}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.mutualscrew.com/products.php?pid=3917")
and add in a couple links of chain to each end, one of these chains you bolt to the frame rail, the other to somewhere near the front of the head (On my Torino there was an exposed, unused accessory bolt hole on the front of the head)
Bolt it up then just "Snug" the turnbuckle down finger tight.
A motor only torques one way. forward, reverse is all handled in the tranny, the motor still lift's only on one side and pushes down on the other. (Drivers side lift's I believe) this Torque is what breaks the mount. This turnbuckle will limit the allowable travel the motor can do to less than what can tear the mount. Idling, cruising, daily driving the motor is as smooth as you can get with soft mounts, Under load the Torque brings it up against the turnbuckle and is as strong as any solid mount you can make or buy. I first did this when I had broken my third motor mount and needed a quick fix. Worked so well I put off replacing the mount for about a year, drag racing the car every weekend with a broken (torn) mount. When I went in to change a starter I did the mount's, and replaced the turnbuckle, never broke another mount.
you can do the whole deal for about $10.
The thing about stock mounts is I didn't know they were broke till I replaced them with cw's. The saftey tab holds them from lifting to much, so I never did know it.
mine are broke (pass. side) and need replacing... found that out when I did the Longtubes.... now if I take a right hand corner too hard it tries to bind up my steering on the headers... Not much room there... so I gotta get those next....
Thanks for the info guys. I'll let you all know when I finally decide :hick: .
I looked into it, I only bought one new one, and it was $69... But it was torn. The new car I have has two bad mounts, and pep boys only has one rubber.
I have to disagree with that. 11 hours later I got my mounts in. Subtract that idiot time (no one could give me the right parts or even matching mounts) I worked on them for 8-9 hours. Exhaust was a PITA when your car is on the ground.
Well I haven't decided on the motor mounts yet, but I am looking into some other things.
I've started a 2nd job and money is rolling in quite fast now. I'll have a good bit of money left over for the project. I'm pondering the idea of getting some long tubes and an offroad h pipe. Would a set of 1 5/8 LTs serve me well? What kind of power gains am I looking at? Would they be worth it?
The LTs I have in mind are these...
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Nothing fancy. Opinions/suggestions?
I've always just take the three bolts out, jack up motor 3-4inches and slide bad mount out. The exhaust doesn't need to be touched.
I have to say from having both shortys and now long tube headers on this cougar that I like the LT beter. For me being on my back and wrestling with the hpipe for the shorty is 100xs harder than installing the short h-pipe that the long tube headers use. Plus all the bolt are right there you bearly have to get under the car to put it on.
I have BBK longtubes and BBK hpipe on my car now they fit
OK The driver side header ishiznitting the steering knuckle. This might be because my 408w is wider at the top so maybe with the 302 it will have enough clearence. I ordered a steering shaft from Summit this week I'll have pics of the install soon if your curious of how it looks just in case you run into that problem.
As far as which headers to buy, That depends on you pocket, If it were me I would just buy a set of used headers and h-pipe.
On a street car, I don't feel the long tubes are worth the difference... I run 1515 BBK 1 5/8" shorties with a Hooker off road pipe...
Anyway if you need the cats for inspection, it's a lot easier to swap the cat H pipe back on long enough for inspection vs swapping headers and H pipe...
Hmmm ok...I guess I may just grab a cheap offroad H pipe for my shorties then.
If money is tight thats probably the best route to go, You will want to change later , Something. I think you are noticing that.
personally i love 94/95 mustang shorty headers and H-pipe over the long tubes headers are not worth the pain long tube headers can be.
i have had both and found that long tube don't alwise clear stuff they say will(like auto over stick or linkage of auto ). plus the long tubes like to hang lower than the car so they get smash up more . which cause air restriction .
the 94/95 mustang shorty header have a bigger over the 86to93 made shorty. which means the 94/95 have less air restriction where the H-pipe bolt to over the 86thru 93 one.
long tube are great headers for racing ,where your in the higher RPM range all the time.
for streat;
i would go with shorty because they work best in the lower and mid RPM range like you need on the STREET!
Yeah I think I'll just grab an H pipe to go along with my current shorty headers. Thanks for the info guys.
I caught up on your post and the work to your engine looks great!
You should be well into the 13's soon :evilgrin: Nice pics.
looking good!! your gonna need that motor to keep up with the mark this summer.
I got a job, and sold both my other motors so im dumping close to 1k on some new goodies ;0
I just started a 2nd job and have been making a lotta money lately. I'm tempted to get the cam and springs now, but I think I'll just get an OR H pipe.
You'll need all those goodies to make up for the weight! :)
You want a O/R H pipe? Im picking up one this week with a set of headers and its 2 1/2
And I got mine in my car with gutted cats.
Want one
And im loseing a good bit of weight ;) so you cant use that against me.
Nah, I don't want one with gutted cats. Thanks though.
I know im saying I will sell you the O/R one
Ok well I've finally ordered pretty much everything else that's needed for the project. All I have left to get now are a couple of gaskets and the fuel pump kit, then we're 100% ready to rock; but at least by tomorrow I'll have everything needed to get all the main engine stuff together in preparation for the swap. I hate that there hasn't been much progress in a few weeks, but that's how it goes sometimes. With the big increase in income I've gotten with a 2nd job, I've been tempted to get a cam and valve springs, but I'm undecided. I'll have to see how much I have after I finish gathering all the necessities for the project. I want to get the driveshaft clunk fixed while the engine is out, so I need money for that too.
Been a while since the last update...still getting all the last odds and ends that have popped up and/or been forgotten. Got the lower intake cleaned, got the valve covers I've always wanted, and an offroad H pipe, ARP head bolts, new distributor cap and rotor, and a 255lph Walbro fuel pump. Just gotta get some rocker shims and valve cover bolts now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/VCs004small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/VCs003small.jpg)
It's lookin a bit better than it did when I first brought it home just over a year ago:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/HPIM1154.jpg)
Since I will finally have some time on Saturday, I'm hopin dad and I get pretty much everything bolted on the engine so all that's left is the rocker arm adjustments and getting the EGR bored out.
Looks sweet dude...
Looking good :D Hmm I've seen those valve covers some where before......;)
(http://[IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/T-bird%20engine/DSCN0144.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://[IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/T-bird%20engine/DSCN0143.jpg)[/IMG]
I've always loved those valve covers! Looks like you needed an intake spacer too. Just ordered mine from summit today along with a 65mm EGR.
EDIT: Wait, ANOTHER cool lookin Cobra intake plaque!?!?!?! You gotta let me in on your secrets!!!
The intake will fit with out the spacer. I just run one because I got a brand new FRPP 1/2" spacer for $20 ;)
I got a 3/8" spacer from Trick Flow. There are 2 fittings on the bottom of the intake that dont *quite* clear the valve covers. Even if it does barely clear with all the gaskets on, I'd rather have a little extra space there anyway. Don't wanna be hiding those gorgeous valve covers!
Also, it's worthy to note that I managed to grab a set of 1 5/8 equal length shorty headers for dirt stinkin cheap. Worst case I'll just sell em. Think I should use those or my current stock shorties?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HOK-6128HKR&N=700+400390+300771+4294902386+4294925005+4294908331+4294840126+115&autoview=sku
looking good man!
Any suggestions on the headers? See post 436
If you can make them work, I would use them over stock ho's.
any progress as of late kingcars? I'm itching for some more youtube vids. lol.
Got an update for ya comin right now :D
The engine is FINALLY really starting to come together. Saturday I had really hoped to have the engine mostly together, but a horrible cheap timing chain that didnt fit kept us from making much progress. To try to catch up on the lost progress, Dad and I spent 2 evenings degreeing the cam. We found out it was an earlier model cam (266/266 duration) and set it to 2 degrees retard just to give it a slight bump on the top end without hurting the bottom end much. Then today I cleaned up a few little things, spent a full HOUR prepping all of my brand new ARP head bolts with moly lube and thread sealer, torqued the heads, then installed the spider and pushrods. Pics:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/assembly002small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/assembly003small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/assembly007small.jpg)
^Spent $105 on that dang timing chain...taking pics of it while I can!
I'll end the update with this: I feel it's safe to say that we can finally start counting down the time left in WEEKS now :D .
Looking sharp!
I can only hope mine will look a third as good as that when I get ready to drop it in...
Wow 105 on the chain, which one was it? What cam/head/intake combo you going with?
It's a Cloyes billet 9 keyway set. The first one I got was a Zoom 9 keyway for like $40, but the chain had tons of slack in it (enough to where you could turn 1 gear a little bit without turning the other). I ordered the Cloyes set and it is a much better built set all around. Fits perfectly. As for my H/C/I combo, read the OP, n00b! :flip:
Mod list: GT40Y aluminum heads, stock HO cam, 1.7 rockers, Explorer intake, 9.5:1 comp, bored .030 over, forged pistons, ARP rod & head bolts, 65mm TB
what pushrods are they in the picture? Are the heads new or have they been cut?
sorry for not reading the other 400+ post and 44 pages lol
Stock pushrods, cut heads. Have a shim kit to adjust with tomorrow.
Thats why I have all important info summarized in the OP :) . If you look, I still keep it updated. Just givin ya a hard time, though!
You should measure the pushrod length with two adjustable pushrods and than order the correct length pushrod than you will not need shims. Also you should be using hardened pushrods too. Just my $.02
I'll go back and look at the post thanks
he's not using stud mount rockers
I could not tell in the pic, so I was wondering also about the shims.
They're pedestal mount rockers. I don't think my valve train is nearly extreme enough to require hardened pushrods (still gonna run a stock HO cam and lifters). I got the shims because the heads have been cut, so the pushrods will be just a HAIR too long. That's where the shims come in.
Ok ,that's the way to do it.
Looking good! You should be up and running in no time now. It should be a good runner with those 3.27's and 5spd, not to mention fun!! Now get it in there and post up some vids! :)
Wow, whatta long day it's been. Started off with me doing some final cleaning on the timing chain cover only to realize that it had a hole in it (how did I not realize that a LONG time ago?). We decided to go ahead and try to make some progress...got the oil pump/pickup installed and got ready to prime the engine. Dad hooked up an oil pressure gauge, we got a drill, put about 3 quarts of oil in, and starting priming. Oil pressure went right up to 60 and oil quickly pumped up the lifters and filling the rockers. So far so good; she definitely doesnt have oiling problems.
We stopped priming once all the lifters were good to go, and then focused on adjusting the rockers. Fortunately, none of them needed adjustment so we started turning the engine over to make sure everything was working properly. That's when we noticed a rocker get really loose due to an intake valve that was stuck open. Wonderful.
Dad got a flashlight and we looked in at the intake valve. It was caked in hardened carbon deposits. Decided to look at all the others, and they were the same. Wow. So we took off both heads and cleaned every intake valve. Luckily, the one that got stuck wasn't damaged. We did check the exhaust valves for good measure, but they were all ok.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/finalassembly001small.jpg)
Headed up to the auto parts store, and luckily they had the same exact head gaskets in stock (just to be safe). That's when we really started cracking down and gettin stuff done. I installed the first head that was ready to go, torqued it down, and torqued the rockers as dad cleaned/prepped the other head. We got all of that done, turned the engine over several times and it was working perfectly, so then we buttoned it up. Turned out to be an 8 hour day (3 of which were spent re-prepping the heads). Here's how the engine sits now:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/finalassembly005small.jpg)
Just gotta order a timing chain cover and get the engine painted. Then it's time to get the swap started!
So take some advice from my dad and I: WHENEVER buying used heads, check your stinkin valves!
a bit of good advice i can give you....
throw that cork oilpan gasket in the trash, and get a rubber one with steel structure. i lost a motor due to a cork gasket coming apart, and clogging the pickup screen.
2nd, i thought you had the heads gone through by a machine shop?
3rd, where was the hole in the timing cover, and could it have been epoxied instead of replacing it?
Thanks, I'll grab one when I'm at the auto parts store tomorrow.
Me too...he had them cleaned and cut. Guess he didn't check the valves, idk.
I thought about just using it...the hole isn't in a critical spot (the gasket would seal all around it). But it's a pretty py cover overall and I just can't justify putting all the money I have into the engine, then using that cover with a hole in it.
I would have epoxied and just painted the cover too :) That sucks about the heads. My guy before I told him anything wanted to disassemble, clean, and mag the heads before he did any work. If your valves looked untouched I would think they just got resurfaced and thats it. I think I would have sent them to the machine shop and had them redone at this point and had the springs checked. Next time you need to buy valve cover gaskets get the rubber/steal ones from felpro they last forever and you can reuse them over and over.
Are you dropping the motor and tranny into the car the same time? If you are I highly recommend the summit engine lifting plate for $50. It saved me so much time and went in less than 20 min
Everything else on the heads are in tip-top shape, so no probs there. We've thought about getting that engine plate...probably will grab one.
As for the VC gaskets...the VCs are just hand tight on there (gonna take them off when we drop the engine in) so they're not dead set on there. Thanks for the heads up.
We didnt get to take the engine out Saturday so we just did some final prep on the 306:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306done001small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306done007small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306done008small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306done010small.jpg)
However, we got the green light to use a friend's shop that has a lift. Unfortunately, I had work today so dad had the shop to himself (and is now forever spoiled by using said lift). The engine removal went smoothly, towed the Tbird back home in an enclosed trailer, and now she's home safely. Lots of cleaning and scrubbing will be done over the next 5+ days. I would love to have it ready for transplant this coming weekend, but we'll see what happens. Got a lot of work ahead of me still. But the motivation and anxiousness is taking over. I did grab a couple of quick pics, more to come during the week:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/disassembly001small.jpg)
That's how the front should look when I launch off the line :cool:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/disassembly003small.jpg)
:shakehead Aint stayin this way for much longer!
sweet.!!!!!!!!! youtube would be cool.... id watch it ...obviously...
looking good man! I worked on starting to pull the heads, cam, etc. off my 5.0 HO donor motor and ran into quite a few snags (like broken bolts) so its good to see someone else making good progress. Can't wait to see that motor sitting down in your car!
Sweet
Hey, Get yourself some Dupont Prep Sol and some decent shop rags. It will make cleaning that engine bay wicked easy.
Thanks! Already got a couple of vids on youtube...got a link to the first one in my sig. You can find the other one from there. :)
Ugh yeah...that always sucks. The nice thing is that we had been through the top end of the engine already, so things were pretty easy and most of my accessories are still nice and clean. Should be lookin awesome by the time we're ready to put the 306 in.
Yeah, we got plenty of shop towels to use. I had used some Wesleys Bleche White on the engine bay a while back (look at the top of the firewall and you can see where I used it) so I plan to start with that...should work well for me. Then Tuesday I hope to spray it down with a new coat of gloss white paint...should be a bit easier to wipe down and keep clean.
The wesleys bleach white works good too. Im just not sure how appropriate it is for paint prep. A buddy of mine used to use it on his truck once a year to clean it. I had great results cleaning with the prep sol followed by scuffing everything with scotch bright and hosing it off with the air and then a quick wipe down with the prep sol again.
It'll remove paint where it's thin, but that doesnt bother me since I'm repainting it anyway. Where can I get that prep sol stuff?
I picked mine up at a local CarQuest auto parts store. Any place that carries Dupont paint products should have it. I went with that because it's a great de-greaser and leaves no residue behind. As long as you scuff good and the paint is clean befor you spra you should be fine. You could always spray in some adhesion promoter. It's just the engine bay so no need to go nuts, you just dont want the paint to flake off. That would suck.
Well my dad has some final clean stuff that we normally rub on before painting...guess i'll use some of that.
Alright, so I spent about 6.5 hours today degreasing the engine. I'm not gonna go nuts cleaning all the wires/hoses and stuff (only briefly went over the main ones) but I'm extremely happy with how it came out.
Before:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/disassembly003small.jpg)
After:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/degreasing004small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/degreasing005small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/degreasing007small.jpg)
I also cleaned/painted these while I had them out:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/degreasing001small.jpg)
Tomorrow, my uncle and I will get it painted up and ready to go, so expect more pics then. It's gettin there!
Looking good, now drop that motor in already :burnout:
This may have already been mentioned but are you painting your engine bay black or back to the white?
Engine bay is gonna stay white :) .
@20ann: Just gotta paint the engine bay tomorrow, then get all the accessories cleaned up and prepped on the 306, and she'll be ready!
So are you going to come help with mine if I ever get my new motor built? You fit better:hick: LOL, Im just messing with you. Looks good. I would go over the K member real quick though. Unless you have some plans we dont know about....
My uncle came by today and helped me get the engine bay painted. Check it out!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint011small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint012small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint013small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint014small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint015small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint016small.jpg)
Unfortunately, my batteries died before I got the pic of my favorite touches, like keeping the factory stickers on the front rad support, along with a factory-written permanent marker that says "#174 4-28-88" (which I consider the car's bday...yes I'm THAT sick). We also kept the factory fender labels. But anyways, the engine bay has NEVER looked this good since we've had it. I can't wait to see how the 306 looks sittin in there!
sweet, looks nice man
It would look cool if you painted the grill white too! Maybe the tbird in the middle black. Just a thought.
Why stop painting so high up? That's only half the engine bay...the easy half!
...it's easy to waste a weekend just painting the engine bay. I painted the lower side of mine but have yet to touch the top...not that black matters much. The fresh paint looks good.
You know, I never thought about this until I ran into a wall. 19lb injectors may not be enough for that motor. With my gt40p headed/HO cammed engine, I'm completely out of fuel injector (near 100% DC) in the 4k rpm range, far from where I want the engine to run up to (5500). You may as well go 24lb before you finish it up. This is with a new fuel pump and 39psi fuel pressure at no vacuum.
The injectors will be near their limit, I should be ok from what I've heard. I researched that early in the project. Also remember that I'm running Speed Density, so swapping injectors would require me to swap to MAF also. As for the engine bay...for starters, it's gonna be raining all week from here on out so we only had 2 days to do it, and the car will still be a daily driver for quite a while. It's not gonna be a show car, so I'm not too worried about that.
what do ya think?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginebaypaint011small.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1196ja0.jpg) :hick:
Here's roughly what your's would look like painted:
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/vehicle%20pics/1988%20Thunderbird/bodycolorgrill.jpg)
I just took a wide razor knife, "shaved" the chrome plating off, sanded with a medium grit, and rattle-canned it. The bugs and whatnot weren't part of my final design though lol :hick:
I like that
niiiiiiiiice
personally,,, I don't like the blue birdie on front. But the engine bay looks good !!!
can't wait to see the motor sittin in there...........
Blue Bird..................Noooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!
yeah I like what fordtruck posted better.
Haha, I skipped to this page and was like "What the hell are you guys talkin about...there's no blue bird on my car!" But meh, for now I'm just gonna keep the grille as-is. I do want to keep some of the car's original personality. I may change my mind later, but we'll see.
You know I actually like it the way it is. Too many people switch to the turbocoupe nose that its kinda getting worn out. I like the way you have your car looking, pretty sharp if you ask me.
Thanks :) . I can agree about the TC nose too. It hasnt been a fav thing of mine since I got into these cars. Although it's grown on me, I still prefer my grille.
Yea man DONT LET EM GET ALL UP IN YA GRILLE.
You know I wish I had the ability to data log. I bet my car has the same problem if not worse as I have a bigger cam. If you go to 24s before I do let me know what the duty cycle ends up being. I'm just currious. I'll get that C&L MAF and 24lbr injectors soon, or when I have the spare cash :mullet:
kingcars the engine bay looks great. You know that if you need to replace the stickers/decals under the hood mustangsunlimited.com has 'em. That's what I used and they appear to be the same quality as the stock Ford ones.
if you have some free time, you could hide the wiring harness to clean up the engine bay even more!
http://www.hotrod-hell.net/wires/wires.html
Looks great! You've made a lot of progress and it shows. :D
I haven't been here awhile and now feel like a slug with my junk:barf: .
Well after not really driving the Tbird since early February thanks to a blown lower intake gasket and this project really drawing near, I just decided to get the project finished already. I've put in some serious hours on it this week (20-25 hours easily) and hope to have the engine in tomorrow and the tranny/exhaust in on Sunday.
It's a lot easier to install the engine and tranny as a unit.Stab it all right in there at once.
Really? Even with the nose on? We have use of a lift for when we go to put the tranny/driveshaft/exhaust in.
When I installed the engine with the AOD,(larger than the 5 speed),we lifted the assembly,and as i said,stabbed it all right in with the nose on the car.Either way,whatever is good for you is good for me.I thought I'd just try to help a little and save some time for you.So,how long until you get to actually take it for a test drive?Are you using new exhaust or what you already had?
Well I plan/hope to be driving it all over the place by the end of the weekend (maybe earlier if we stab it all in at once hehe). It's sad, actually - the past 2 nights I've had dreams about driving it around and taking it down the track. Yes...my sanity is THAT far gone. :hick:
As for exhaust, everything is the same as before except that I got a 2.5in OR H pipe instead of the old 2.25in H pipe with 4 cats. Can't wait to hear it without cats!
After installing my 5 speed,all else staying the same,the car seemed louder.
Yeah it did seem a little louder to me also. But I also bet that the 4 cats were holding back a lot of sound. I'll find out soon enough. Oh, and I'll have some progress pics for everyone tonight so you can see what I've been busting ass on the past few days.
I'd load it all in at one time, but thats how I usually do it.
It should sound similar to my cougar as it did not have cats :evilgrin:
You love it! It will be a lot louder without the cats. I did notice a little power from it. Nothing huge. It seems to shift quicker now. As in it will go into 3rd before it is needed even under a slight load. It does seem to hold 1st better when I get on it. Could all be in my head too. Sounds SO much better though.
install engine and tranny together. end of discussion.
Thanks for the tips, guys. Anyways, once the engine bay got painted on Tuesday, I spent the rest of the week getting the engine ready for battle. Here she is:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginefinished004small.jpg)
is that a used water pump?
Yes, we got it brand new when we did the HO conversion so it's still in good shape.
lol a little spray of alum paint and your little secret would have been safe ...
Meh I dont care...it's not gonna be a show car :)
It's going to look great done!
Better to have a known good used pump than a new one that has yet to be ran. My new Motorcraft one went out less than 1,000 miles on the new motor. My Autozone replacement has been going great since.
Getting a little anxious? looking good.
Oh, I'd be wanting in the car right that second. I don't know how you hold back!
Looks awesome !!!!...........nicely done.
I got the engine in mine with the hood on. It can be done :D
Same here, taller, wider motor and longtube headers :) Saved tons of work under the car. I think I took hood off for more light and room to work.
Update time...
Friday night, dad felt like he was catching the flu, and unfortunately it came on pretty bad yesterday, so we had to postpone the engine install and planned to do it today. I had to go to work at 10am, and dad still wasn't feeling 100% so it was pretty frustrating for the both of us after all the long hours put into it getting it ready for this weekend. So I went to work, and miraculously got out of work on time (which NEVER happens). I got home, saw the Tbird sitting in the same spot on the driveway, figured dad still wasnt feeling good. Dad was standing right at the side door with a mischievous look on his face, went over to the Tbird and popped the hood. To my complete surprise, this is what was sitting under the hood:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/engineinstalled003small.jpg)
Needless to say, I'm extremely pumped. I did end up treating dad to a little dinner...it's the least I could do with my new found poorness (gotta love the nickel and dime stuff at the end of the project...and by nickel and dime, i mean $50 and $100 bills). Couldn't ask for more :) . Dad did take a couple of pics when he first got it dropped in, and I took some too so here they are:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/engineinstallation2small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/engineinstallationsmall.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/engineinstalled001small.jpg)
All that's left to do now is the driveshaft, radiator, battery, and a few other small odds and ends. Then we'll drive it up to the shop and get the new fuel pump in. Should only be maybe an evening or two away from completion now, stay tuned!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Wow, looks awesome sittin oin the car, If it was me, I would be so anxious to drive it it would literally drive me nuts.
Oh trust me, that's pretty much what it's like right now. I feel my sanity slipping further away by the second...
That's how I felt.LOL.Glad to se you're almost there.I'm proud for you.
Looks excellent dood. It's a great feeling "getting there". make sure you vid. the first crank over ;0)
Wooo!
LOOOKIN GOOD !!!...... can't wait to see/hear her run
congrats man. Its looking VERY good.
I'm willing to bet you are pretty excited.
looks great man. You are my competition in the racing section, LOL. looks like I gotta step up my game, you should be well in the mid 13's now. I should be able to pull off a high 13 this spring once I get the tranny swapped. (though I have taken a few buddies with low 13 cars, for rips lately and they say mine is faster.. LOL)
Congrats man, cant wait to hear a vid of it, and see some timeslips.
loooks bad A$$!!!!
What shoulda been the 1988 Thunderbird SVT Cobra :rollin: U betta rrrrrooooast emmmm
Thanks for all the compliments :) . It is very exciting.
Haha well, my E/Ts will probably be driver-limited, so I'm figuring that I'll run high 13s till I get better (I lost ~3 tenths in the 1/8th after swapping to the T5...but idk, maybe I've gotten better. We'll see). We'll definitely have close setups though!
Bscly!
I hope everything fires off perfect - I don't wish anyone to have the problems I had with my first engine...this thread seems like a similar progression on those events only to find out that the engine block was cracked. That thing's still sitting in the garage without being able to find where all that water was coming from...
CHECK EVERYTHING before you fire it off. I recommend making 100% sure you have the right pushrod length, pressure checking the cooling system, priming the fuel system to check for leaking/stuck fuel injectors/orings, then all the other usual things like you know...having oil/oil pressure, having the distributor in right, having the spark plugs in the HO firing order, nothing touching the headers, all power wires bolted down tight, and so on. If I had checked my cooling system pressure up to 20psi (was fine up to around 14-15) when the motor was new, I would have found that water was escaping and prevented a year long nightmare.
...and make sure the oxygen sensor harness connectors are plugged into the right sides ;)
I hope to hear 100% success and 50-100 miles put onto this thing quickly. Myself, I'm getting some Borla XS lers installed tomorrow :D Flowmaster (3 chamber at that) drone is the worst. It's nice when things run right and you can focus on other things.
I would throw an extra $20 at the brand new motor for a rebuilt motor, but thats just me. I see it sort of like using an old oil pump after losing oil pressure. I know its really not a big deal, but I think the last thing you want to do is a water pump once you get it running.
Eh, water pump's quick and easy ;) Then again, so are heads after doing it a few weekends in a row. Of course, this only counts on a new/clean motor. Get some grime and rust on there and it becomes miserable.
I'd still trust a previously running low mileage water pump over a new or remanufacturered one though. I just have bad luck with new parts.
Well I know my water pump is fine, unless a few days of not being used messed it up :P . As for the block, it had lots of TLC at the machine shop so I'm confident it's ok. The injectors and o-rings are tried and true as well (the whole fuel system is, actually...won't have the new fuel pump in for a couple more days). The oil system was primed once already before we dropped the motor in and it worked perfectly, and it'll be primed again before the first start. We've already run every check possible so far (the heads were barely shaved and the rockers tightened down within spec). This is far from just a thrown together engine; we've taken our time :) . Unfortunately, the car still isnt QUITE ready to fire, but there's no reason to suspect that it won't be running by tomorrow. If dad was feelin ok, it'd be running already (he's quite frustrated!), but since I was working mostly by myself today, progress was pretty slow. I still got a good bit done; 99.9% of the under the hood stuff is done:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/enginedone002small.jpg)
Sorry for the py nighttime pic; it was dark when I finished up. I had to try several different belt lengths since I removed the air pump; for those who would like to know, 86.5in is the size needed.
Looks awesome!!!! Hope to hear some good news tomorra!!! :D
fire that BEOTCH up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey I just read what I wrote, that wasn't supposed to sound so mean...
Good luck wit it, and we will need pics.
SHE RUNS SHE RUNS SHE RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNS!!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_TbirdRunning.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=TbirdRunning.flv)
There's a lot of adjusting still left to be done...but wow.....wow. I've driven it about 40 miles so far, dad "accidentally" took it up to 6k in first gear, and I haven't seen a drop of fluid come out of it. Also my oil pressure guage is in the middle at minimum...on the highway, it was just under max :D . And dont worry, there will be more vids coming over the next couple of weeks; that's just a teaser vid for now. Thanks to everybody who has helped on this project. It's so awesome! Now it's time for smiley spam...
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Congrats!
Oh...hell...yes. I think I will go to bed now and have wet dreams about your car. Sounds tough man!!!! get some action vids for us ASAP! lol.
cool dude congrats!
wow... I CANT WAIT TO F@#@ING RIDE IN THAT BIRD!!!! Dude I am very happy that you are done. Enjoy!
Well it's not 100% done yet...still gotta swap out the fuel pump and get some fine tuning done...but at least I can drive it now!
I bet that feels goooooooood!
Here's a vid I just took a few minutes ago...I had the windows down and it was raining, so there's a lot of road noise interfering with the awesome exhaust note, but just crank up your sound some and enjoy! Hopefully when it's dry I'll get some WOT vids :D .
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_306driving.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=306driving.flv)
Sounds really good!
You need to break in like your goin to run it. open it up a bit here and there! I bet it sounds really good at 6000rpm.
yea, you definitely dont want to "baby it". need to work on your shifting, too. :D
Haha well it was raining and the roads were wet...don't worry, dad and I fixed the idle issue (it was a bad TPS) and took it out for a spin while the roads were much dryer...stomped it in first gear and she went through the rpm band fine until she hit 4k and it was like she shot out of a cannon and the rear tires broke loose! It was insane...3k in 2nd gear feels like getting rear ended by a truck. And to think it's still running on a stock fuel pump at the moment...
Just wondering but have you checked for codes yet? I'm currious if the 19lb injectors are handeling the increased flow ok ;)
If you have any questions on getting it to run right on SD let me know. I had my combo running on SD before I went to MAF.
Sounds great BTW :D
How it sound at 6000, Just want to know?
Sounded great at 6k haha. As for the injectors, I'm sure they're fine...there are plenty of guys that have ran combos like mine with 19s. No computer related problems so far; she idles great and runs great.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!:burnout:
You got it now enjoy!!, You worked for it. Tell your dad keep out of it now too.Lol
No way!!! I have way to much time invested in it!!! Legally it's still my car......Thanks Son for all the improvements you have made on the TBird. You can have my T/A as I'm taking the TBird back!!!! :shakeass: :rollin:
This is me :burnout:
This is Anthony :toilet:
:flame:
LOL
:disappoin Yeah my dad has been smokin stuff again!
I definitely plan on enjoying it...it's a blast. I did just take some pics of the engine compartment as it sits now; not COMPLETELY finished, but close enough. First pic is of the old engine bay when it was at it's CLEANEST; 2nd pic is of my engine bay now, needing a good cleaning:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/newtbirdpics007fsmall.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/finalenginebay009small.jpg)
A couple more for good measure...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/finalenginebay010small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/finalenginebay012small.jpg)
The only thing I've been smoking is dirt, dust and fumes from your car!!
LOL :beatyoass:
Bubba love your attitude , Have the kid show a movie of you burning the bird!, you know putting it through the paces.
Can't wait to bring the turbo bird down there so we can show em how Ford does things at the track! :evilgrin:
Had one of those too. It REALLY becomes a problem with an electronic automatic that relies on the tps. I won't go back to a stick though for the usage I put on cars. I just now regret not going with a Dart block and forged crank as it would have cost the same in the end as having to buildup two blocks.
Yeah once we put the old TPS back in, she idled PERFECTLY at 800rpm. The car hasn't ever idled this good before...I love it.
It's probably ~625rpm. Mine reads like 750 but the EEC shows 625 and that's the target when warm. At least this is the A9P (automatic) EEC. I have a much smoother idle in drive than in park...I swear something's not right. Then again, it probably shouldn't idle as smooth as the SO cam.
Edit:
I will add that this is only if the idle is "adjusted" correctly. It actually SHOULDN'T be able to run with the IAC disconnected as far as I know, but just barely fail. There's a proper technique for this, not the garage mechanic way that is passed around and that I typically use myself. Also, mine only gets slightly "rough" when in closed loop when the o2's are switching. At 800 rpm's, it's smooth. Rev's smooth. Idles at 625 rougher than I'd like...I can feel the motor which is too much in my opinion but I also don't want to go back to hydraulic motor mounts.
My old engine had a leak somewhere from the moment we did the HO conversion...always idled at 1000-1100 rpm with the 5 speed (and did so with the AOD in Park or Neutral). Now I can pull up to a light and she'll drop right to 800.
Yeah, leaks aren't fun but also very easy to find. It's still likely much lower than 800 actual rpm's. The gauges are little better than an "idiot light", they are off so much. Either way, this doesn't matter. It idles low and correctly, that's one piece of good news for a new build.
congrats man, she sounds great.
Dont worry about what the others are saying too much about the fuel pump... I have proven that the stock 302 SO pump will handle a built 5.0L. (as long as it is in good shape and working properly...) when I had my car on the dyno it was running pig rich through the entire RPM band. I put down 200hp and 244torque to the wheels, through a weak AOD, stock stang headers, and WAY too much fuel.
I am hoping to crack the 250hp to the wheels this year on the dyno... Cant wait to see what your bird runs at the track now..
PS I still have the stock pump in my tank, though I DO want to upgrade it SOON for peace of mind... that and I have a little somethng I am working on for the Cougars motor this year.... :evilgrin:
The stock Standard Output pump is good for a max of ~240hp at the crank and that's pushing it. Sure there are other things involved like where at in the rpm band but that's like +/- 5% of the above figure. Of course, this is naturally aspirated.
My stock pump, with its old age on top of that, was giving me noticeable problems at 3500 rpm's on this motor. I didn't have a wideband at the time. I had to take it easy on it until I got the 255lph. Now it runs better all around and I'm having traction problems with 225R60/16's in the 30-40mph range when you normally would get on it to pass a slower person merging onto the highway. Then again, it drops into 1st gear at WOT until around 50mph so the gearing may have had some to do with it. 2.84 1st gear with 2.73's is handy with its 15mph range gain over 3.73's (from 41mph to 56mph it can stay in 1st rather than shift into the 1.55 ratio second, having 33% more torque multiplication in the speed range). All with a 5500rpm shifting "redline" for the torque converter I wouldn't want at 6000.
Well I am above that now and no issues. But as I said, I am swapping mine soon for piece of mind.
You will be fine for now untill you can afford to upgrade. hell I have been driving around and not gently either, for a year with no issues from fuel starvation... quite the opposite actually... on teh dyno I was running WAY rich the entire rpm band. and it was smooth too, not an erratic fuel line like the opperater expected.:D
here are my dyno charts:
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb170/1WLDBRD/88%20XR7%20Cougar/dynosheet2.jpg)
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb170/1WLDBRD/88%20XR7%20Cougar/dynosheet1.jpg)
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb170/1WLDBRD/88%20XR7%20Cougar/dynosheet.jpg)
this was before adding some other upgrades and through the AOD.
Nice. I have the fuel pump already, just gonna wait till we have a chance to bring it to a friend's shop that has a lift.
If you have not already, that would be a great time to toss in a new filter....
You sure it wasn't ever swapped in its lifetime? Then again, not all pumps would pump "exactly" as rated either. Either way, anyone making stock HO power or more should install a new fuel pump. Last thing we need is someone thinking they can get by with the stocker and leaning their motor out till damage because they read somewhere that the stock works fine.
Of course, damage is unlikely NA. It doesn't take much before you feal/hear lack of fuel.
Just trying to be the other side of the argument for the people who read one thread and then plan their own modifications. Lack of research can lead to lack of correct information.
great job Anthony !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I"m hoping to get started on mine in the next couple months.
Got a couple of proper vids for you all, finally. First one is of the awesome idle/rev, and the 2nd is me taking it through the gears. The 3rd video is a blooper I guess...you'll see. Hope you all like it!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_idleandrev.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=idleandrev.flv)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_WOT.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=WOT.flv)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_missed3rd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=missed3rd.flv)
Whoopsie! Missed 3rd huh? Car sounds great!
dude, you need my bracket... that way you get a good view like in my videos.
and Seek, I agree with you. anyone that has swapped in the HO should definatly swap the fuel pump at the same time, or soon after.
I ran my HO with the stock fuel pump for 2 years...even ran that pretty impressive 14.6 with it. Though I have a feeling it's not gonna fully handle my 306 for too long. Oh well, my new Walbro pump will take care of that!
You really don't need a lift for the fuel pump. Doing the fuel pump on ramps in the driveway isn't hard, use a jumper to pump the fuel tank dry with the old pump and than its just 2 strap bolts and the little bolt on the filler.
Looking good my only complaint is to Stop babying that shifter and throw that bitch in gear its not going to break ;) Your 1-2 should be fast and going up to 3rd should just be straight up, don't try and guide it let the shifter find the gear for you thats why they are made to center over third gear, and 3-4 should be very quick you just pulling it straight back...
I expect to see better shifts next video keep practicing ;)
I backed onto the ramps,used my two ton floor jack with a piece of plywood on it to balance the tank,and dropped the tank just enough to get to the pump.About a 20 minute process.
WERD! you'll be lucky to get better than a 14.6 with that shifting.
I haven't driven the car in 2 months, gimme a break! :hick:
The point of the videos weren't to show how fast I could shift...I surely didn't shift as fast as I can. Maybe I'll whip one up tomorrow and it'll still probably suck. It's not a spongy stock clutch either...it's pretty stiff. I do need to get used to lettin her rev up to a little over 5k...I'm too used to getting away with short shifting the stock HO; I could get away with it since the meat of the power band was lower. With the 306, she loooooves 3000-5500ish.
LOL, just messing around with you. My old 306 came alive at 3500 too, really cool feeling when you hit that power band. So now that your all done whats next after the fuel pump?
Unfortunately his shifting ability runs in the family, he gets it from his uncle... 2 click Rick. LOL
In all honesty, I have gotten on the car more then he has. This is his first engine build, he has spent a lot of money and he is a very responsible young man.
See, if Dad breaks it, Dad pays. If he breaks it, Dad still pays!!! LOL
As far as the lift, that is more for me then him!!! LOL
I'm getting too old for this laying on the ground stuff, after 30+ yrs it gets old!!!
Driveshaft (aluminum maybe?), then gonna work on paint/body, suspension, and brakes over the next year or two. Well, after we tweak and tune the 306 and put it through its paces at the track and dyno :D .
Ain't that bad if you let the pump suck the tank dry first, only weighs maybe 15lbs empty... I haven't done one in a while but I do get senior citizens discounts...
looks/sounds very good man. Keep the vids coming.
Actually I was impressed by his shifting. All too often I see some young punk (one of my sons to point the finger) jump into a new rig and start slamming on it like they knew everything and the car was unbreakable. Just to have it end up sitting in the driveway for the next month waiting for a new clutch, or driveline, or U-joint, or wrapped around a tree or another car.
To see him taking it easy on it, learning it, getting the feel for the new power.. I’m impressed.
GITcho fuel pump in there noooob!!!!! :D:P
Well it's nice to see someone appreciating my approach to the responsibility of driving a quick car. Lots of people just want to jump straight from a 17 sec honda to a 12 second Mustang and go romping all over the place; I just don't think it works [well] like that.
I think it's the title of the thread than, I was looking forward to seeing the bird rip through 1st through 3rd...
Bottom line break in that motor and get some track videos up!
atleast it wasnt in the middle of a race!
This is a good point you have.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_0to80run.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=0to80run.flv)
Here's a much better WOT vid now that I'm re-acquainted with the car :) . My sis was filming. I had to do this twice cause the first time we went to do it, the batteries in the camera died...which is a shame cause I had a great launch. The one in this vid is a little boggy...but at least the shifting is decent.
nice vid!:D
Sweetness !!! It's a great feeling isn't it?
Yeah it's REALLY fun now that I'm back to being comfortable with it. With a good launch and holding out 1st and 2nd a little more, I know I can get my 0-60 into the high 5s :D .
nice, I don't think I could convince any of my family to ride with me on a spirited drive like that.
Haha yeah...my family is used to riding with dad in the Chevelle so random bursts are normal to us :hick:
not bad man. I keep forgetting your speedos only go to 85 down there... I was gonna say, MAN that thing will bury it way faster then mine, but I have 35 more MPH to go on my speedo... LOL.
Is yours in km or mph?
Canada is KPH and they didn't have the py 85Mph ruling like we did back then.
No, the bogged launch was definitely on me. As I said, the first run I went to do right as the camera's batteries died, I had an AWESOME launch.
Ah ok :D
thats right, ours go up to 120MPH....:D:evilgrin:
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb170/1WLDBRD/88%20XR7%20Cougar/DSC02954.jpg)
Nice! I like the blue painted plate too. Oh and....I neeeeeed a 140 speedo :D .
Thanks, it actually is a chameleon paint that goes from red-> purple-> blue, depending on the angle you are at...
Set my Tbird up for a date with the dyno: May 8th, 3PM EST. Stay tuned :) .
We're having another dyno day here in a month or so.I've got to get the Sport tuned and clean for that day.Maybe a new clutch as well.Good luck with yours,I hope you see the numbers you want.How much do you think the engine is putting out at the wheels now?
have someone video tape it.... I watch mine over and over. that was the first time my cougar had ever reved to the limiter... scared me since I JUST converted to the HO topend, with an Ecam. I was affraid she was gonna let go. LOL:rollin:
Yeah def. make a video of your dyno run. That should be pretty cool.
250 is the goal, and is right around what others with the same combo are getting. Video footage is mandatory :) .
Took the Tbird to its first car show of the season...got quite a few compliments on it, had a few ask me stuff about it also. Turned out to be really fun. Grabbed a couple of mediocre pics while I was there:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/carshow306001small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/carshow306004small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/carshow306005small.jpg)
A pic that a friend took as I was leaving:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/tbirdpullinout.jpg)
Also been working on that pesky driver mod...vid(s) may be coming soon
Nice !! I hope to attend a few local shows and get-togethers this year.I still have a lot to do before that can happen,though.
Looking good man. Those wheels were a nice choice with your white paint. Now I'm ready for some more vids.
Ha well, after my 0-80 vid I realized how rusty I was at the 5 speed...have done LOTS of practicing since then; think I've got my shifts faster than they ever were before. According to an unorthodox/possibly inaccurately timed 0-60 run last night, I may have knocked it down into the low 6s and MAYBE high 5s if I'm lucky. Need to get it on video so I can know for sure...but it definitely aint as awfully slow as the last video.
Ugh, got some bad news...on the way home tonight, i noticed a weird feeling in the car. The clutch pedal throw was sometimes not smooth (I can feel very slight "notchy-ness" in it) like normal and now she vibrates at mid/high rpm (regardless of throttle input or speed). I think the flywheel and/or clutch are out of balance or something....*sigh* :( . Gonna look into it more tomorrow and see what dad thinks. I do know one thing - this driveshaft is getting the boot immediately; I'm tired of it.
Well at least it didnt break on you, whatever is causing it. Is there any noise to it? Hopefully its simple and cheap like the cable, which is not allowing the clutch to engage properly (I have no idea if that is even possible, just random thoughts), but it could be anything. What driveshaft is in it? I would say find an aluminum one from an Aerostar with WELDED ends and get it cut to length.
I really like what you have done. Nothing crazy with the build, all tasteful, and very well planned. Inspiring to me to say the least. Most was done on a budget with I can respect.
Check your U joints first King....
Mine viberates like a B***H now, but that is becasue of a blown tird gear and the rest are getting ready to go... thankfully the tranny is being swapped this weekend for a freshly rebuilt one, with 0 miles on it. cant wait to actually have a smoothshifting tranny and third gear. LOL
Yeah the tranny is fine; the driveshaft's rear joint is what has been an issue, but nothing major. As for the recent issue, dad's thinkin it's the clutch or pressure plate. Either way, the tranny and assembly is gonna have to come out. I was planning a "surprise" trip to the track on Thursday night, but that aint happenin. Probably would've broken there if I didn't break it yesterday anyway haha. I was finally getting my 0-60s into the very low 6s/high 5s yesterday too :( .
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_0to60.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=0to60.flv)
Top of 2nd gear = 60mph. Figured I'd let you all see how the driver mod project has been going. Sorry about the music...forgot to turn it off. Had my Aerosmith CD in.
Tbird is going up on a lift later today to get the vibration fixed. Gotta get it ready for dyno tune and track runs on Friday :D . Gonna put a tank of 93 Octane in as well.
What's causing the vibration?Let me know.I'm looking for one.I'm thinking it's the differential on the Sport.I have a spare to install if need be.
Well the speed related vibration has always been my driveshaft. The rpm related one is new, and we think it's the clutch/pressure plate. While we didn't see anything physically wrong with either of them when we took it apart tonight, we started the car up without them and the vibration was gone. With that said, I have a brand new clutch and pressure plate on the way and the driveshaft is going to a shop tomorrow to be balanced and fixed. So on Wednesday, I hope to have a Tbird sans abnormal vibration.
Yeah nothing better than having just....a Tbird, without extra stuff you dont need. :)
I hope it fixes it for you man... Viberations are irritating...
I gotta pull my tranny again to and change the clutch
Not looking forward to it but I gotta do it. Killed mine at the track LOL
Do you have an aluminum one? If not you can make them up on the cheap and they are worth it.
No aluminum driveshaft yet, just got my current one fixed. About to go pick it up from the shop now :) . It was funny; dad said the moment he brought the driveshaft in, the guy was like "Let me guess... 5.0 Mustang with a high speed vibration." Guess it's a pretty common problem :hick:
Well I got some good news and some bad news. The good news is that the driveshaft work I had done really smoothed out the car at 70+ mph. Much better now. The bad news is that the rpm vibration is still lingering; there are only really 2 main suspects left though: input shaft bearing or balancer. However, the new clutch is a good bit softer so it's nicer to drive around. But at least for now the car is much more drivable...if we can ever figure out this stinkin rpm vibration, she'll be runnin smoooooth.
I do have a question though...when we put the engine together, we got a brand new oil pressure sending unit. The first few times I drove it after the engine swap, the pressure guage always read really high. Then after a few drives, it started reading about dead in the middle. Then a few weeks later, it read low. Now it just plummets to the bottom and tells me I have no oil pressure...if that were true, the car woulda blown up a long time ago so I know its a lying POS just like it was with the old engine (always used to read low). Anybody else have faulty oil pressure guages?
Put a gauge where the the sender is to really read what you have.
I wonder if that is where some of my vibration comes from.
You tried indexing your driveshaft already I guess.. is the vibration rpm or speed related? You say 70+ mph but than say rpm. If its rpm I would think its coming from the engine and speed would be the rest of the drivetrain. If you buy a new balancer do yourself a favor and don't buy a py stock replacement. I bought a cheap autozone balancer once and it broke in half and caused my crank to snap(this thread (http://"http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=9751&highlight=brokeblock+mountain"))
You can get a decent balancer for under $200 so its worth the money to use good parts.
Also did you have the flywheel balanced with the rest of the motor? I gave my machinist the balancer and flywheel and he balanced everything
good luck let us know how you make out
I had 2 different vibrations...one vibration was speed-related, which the car has had for a long time. That was the driveshaft, and has now been fixed. There is now an RPM related vibration that just started a couple of weeks ago.
The flywheel wasn't balanced with the engine, but it only has a few thousand miles on it and I do not have any shifting issues, so it's highly unlikely that the flywheel is the problem. Also remember that the input shaft spins at rpm; that's the main candidate right now since we've checked the balancer and it doesnt seem to have moved at all. We may try to stick on my old balancer just for kicks since we know it wasn't causing a vibration on the old engine.
Does it vibrate at RPMs with the clutch depressed(car setting still)??? If so, it's in the engine, or flywheel/clutch assly...
Flywheel vibrations aren't likely going to cause a clutch engagement problem... Still developing a vibration isn't usually flywheel related, maybe was there all along and wasn't noticed due to the drive shaft???
Yes, it does it sitting still at around 4k...hence why we're gonna try the balancer next. No, the driveshaft never really caused a vibration till at least 70...I had done pleeeenty of 0-60 runs in the car and never felt any sort of vibration. If it's in the engine, then I give up. It's getting ridiculous now, I just want my car back. Thing ran all day long with the stock 155k mile HO without any of these stupid problems. I really hope it's just the balancer. Even if it's the input shaft on the tranny, that's not a huge problem. But if this engine has to come apart...
Also worthy to note that I think the brand new clutch is having problems. If I'm in, say, 4th gear and coasting, then tap the gas, the car has like a delayed response then it kinda jerks forward and goes fine. I first started noticing it today as I was trying to get used to the feel of the new clutch and kept thinking that some of my rough shifts weren't caused by my pedal work. This stuff is really getting on my nerves...maybe some good dyno numbers this afternoon will get my hopes up. With the way things are going, though, I'm not holding my breath.
/negative attitude
Ummm.. I wouldnt recommend Dynoing it til the viberation is taken care of.....
Cars are a pain in the ass dude... look at mine, I just got done swapping in a new T5, now I gotta tear it back out and change the clutch.... I just cant be bothered right now to do it.... maybe next week. NOT looking forward to pulling the LT's which is what I think my hold up is...
If you hold the clutch in, the input shaft isn't turning, so can't be the problem...
Unless it's slipping, a clutch is fully engaged with the pedal out, your jerking sounds like some other problem...
Yeah I was thinking that too, nows not the best time to go all out open throttle with her
I know you said the flywheel wasn't balanced with the motor, but I don't see how it could be properly balanced without the flywheel you're gonna use.
Im wondering if he meant "coasting" as in clutch in/in neutral....or if he meant decelerating with the clutch engaged in 4th, and off the pedal?
Was wondering about the engaged/disengaged clutch as well, but took it to be engaged coasting in 4th...
If the crank was balanced as factory, then flywheel balance isn't necessary(still it's a good idea)... Now breezing back to the machine shop and assembly pictures, I found no mention of the replacement crank being balanced at all...
Have you tried just putting it in neutral and revving it? If it still vibrates I'm pretty sure that it's the engine.
I would hope they balanced the crank. I know that even though I reused the stock crank in my block the machiene shop re-balanced it before they put it back in.
My crank was fully turned and balanced at the machine shop, along with the rest of the rotating assembly (pistons and such). I would think an unbalanced crank would be obvious from the get-go....car ran for over 1000 miles before this started. Also, we've done a few WOT runs with the car since the vibration trying to figure it out. I'll see what they say when I get there.
As for the new issue I mentioned, I mean with everything fully engaged. It's worst in the lower gears, but I can get it to happen in 4th and 5th without problem. Just have it in gear, coast, then get back on the gas. I think it's the clutch slipping because that never happened before the clutch/pressure plate swap. Brand new parts suck...gonna be even better if it's my brand new balancer causing the vibration.
You're no doubt correct that if there was a problem, it should have been obvious from the begnning... Maybe you'll get lucky and it will be the balancer, they can cause a nasty vibration...
Yeah, my gut is tellin me that it's the balancer and that we should have tried that from the beginning haha.
Anyways...just got back from the dyno. Yeah, I know...probably not the best idea, but the car is fine. First 2 pulls started out dreadful with 192rwhp and 199rwhp respectively (280rwtq both pulls). I was thinkin "Oh great, I haven't gone anywhere from the stock HO!" So we bumped the timing to 13 degrees and...wow...235rwhp then 240rwhp with 295rwtq. Tried one more timing bump to 15 degrees and managed to squeeze 300rwtq out of it, but then she was gettin hot so we left it at that. I'm definitely thrilled with the results; right where I wanted to be. A couple of basic bolt ons will no doubt get even more. So thats the story...although I do have a rocker making some noise, so I'm gonna go check out that out in a little bit. I'll have scans of the best rwhp and rwtq runs very soon. The torque curve is AWESOME, as you guys will see. And the AFR was right on spec as well.
Congrat's on the numbers, with a good launch that will get you mid 13s fairly easily...
Thanks man, I'm excited...that was really the extra motivation I needed after the low I hit last night haha. Also, I forgot to mention that the guys up there commented on my engine bay; said it was the cleanest 5.0 engine bay they've seen in a while haha. I always love compliments like that. Makes all the hard work worth it. Anyways, I got the scans up:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/240rwhp.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/300rwtq.jpg)
Excuse the misspelled "Thunderbrid" :hick:
Sweet! Now you can brag that your car has 300 lb/ft of torque and have the dyno sheets to back it up.
Hopefully you get your vibration issues worked out...those can be trying to figure out sometimes.
Well the vibration has been figured out. Remember the tapping sound I mentioned just a couple posts ago? And the "faulty" oil pressure gauge from a few posts before that? Combine that with the vibration issue and the picture isn't pretty. The engine is coming back out and getting torn down. So right at a moment of triumph comes right back with complete demoralization. It's gonna be a long journey....
Hang in there man. Its like a guy told me once "if this stuff were easy to work on girls would do it" (no offense to our female readers). This was coming from a guy who spent like $30,000 on a pulling truck motor and had it blow up on him in the first pull of the season:toilet:! He ended up busting his ass and winning the championship the next year. Stay determined, don't give up, and keep your goals in mind and I am sure you will be OK.
Dayuum nice numbers dude!
Well it looks like the 306 will be comin out in a couple of weeks when we're back from vacation; we'll regasket the old HO and put it back in for the time being, then begin the process of diagnosing the oil pressure issue. Who knows...maybe the heads and intake will be a little more...um.....open...when they return onto the engine :evilgrin: .
Need to see this dyno sheet. at least it held together.
Posted before it all loaded, sorry .
Sorry to hear of your bad luck. It may not be much consolation, but most of us who have the high performance bug can empathize with your experience. It's frustrating, heart breaking and down right demoralizing! I've been there a few times too. You will figure it out. You'll tweak the combination and be happier with ithe next iteration. It's a learning curve we all endure. You'll be amazed at how quickly the engine will come out and get torn down! Thankfully you have an engine to swap back in to get back on the road. Hope it goes well and doesn't make you too crazy.
Ha too late, it's already made me crazy! :hick:
The good thing is that I've been exposed to the hobby pretty much since the moment i was born...I grew up watching dad go through the same troubles, most recently being all the frustration with the 383, seeing it throw a thrust bearing on the 2nd test drive, etc. It's part of the hobby. I'm happy that I KNOW the power I'm making, though, and maybe I'll have money left over to improve on it this time. Assuming we don't need machine work, I figure assembly won't take as long this time either since the process is fresh in our mind and everything is still clean haha.
Sorry you're having issues, possibly it has a spun bearing... The extra weight of the bearing hanging on the journal will cause a vibration and of course a knock if it's loose in the rod...
With only 306cu in, I'd leave the heads alone... Porting them may give a bit more on the top but you'll loose on the low end... If you had a 351 or larger then I'd say go for it... I'll be leaving my Trick Flows unported when the 331 goes in...
That sucks but at least you have a spare engine and you are aware enough to pull the other one apart before something gets destroyed. Probably wont be all that much of a big deal once your done. At least everything you are working with is fresh. With these cars being easy to work on, you should be able to swap engines an a few hours with your eyes closed by the time you are done...:hick:
well something is obviously wrong, as your combo is similar to mine except you have GT40 heads and roller rockers, (which means you should be making more power then I) and you only put down the same amount as i did. You should be making way more then that.
That's pretty much the power mine had as well with a mildly slipping clutch.....which is getting replaced soon.
Dont forget that I'm also running the stock cam, and there is no porting on the heads or intake.......yet :evilgrin: .
And yes...swapping engines and working through these 5.0s is becoming child's play now haha. Unless the block needs more machine work, I suspect that this go around will go much quicker without having to wait for funds and not having to clean parts.
The stock cam is actually a decent cam to begin with... the bottle neck in the power department is the E7 heads... Thats why you dont really pick up a whole lot of power on a stock 302 with a cam swap...
Either way man, I am anxious to see what you car does on the strip...
Good luck with the swap.... AGAIN. LOL hey maybe seing you get her back up and going will give me the kick in the ass I need to swap my clutch out this week. HAHA
Most of the real hardcore track junkies will even say to stick with the stock HO cam over the Ford letter cams even after a head swap to something such as the GT-40's or GT-40p's. After getting some seat time in a couple of e7 head e-cam AOD cars, I will support this. Being that you have a 5 speed the soft low end on some cams won't affect you as much.
Yeah, after seeing the torque curve on the 300rwtq dyno graph, there's no way I'm changing cams. The most I may do to the engine while it's out is open up the exhaust ports a little bit on the Ys (thats where the main bottleneck is on those heads), have Tmoss do my lower intake, and grab an e-fan. Also can't forget a couple of real, trustworthy gauges...engine isn't going back in without em this time.
Yeah with mine if I walk it out at 1500rpm... you can feel the power band kick in and push you into the seat at 2500 and pull till around 5500 or so. I will have another dyno day at the end of the month at Joe Dasilva's place. I cant wait for him to run my car... He loves Cougars. Im gonna ask him if he will drive mine down the track next time he is there.:evilgrin:
Engine came out today...no real leaks or anything to speak of, which is awesome. May tear into it a little bit tomorrow before work to get a sneak peak at what could be wrong. I'll keep you all updated.
Engine is apart...rod and main bearings are FUBAR, everything else seems to have made it fine though. Looks like the crank wasn't quite right somehow...maybe didn't fit perfectly in the block, we can't be sure. It wasn't the crank that came with the block; the crank that came with the engine was too far gone, so we're wondering if just this crank didn't quite fit perfectly somehow since the crank's wear spots are only in certain places as opposed to full rings that go all the way around it; even though when we built it, we plastiguaged the clearances and they were good. Who knows.
sounds like the crank was bent.... Which would also explain your viberation issues... Did you have the block aline honed before installing that crank?
well if your buying a crank you might as well buy a stroker crank :) theres always a positive side. Good Luck with the rebuild kingcars... hang in there :)
I wouldn't say the crank was BENT since the vibration didn't occur until after 1000 miles. But a loose, wiped out rear main bearing seems to be the most obvious culprit.
And no, the block was not aline honed as far as I know. It definitely will be this time around.
On the good side,it's only money.LOL.Good luck.
your bearings took a shiznit, because you lost oil pressure, right?
It's kinda one of those "Did the chicken come first or the egg?" situations. From the look of the wear on the crank (at the middle thrust bearing), it looks like it may not have been a 100% perfect fit, which caused uneven wear, killed the bearing, killing the oil pressure, killing other bearings. That's the hypothesis right now; it's all going to the machine shop for professional buttstuffysis. The cam and cam bearings all look fine; all the big wear is in the rod bearings, main bearings, and crank.
Hope it all goes back together smoothly. I hope mine goes well.
The shop didn't align hone the block? They should have. That's usually standard procedure for a rebuild....
The shop did supply the crank, so they should make good and provide another crank and bearings...
Agreed. Dad has a long history with them and they've always stood behind their work so I don't forsee any problems.
As far as the aline hone, they may have done it for standard procedure; I can't remember them mentioning it though since maybe it's just assumed.
Dropped everything off at the machine shop today....block, pistons, crank, oil pump, oil filter, flywheel, pressure plate, etc. He's gonna take a look and see what went wrong; his first thought is that something may have clogged an oil passage somewhere since the engine was getting very good oil pressure at first. I already told him that I want it align honed, making sure the crank fits just right, and the WHOLE assembly (balancer, crank, flywheel, etc) get balanced. Taking all precautions...and I thought I was buttstuff the first time around.
Nice nice... good thing that at least there's a history with this guy and hopefully he'll cut no corners in examining the whole thing.
Hell just make it a 347 :D
And get rid of the pistons I already spent $500 on? Haha...I'm taking donations!
did the oil pickup screen look clogged?
No, it looks fine. The only real strange thing we noticed is that there was very little oil in the oil filter when we took it out.
ask how much more it would cost to go to a zero balance. The more vibrations there are at higher rpm's, the more power you will lose and the more the block will wear and the crank will bend.
I hate this thread. It reminds me of my own trials with my first motor that had a bad block due to the ignorant machine shop. Remember the mention of checking EVERYTHING before putting it together and starting it? :p I wish I had spent more in the beginning to come out ahead with better parts and lower cost in the end.
I'm not sure which is worse, having to machine a different block or having to start over with a new crank. Both cases, you're starting from scratch. Bearings and gaskets add up fast.
Well, we plastiguaged the clearances during assembly and everything was dead on spec, so who the heck knows. Could have been a blockage in an oil passage somewhere also, we won't know for sure just yet. But yeah...all that small stuff adds up. Not looking forward to it. Luckily, I had gotten the reusable blue rubber valve cover and oil pan gaskets, so at least I wont have to get those again.
Ok so I looked through the 3g alt thread/sticky out of curiosity and and final drafts are gone...can anyone point me to them?
only thing I found is this..
not sure what that means or where the public link is??!! I might have it saved at home, I'll check for you when I'm done at work
annnnd. anthony. you dont need to change your .030 over pistons to make a 347 or 331.
thats alllllll in the crank. different stroke.
I believe you do, the piston is shorter in height to allow for more strokage LOL... just a guess double check that with your engine builder/machinist
ummm, yes you do. crnk, rods, and pistons will need to be changed.
Yeah so...going 331/347 is 100% not an option, unless I happen to win the lottery very soon haha. The bottom end has already cost me more than what the car cost :hick: . And yeah, thats all I found in that thread as well...hence why I can't find it :( .
Ok, so nothing major to report at the moment. Scored a Mark VIII efan and a 130amp alternator...gonna grab some UD pulleys soon as well. As far as the engine, even the machinist is stumped. The oil filter is the only think we can really point at...even though it was clean when opened up. Who knows. Either way, I hope to have the parts back in my hands within the next few weeks and ready to go back together...maybe with a couple of surprises in store. :) Let's just say that I think she'll be back with a vengeance.
I bet you are ready to get it back on the road. So is the machinist going to make it right with you?
Saying that the past 2 months have been miserable is an understatement :(
Not sure...looks like my choice of oil filter may have caused it (stupid 99.9% efficiency Purolator...aint touchin those ever again).
Weak. Sounds like a cop-out to me. Lucky it wasn't a $4000 build. Regardless, I'm sure you are anxious to put this behind you. I know i would be. Season is half over. ;0(
We'll see what happens.
Dont remind me :(
season half over for what? street racing is always in season.
You know Motorcraft FL-1A filters are just re-labeled Purolator filters right? I've been running FL-1A filters on my 5.0 since the rebuild and even before with no problems. On non Fords in my family I always run Purolator filters. They are some of the best ones out there.
Coulda just been a crazy freak occurance....:( same here Lou I use nothing but FL-1A's since the Advance right by me carries MCraft stuff.
Im personally still shocked that not ZERO but simply not "maximum" oil pressure grenaded that thing. Maybe because it was still being broken in?
I guess Id do like Im sure youre planning on, just be a puppies about the pressure keep an eye trained right on that, just check the filter all the time I guess, once a week pull it off see if its nice and full like it should be. It could have been THAT oil filter....a small part of me wants to agree with shame302 though...I just cant get past it doing that without being totally starved of oil. That thing was not starved IMO. Weird stuff...idk
Well dad is somewhat in the same train of thought...he thinks the crank was just a HAAAIIIR off of perfect clearance. However, I'd think something like that would have been apparent much sooner than after 1000 miles of pretty hard driving/lots of high RPMs. I don't honestly expect to ever know for sure what happened, I just hope that iteration #2 lasts like it freakin should. I'm growing tired of this.
Well no real news regarding the 306...still waiting to get the block and stuff back. After considering that it's still 2-3 weeks before we get the stuff back, another 4-5 weeks to build it, then another weekend to put it in, dad and I have decided to finally regasket the old HO as planned and put it in. I ordered the last few things today: mechanical oil pressure and water temp gauges, another flywheel, and underdrive pulleys. Plan to include the 3g alt and Mark VIII fan in the install. Might have it in this weekend...stay tuned.
Ok well today is a weird day...because I have some good news....and more good news!
The first good news is that thanks to some help from a friend and my dad, the HO is almost ready to go back in. Fully regasketed now with only a few small things left. We also found the probable cause of its blowby/oil burning issue...the PCV filter was clogged to high heaven, so I got a new one.
The more good news is that my dad is buying me a new cast steel crank as my college graduation gift (though I didnt ask for a gift :) ). Also, after the balancing, the machine shop is going to mic everything for proper clearances and even assemble the short block for us so all we have to do is the top end. I'm excited...things are finally looking good again.
Wow I guess nobody cares anymore...but I'll keep updating. Engine is going in tomorrow. Cant wait to have my car baaaack!
People wanna see pics of good things....or carnage...maybe carnage is preferable I dunno. Perhaps if it threw a couple rods and opened up your oil pan for you. :hick:
I'm watching, I'm watching!! :D
:ttiwwp:
Or maybe I post to many. :hick:
Well I had planned to have pics of the engine in the car posted right about now.....but the stupid flywheel that I ordered didn't come with the dowel pins, despite the fact that I ordered the same exact flywheel for the 5 speed swap and it did come with them. Hopefully we can get them tomorrow.
Ok so now that the local Ford place had the dowel pins for us this morning, progress has finally been made on the project I like to call "Tbird: Resurrection"
Can anybody spot the 3 "major" changes from stock?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdresurrection001small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdresurrection003small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdresurrection004small.jpg)
The first 2 should be easy to spot and once you see those, the 3rd is pretty easy to guess. Anyways, she's only a couple hours of work away from firing up, barring any major problems! :D
hedders, 3g alt,.. and you got me on the last one.....
No wait.... its a no restriction hot air intake!!!!!!
LOL J/K
Headers have been on the car for a couple of years now, so it's not that. The changes I mention from "stock" are referring to a stock Mustang engine (guess I should have clarified, sorry). But a 3G alt is correct, so there's #1.
Taurus fan, valve covers. :D
Well, specifically a Mark VIII fan but same thing really :) . That's #2. The last one isn't very easy to see in the pics but it's a common upgrade to perform in conjunction with the 2 already found.
EDIT: Hahahaha I knew someone would say "valve covers."
Oh,I got it......no belt.That really adds the horsepower.
OH SNAP, you figured out my secrets!! :rollin:
In all seriousness, though...nope :flip:
smog pump delete....
Yes thats been done, but not what I'm referring to. You're all over it though...very close. (Hint: the 3G alt is pretty much required for this upgrade to not negatively affect the car)
Underdrives?
I was about to say that,you beat me to it.
If it is underdrives,let me know how they work out for you.I was thinking about getting a polished aluminum set and a polished aluminum steering pump pulley.I have heard good and bad about them.
Thing looks gooood with an engine in it doesnt it hahaha. What's that radiator? That looks just like the big-ass 3 core I got for mine.
Stock radiator as far as I know...never changed it.
And yes, the last upgrade is underdrives. I haven't driven the car yet but dad said she's runnin real strong. I just need to do a few odds and ends to get it where I like it then I'll be off driving around tonight :D .
Well she's finally back running again! Runs great, idles great, no more high pitched sound from the lower intake gasket either hahahaha. Wow, though, I don't think I ever remember the car having so much low end grunt! It is a BLAST to drive without even having to go past 3500rpm. This is seriously making me consider leaving the cam at stock 0 degrees in the 306. It's just so nice to have it back, regardless :) .
If it is underdrives,let me know how they work out for you.I was thinking about getting a polished aluminum set and a polished aluminum steering pump pulley.I have heard good and bad about them.[/QUOTE]
Vinnie, underdrives are good.....have them on mine for about 2years now with no complaints, she does run a tad warmer though but nothing serious
Very cool King, glad to hear it is back in action. My XR-7 is still down with a blown T5. I am thinking of throwing an AOD back in it for now just to get it going again.
And I would imagine that an efan helps take care of that small issue (you're still running the stock fan, right?). Vinnie, this engine has never run this good before. It's definitely stronger than it was before and just runs like a champ. I love it.
Good to see you can at least enjoy driving the car for the rest of the summer. I really like your car...so keep us updated!!
Just got off the phone with the machine shop - after a problem with the crank (the company sent them the wrong one...idiots) everything is going fine again and they'll be assembling the short block next week. So finally, it looks like I'll have the engine back in the garage very soon for final assembly and install. I can't wait!!!
Man, after all the problems you have had with your car, I'm glad to see your getting your affairs in order. That thing must be a blast...I would love to drive a RWD V8 with a 5 speed, unfortunatly, I've only driven a 91 camry with the 4 banger and my Ram with the 3.9 v6 (which is a beast of it's own, but still not a V8 lol)
Thanks, I'm also glad that progress is once again being made in a forward direction. RWD/V8/manual is the best way to have it! What keeps me motivated is how fun the car is to drive when it's actually running properly haha.
Anyways, my friend finally uploaded the pics she took of my car at the track a few weeks ago:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdattrack.jpg)
^one of my fav pics already
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdattrack3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/tbirdattrack2.jpg)
Me about to get pwnd by a stout GTO that was running low 8s (1/8th mile)
You would have won if there was only one person in your car. ;)
Sorry for the long hiatus...it's been a rough while for the Tbird. The highway vibration has returned despite the driveshaft being fixed...we're suspecting the tailshaft bearing this time. But it's been causing my once perfectly sound interior to slowly become a rattle trap :( . Then right before Christmas, the heater core took a , so my friend and I spent a couple of days on that and ended up adding a couple of dash cracks and a broken seatbelt sleeve to the already deteriorating interior. The next weekend, the heater core had to be replaced in my sisters car, and as I was about to move my car so we could go on a test drive in it, the starter went bad. It's also been the coldest winter we've had in a long time, the poor Tbird is filthy and has salt all over it (about to go take a hose to it in a few minutes) and the trunk is leaking pretty bad. As for the 306, it's still slated for "next week" as it has been for the past few months haha. So things are just at an all-time low right now and it's been hard to stay motivated. I guess the car was gonna have to show its age at some point. I'm still trying though...I'm hoping that getting the 306 back provides the spark that I need. However, I'm excited to be finally getting something "fun" for the Tbird here soon...maybe someone who's been in the classifieds recently will know ;) .
Sorry for the rant, but I figured you guys would like an update.
I wondered where you had been. Trust me I know how you feel about everything happening at once. My trunk leaked, my windshield leaked, I let the car roll into the garage and put a dent in it, I have a vibration still (hope to get the driveshaft balanced and take care of it), my dash is cracked to hell from changing heater cores. It took me some time but about all of those things are fixed save for the vibration and cracked dash (got a new dash cover for x-mas though). Hang in there bud, your car is rad. Spring is just around the corner!!!
I almost forgot to mention...we finally put the Tbird on some scales. She weighed in at 3370lbs with a half tank of gas an no driver (3480 with me in it). Not bad...should be about 40lbs lighter with the aluminum headed 306 :) .
As for the vibration, we fixed the driveshaft before putting the old engine back in. For a couple of months she was perfect, but now it's back again. We've checked the driveshaft and it's fine.
I had a bent passenger side axle. Replaced it and my vibration problem is gone ;)
Welcome back.It'll all come together,you know that.I always run into a slump in the winter,then,SPRING FEVER !!! I get this crazy boost of energy,and get a LOT done.I'm ready to swap my engine as well.I also still have a vibration.I'm think axle.There's nothing left to swap.I'm about to replace the differential and axles.Hopefully that,and the new motor mounts,will fix the problem.When money allows,I'm getting a cop car Crown Vic driveshaft,and having it shortened and balanced.That'll help as well.Keep your spirits up and get busy if you have a warm garage.I don't have a warm garage,so,I'm stuck.Post a little more often so we'll know you're alive.
I know the feeling also, done my H/C change and man she run great for about 2 weeks then problems that i just couldn't seem to figure out. Had to take a %20 pay cut at work back in June and money is TIGHT, then problems with the house start appearing etc. etc,,,, and it is just to cold out to work on any car without a heated garage, but hang in there and things will come around before we know it......................:D
Hey, been a while. How are your u-joints? I dropped my driveshaft with a broken u-joint this last week. I had a vibration that came and went. It ended up eating my yoke aswell. Just something to think about when you swap your motor. u-joints are about $10 and no speciallty tools.
We are still waiting for the motor. The u joints are fine except the yoke is bad again the Transmission shop we asked to check the tailshaft bearing says it is fine, well it's not. I think he is too lazy to do it, imagine that? someone turning down a paying customer? Time to find a good transmission shop!
Good thing we installed the old standby engine!!
I am ready to see the new engine......again.
Sweet project. I love the clips. What is your exhaust setup?
That makes two of us! Just got off the phone with the machine shop and it's on track for Thursday.
Thanks! As for the exhaust, it's just stock Mustang headers, cheap summit offroad h-pipe, and cheap Cherry Bomb Turbo 2 lers.
Time for another update. I reluctantly took the Tbird to a shop last week to have the vibration checked out. Ended up being a bad tailshaft bushing that wiped out the yoke. I go to pick up the car today and there were white specks all over my console area/system sentry/heater controls/shifter boot and plastic. I already called the shop and I'm taking it back to them tomorrow; if anyone can help me get some replacement pieces, I would greatly appreciate it. However, not all the news is bad...the Tbird is driving smoother than it ever has, so mechanically, I'm very pleased with the car.
As for the 306, the shop hit a snag with some oiling problems within the block so they had to add restrictors in it. I'm really hoping she's ready in time for spring!
They got something all over your interior? Or is it damage...?
Thinkin' it's be time to find another place to work on it...after some retribution has been taken.
Is it paint specks?
Looks like Brake clean, it's etched into the surface. This guy came recommended! We will see how he handles this situation before Anthony does this :flame:
Just got back from the shop. They admitted to the mistake and will be paying for the new bezel, heater controls, and system sentry. I had no problem dealing with them and there was 0 intent on their part for denying the situation, so I'm very pleased.
the machine shop STILL has your block?? how long has it been?
Well he's also pretty much building the engine this time around as well. He wasn't happy with how it was oiling when he got it all together a couple of weeks ago; he had to put restrictors in the block then build it again, but it's almost ready for round 2. The shop is notorious for taking its time, but is also well known for the quality work.
Having worked in a shot before, I do know that sometimes things happen...glad to hear they're doing the right thing about your interior. Kudos to you for not flying off the handle, and to them for taking care of their mess-up.
Quality should always be job 1, but I think I can appreciate your impatience ;)
Yeah, I understand that people make mistakes. I probably sounded a bit heated yesterday when I called because it was soon after the fact, but today I had plenty of time to cool down and go about the situation properly. They gave me zero problem and stood behind their work, and that's all I can ask for.
For those who were wondering, this is what they did to my previously perfect center dash area...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/badinterior.jpg)
does it not wipe off? looks very diluted whatever it is. and they're replacing the parts that stuff is on? how are they replacing with new when they're obsolete?
It does not wipe off, trust me I tried. I told the guy that the pieces are rather hard to come by but I know where to look (this forum :hick: ) and that I'd have written receipts for everything to bring back for them and they'll reimburse me for the cost. I'd rather get the parts myself anyway since I know exactly what I want.
So I've pretty much got every piece lined up and I hope they arrive in the next week or two, at which point my interior should be looking the best it ever has! Stay tuned, and thanks to everyone who has helped :D .
Good news to hear your getting everything worked out!
Imho, it may not be a bad idea to go and talk to the machinist. Any time they say there is an oiling problem with a motor that has had a crank wiped out, it would be a good idea to have them show you exactly what they were "restricting" before the bottom end gets buttoned up. Don't be afraid to ask them questions, you'll rest easier once the engine is in.
Good luck!
Ok so we got pretty much all of the interior odds and ends done today. I love the tripminder! Only problem is...we can't figure out how to set the clock :hick: . Pics coming soon...I need to clean the interior out big time first.
I look forward to seeing all those pretty parts finally put to use! How did the Tripminder harness I made work out?
Harness worked out great! Thanks :D . Plugged in with no problem.
Hold the TIME button and then at the same time hold one of the little round buttons i wanna say the right one will do hours left one does minutes, could be wrong though. Date is the same way, one of em does month one does year. For the E-Time, push one of em once to start/stop, the other to reset. Again can't remember which is which, and for some reason I *usually* don't, just try it and find out pretty much every time, seriously. :rollin: E-Time will have Minutes : Seconds and then will change to Hours : Minutes when it maxes out.
Yeah we got the tripminder set now. However, it seems that the decimal point is off. AVG speed is correct, current MPG reads 175 instead of 17.5, avg MPG reads 172.5 instead of 17.25, and fuel used reads .2 instead of 2. Is this normal? The numbers seem correct, but the decimal is just off...
MPG should only be 17.2, I don't think they had a double decimal...
That's how it's been reading though. Who knows.
I'm sorry to hear about the Tripminder not working properly. It was the only nice one I had left, but I do have another I was rebuilding for myself. It is all taken apart at the moment, but if you like, I can check to see if this one has the same issue. If it is better I can send you the 'guts' of it if you wanted to swap out the insides and send me back the one with the faulty decimal point. Let me know.
Ed
Thank you for the offer. We'll have to make sure we have everything set and connected properly as well, but I'll let you know. But doing the math, all the statistics seem to be correct with what the car should be doing. I'm averaging around 17-18mpg, the fuel used and trip mileage coincide with that, and the real-time MPG works right in line with the amount of throttle being used (dad and I had fun watching it plummet when I got on the gas :hick: ). I do really like that it's the green lense that matches the interior :) .
As some might now (those who have been following my thread on Corral), there have been issues with the machine shop. The engine, as of 2 weeks ago, was STILL in bare block form. This friday we will be picking it up and taking it home regardless of if it's done or not.
However, I have another problem right now. I was planning to order the sequential turn signal kit for my bday this year but now they're all gone. Is there any way I can get one or make my own?
linky
http://www.webelectricproducts.com/products.htm
Thanks for that link! Have you, or anyone else on here used that kit? Is the quality good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/C14-Sequencer-Turn-Signals-Universal-Conversion-kit-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ef2543734QQitemZ270353577780QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
This is the kit I was looking at. A bit more expensive though.
Today I've ordered a few things in preparation for the 306's triumphant, long overdue return. I ordered a very nice, high quality dual speed fan control from Dakota Digital along with a pair of 80 amp relays, and a new Ford Racing clutch cable. I will also be ordering a new transmission crossmember to help eliminate the bouncing.
I havent ordered mine yet but there are a few guys on here as well as NATO who have had good results
Thanks for the info. And dang, I LOVE their warranty page! That's so awesome.
Here's the nice fan control system I got:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=641/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd641.htm
No more cheap puppiesanese junk with 30 amp relays for my efan.
How's the engine coming along? I've got a little daydream prancing in my head of building a nice little ole 306 this coming winter.. :evilgrin:
Alright, so today was the day. I called up the machine shop, got another excuse, he told me it'd be done next week (I'll get back to this in a minute), so I called up dad and we went and picked my stuff up. He gave us no hassle, didn't ask why, or anything. Surprisingly, or maybe not so, everything was in the exact condition it was when I dropped it off a year ago; old gasketing from the first build was still present, the block hadn't been honed, my new pushrods weren't ordered yet, etc. The only thing that had been done was the new crank had been ordered and dropped off at a neighboring shop for balancing just TWO WEEKS AGO. The funny thing is that there's way more than a week's worth of work left to do on this engine. I'm currently in the process of finding a well known, respected shop so I can get the block honed and prepped.
While he got everything together for us, we stopped by the neighboring shop (a shop that did all the machining work for us many years ago during my dad's racing days) and got the full scoop. The main problem here wasn't a machine shop trying to screw us over or not interested in the money (which I didn't expect anyway) - the guy simply bit off more work than he could chew, and this has been a continuing problem as of the past couple of years. Instead of admitting fault, all we got was excuse after excuse, and that really was the biggest problem.
So anyways, we spent a good bit of time talking with the other shop about what needs to be done and that sort of stuff. I emphasized a few times that I just want a *FIRM* timeframe of when he can get the balancing done and that I'm not going to deal with setbacks and such anymore. He understood/agreed and told me to come get the stuff next Friday; he'll be balancing my rotating assembly.
All in all, I'm just glad everything is back under my control and it has certainly been a learning experience for both me and my father. Next time I have a project like that being done by a shop, I will make it a point to stop by every week or so and expect to see progress; not only that, but a written contract will be made with a due date, among other things. I need to take a more firm, hands on approach next time to avoid a situation like this.
As for other news, I have some new car parts coming in. I've got a nice new Ford Racing clutch cable, some 80amp relays that will be implemented into the high quality two-speed fan control system that I bought, and my sequential tailight kit arrived today. Things are coming together, and while it's been a long and frustrating ride, it'll only make it that much more satisfying when I get it on the road, track, and dyno.
Dude....hats off to ya. I woulda flipped my lid and kicked ass lol.
Sucks about the progress (rather, lack thereof) but maybe by going to someone else, it'll have a better eye on detail, etc.
Still a bummer though. I'd be so hot I'd set off fire alarms 50 yards away, but patience is NOT a virtue I can call my own.
Did you pay the guy that's had your engine anything? I'm sure he's a guy I would never do business with,and I'd keep all my friend's from him.Even if he "bit off more than he could chew",that is really bad business.I'd respect a guy who said "I'm just too busy" than to try to string me along for ages......but I wouldn't have let it go a year.I'm patient,but I have my limits.Glad to hear you have control over the project.Hopefully progress will start again soon.
If he tried saying something or complaining in any way, trust me, I was ready to go off if needed. But in all honestly, it's normally not the best way to go about things. It's one more thing off his back, I feel better now that I have a better grasp of what's going on, and we can just move on.
You're right, it is bad business. My dad and I were discussing that during the 45 minute drive there and back. And I also eluded to in my post - it would've made things easier to swallow if he was just straight up and said "Hey, I screwed up and I won't be able to get to your project in a timely manner" at which point I could have decided on whether to leave it there or take it. And no, he didn't charge for any labor. My dad and I both wish we had realized this sooner, but you live and you learn, even at 49 years old.
When you have the block machined, make sure they zero deck your block and pistions. Tell them what you want to have done, and if they has suggestions, look into it. I had a couple of people who paid to have the block zero decked and they took there money, but didn't do it.
Feels good to be updating with some pics again! Got a few goodies to compliment the 306s soon-to-be triumphant return :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/fancontrol.jpg)
Brand new Dakota Digital dual speed fan control system, with the included 70amp relay and a pair of 80amp DPDT relays. Hoping to avoid what happened to my previous cheapo setup...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs015.snc3/12323_383323183023_667463023_3699952_5133453_n.jpg)
And I got the sequential turn signal kit:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/signalkit.jpg)
There will be more goodies arriving in the days ahead :)
Those 70amp relays look good. The 30's high current lugs are puny compared to those. That's some good stuff there!
There was some bad luck with the machinist, but the end result will be a stronger running motor. Keep at it and post more pics of the new/better build :evilgrin:
The thing I'm learning quickly is that all of those "I did xx project for 1/2 the price that most people pay" or "You can do this project for cheap" things never end well. Although the setup I have pictured set me back a good bit, my dad and I are both confident that it's the right choice.
It's also the reason my 306 build has cost way more than what most people spend on a similar setup; I always spend the extra money where it counts. Forged pistons instead of hyper, fully remachined block, balanced rotating assembly etc...I could have just slapped some GT40Ps, 1.7 rockers and an explorer intake onto my engine for a fraction of the price, but that's just not how I roll.
Yeah, it was just a bad situation all around. Hoping to be picking up my rotating assembly this evening...I'll be in shock if a deadline is actually met!!
On a random sidenote, can ANYONE tell me where I can get this intake plate?
(http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ProdImages/M9434A52-B.jpg)
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=M9434A52+01
Tried to order it yesterday but I got a call about 40 minutes later saying that they can't get it. I also cant find it on ebay either.
Those plates periodically show up on ebay , try "ford motorsport" as your search words as well as intake plate or plaque
if you keep an eye out I'm sure one will show up sooner or later :D
Save your money make your own plate :)
That's what I did.Looks great,too.
I wanna keep with the Ford OEM/factory theme...finally found someone who has it brand new, unopened. Can't wait to see how it looks :D .
You mean this plate I've had for years?
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/cantigny%202009/DSCN0984.jpg)
The one I contacted you about a long time ago :P
-kingcars (posting on dad's account oops)
Just got back from the machine shop today; picked up my rotating assembly (omg it was done on time! I was actually the late one by a couple of days haha). Everything has been balanced. He said that the pistons were WAY out of whack to the point where he actually had to take some material off of them to get all of the weights right. I can also see where he had to do a lot of work on the crank itself.
But anyways, now I just have to order some pushrods, main bearings and rod bearings. Any recommendations on going with either H or P bearings? I know the basic pros and cons of each, I'm just undecided at the moment.
Also, these are the pushrods I'm looking at getting. From my research, 6.25" is the stock length. I also measured some stockers I had lying around.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-21406250/
Hmmmm...had a nice little present come in the mail yesterday...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/cobraintakeplate.jpg)
Definitely the hardest to find piece on my engine so far haha.
Nice.If you use it on an Explorer intake,add the two extra screw heads to the extra holes on the plate to give it the right look. Nice piece ,though,and they are getting harder to find. If I may ask,how much $$ ?
He told me to name a price, so I went by what Mustangs Unlimited listed it for and sent him $25, since it was still brand new in the packaging. And yeah, I'm aware of the 2 missing screw holes in the Explorer intake. Can you just drill/tap them in?
Yes,you can drill and tap them,or,just cut the heads off of two extra screws and a use a little adhesive of your choice to fill the empty spots.Great deal on the plate.
Definitely poured babbitt bearings.
So he's putting in a tractor engine?
I put Federal Mogul - Sealed Power brand Tri-Metal main bearings in my engine, when I rebuilt it. Engine has been great so far with good oil pressure.
I haven't read through all the pages of this build (it looks like you're on build #2?). Are you aware of the need to check for the proper push rod length prior to purchasing a set? A very common error in engine assembly is pluging in a "stock" push rod in a non-stock engine.
Items which influence push rod length are:
a decked or squared block,
resurfaced heads,
heads converted from pedestal to stud mount,
aftermarket heads,
aftermarket cam base circle
If you have a completely stock engine, stock push rods are fine. If the engine is modified, the proceedure to check the length will ensure you have proper valve train geometry.
It's an extra step to make sure you get the result you're expecting.
Some the the possible problems which can result from the wrong push rod length are:
broken studs or pedestal bolts,
low compression,
low vacuum,
poor drivability,
lack of power
.
Instruction are readily available on the net if you do a search. It's pretty a pretty simple proceedure.
Good luck.
NAHHH man it's old school. The secret is being revealed now: it's not a GT40 5.0. It's a straight-eight out of a 1936 Packard 180. Nice thick babbitt so if you rev it above 3 grand it'll pound it to moosh in like 10,000 miles!!! :hick:
We had none of those problems before, and yes it is basically a stock / factory build. Stock cam, SVO ford heads stock 1.7 Ford rockers.
We also have check the amount of rotation at torque spec and we do have rocker shims. If the block or heads get resurfaced we will check pushrod length.
Thanks for the info!!!
The first build of the 306 used stock push rods without problem. Nothing is changing as far as the valve train is concerned. :) And I measured a stock one just to be sure. 6.25"
Naaaaaaah that's the PRICEY one there. Now THEM THERE BUICKS were done right, with the thin stuff. Rev them things to the moon? Nooooo problem. Brraaaap brraaaaaaaap :shakeass:
So it's been yet another several weeks without an update; things have been pretty hectic lately, but we're finally making some headway on the Tbird. The main bearing and rod bearing clearances have all been checked and given the green light, so now the block will be headed out for honing and cam bearings before final assembly can finally begin.
Also, after the oil pressure fiasco with the 306 last year, I knew that this time around I would make sure to have proper gauges due to the factory gauges' finnicky nature. We finally got around to installing them today and I love how it came out:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/gauges2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/gauges1.jpg)
The stainless steel plate was made with a laser cutter, thanks to a friend at my dad's work. After driving around for the past several months with the factory oil pressure gauge reading quite low, I was pleasantly surprised when she fired right up and idled at 30lbs (at operating temperature), and she cruises at 50lbs doing 1500rpm. Not bad for a stock, non-rebuilt engine with 165k miles and plenty of neglect and abuse. I love the piece of mind of seeing exactly what my engine is doing. Tomorrow we'll be setting up the fan control system.
Looks good, I just ordered 2 gauges yesterday to do the same thing.. Tired of the low high stock gauges too..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/fancontrol.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Reviving%20Tbird/relays.jpg)
Installed the Dakota Digital dual speed fan control setup today. Such an awesome setup, and has a preset setting for reading off the auto meter temp gauge. Going down the road, she doesnt even need the high speed; just kinda goes between low and off. Just gotta make a cover for the relays in the engine bay.
I really like your car! I'm also in NC (Charlotte area) and noticed that you did the 5 speed swap. Do you still have any of your automatic parts? Like shifter and linkage?
Would love to see the car in person sometime!
I'm pretty sure I've got some of those parts laying around somewhere, I'll go take a look tomorrow after work. Thanks for the compliment! I'm about an hour and a half from Charlotte and might be moving there sometime in the near future.
Looks great! Very clean install of everything.
Thanks! The brakes and rear axle/wheel bearings need to be done next, then we should be ready to go full bore and finish off the 306 project.
Shredder - just sent you a PM
306 block is now being honed and should be back in my hands by mid week next week, ready for final assembly. Woooooo!
Got it. Replied. I would love to catch up sometime. Can't wait to see your car in person! Once you get it running again we will meet up at a show or something.
Wow, so I've been gone for a while...looks like I missed out on quite a bit! I'm glad to see the forum stayed afloat :) . Anyways, after a long long journey, things are finally starting to look good. I finally stumbled across the possible initial failure point of the 306, while wiping down my old lifters a couple of weeks ago:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/liftergouging2.jpg)
Apparently, the cam walked back slightly and started gouging the lifters. The lifters are obviously done for, but the cam is still in good shape luckily. So with all of that out of the way.....
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs449.ash2/72267_467688778023_667463023_5557991_234888_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs909.snc4/72267_467688758023_667463023_5557990_3623280_n.jpg)
She's baaaaaaaaaaack :D . Got the short block cleaned and assembled today, installed and degreed the cam, and got the heads torqued down. Expect some nearly complete photos tomorrow. Estimated date of installation: November 27th. Stay tuned.
Cool man glad your getting close.. I know exactly how you feel ( or felt ) during the Whole process .. Good job with seeing it through
Good to see you are still working towards your goal! Your car is one of my favs on the forum. Post up plenty of pics when you get finished.
Wow. Your lifters got wiped out from cam walk? Make sure that cam thrust plate is the right kind for your billet steel cam sprocket. Also, make sure your cam bolt is tightened to the correct spec so it doesn't happen again.
Looks great! I have a smallblock in a similar stage. But just waiting for the car to get painted. :)
Stay with it!
Thrust plate torque is very small if I'm remembering correctly... like 10 lb? Did the machine shop explain how this happened?
Giggidy giggidy
Ford blue engine paint ;)
What a great thread, and an awesome build...very inspiring. the car turned out really clean.
Good luck with the rest of the build.
Make sure you put thread lock on that cam bolt.
I think after 82 pages of this thread,it's time to hear the engine running.
Yeah.... What Vinnie said....
Most of the reason why I bring this up, I did not to my car when I did my timing chain. Its been bugging the out of me for a while now.
Well guys, I thought I would never be able to say this again buuuuuuut...........the 306 has been REBOOOOORN!!! She came to life on the first turn of the key. Aside from a few small odds and ends, she's running beautifully. I also fixed the clutch stiffness issue, which makes it much more enjoyable to drive...as if the extra horsepower wasn't enough! Excuse me while I go randomly driving now...
(and yes, pics and vids will be posted in the next day or two...for now, you'll have to deal with the pics below)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs983.snc4/75621_475434348023_667463023_5661134_3787590_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs574.ash2/149600_475446048023_667463023_5661327_3722791_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs578.ash2/150070_475522668023_667463023_5662114_2315340_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1211.snc4/156354_475570908023_667463023_5663093_589158_n.jpg)
Sweet! I know you are probably out doing burnouts, holeshots, donuts and stuff right now, but don't leave us hanging on the videos man! lol.
Hahaha quite the opposite actually. Aside from occasionally laying into the throttle a bit, I'm gonna baby it for a while...I want it to last this time! I'll have a plethora of pics and vids in the coming days and weeks, so no need to worry :D
How much power do you think it'll put out? I'm hoping by dyno day here for 300 at the wheels. Got a few little things to do by then.
cool man glad your up and running. How did you guys like using the intake plate for dropping the engine and tranny in? I did it that way too and was really impressed with how fast it went in using the plate
Hopefully 250-255ish hp at the wheels and 300-310 ftlbs
The plate is the only way to install one of these engines, we love it!!!
DONE!!! lol It took 83 pages...sorry
You should be able to reach that mark. Lol, iirc you made 240 and that was with the motor having the lifter issues. Mine blew head gaskets and you've given me motivation to get back to work on it. What mods have you made since the last pull?
You remember correctly; the last pull was done with wiped main bearings and a walking cam. Since then, we've done the electric fan and underdrive pulleys. The engine also has some nicer internals like a new cast steel Eagle crank, new lifters, and new pushrods.
And a properly balanced rotating assembly
To keep the hounds at bay...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306finished3small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306finished4small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_306returned.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=306returned.mp4)
^not bad for a cold startup after a 25 degree night
Now all it needs is a snail ;0)
looks greay but why no oil pressure?
stock gauge not hooked up, replaced with a real mech gauge
Because I use these now :D
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs630.snc4/59074_437379003023_667463023_5022080_930707_n.jpg)
Stock gauges are way too unreliable for my liking. We do have the stock temp gauge hooked up in the thermostat now, just gotta find a T-piece for the oil pressure gauge. But that's just for the sake of having them functional, I never look at them.
Your knees dont hit those toggles? Oh wait...never mind :hick:
Hmm something looks familiar;)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/clean%20T-bird/DSCN1903.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/clean%20T-bird/DSCN1913.jpg)
Congrats on getting it running again. Have you thought about a MAF swap and 24lb injectors? Your engine would probably like a bit more fuel.
Last time she saw a dyno, the A/F ratio was perfect. No plans to change anything on that front. :)
I'm very interested in seeing dyno results. I'm hoping to have the Sport done soon as well. I know what I would LIKE to see from the Sport,but there's only one way to know for sure....
Hmm. I generally like that blue but I'm not feeling it at all on that intake.
It's not yours,why criticize it? Maybe he likes it.
I may have some blue on my GT40 intake....or not. We'll see.I'm still working on ideas.
I like the blue on Thunderjet's engine,I think it's tastefully done.One thing bothers me about it....that mold line on the front. Those kill me. LOL.
Here's the Sport's engine when I got her. Still sends shivers down my spine when I see this.....
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/100_1732.jpg)
We've come a loooooong way.
I assume he likes it, it's his car. I didn't criticize it per se' but posting pics on an open forum invites critique. I just commented that i wasn't feeling it. Maybe if he feels the need to show it off he can start a new thread.
Yes !!! We need a "show your engine thread" !!! Good thinking Shame. I'm on it right now......
Done !!!
I don't mind. I know everyone doesn't like the Ford blue as much as I do :)
I know that feelin! Here's how the 306 started out:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/HPIM1154.jpg)
And the engine bay:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/disassembly003small.jpg)
Final product:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/306finished4small.jpg)
Random update. Been rompin in the 306 a bit lately...it's been nothing short of impressive. At one of my favorite spots, I slowly rolled the car out then went WOT in a non-abrupt manner and was shocked when she spun the rear tires all the way through 1st :burnout: :evilgrin: . The Tbird never did that before!!! Needless to say...I was all smiles the rest of the way home hahaha. And she's runnin great still; exactly how I wanted. The low end torque is awesome. Lay into it at 1500rpm in any gear and she'll take right off. Amazing fun driving around town haha.
I'm proud for you. It's been a long time. I was flogging the Sport and when I hit second (about 30mph or so),the car lost all traction when I romped the gas pedal.I gotta work on that.
Geez, you guys forgot what 150 hp was.
Yeah mine yanks really hard when I hit 2nd. With a good shift I'm sure she'll spin em.
Anyways...some finalized pics:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/final306pic2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/final306pic1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/final306pic3.jpg)
Looking good :)
You should look into going with 355s or 373s next.. Just do a tc rear swap. My old Tbird ran great with 373s on it's 306 combo with the t5. Yeah first gear was short but she was movin like a bat out of hell off the line. With the weight of these cars you really need to get this fat girl movin. Second gear would spin hard, third would chirp everytime..
1st gear is already really short...I have no problems off the line :D . I hope to have some vids when my friend is back over christmas break. I like where I'm at as far as rear end and gearing. The 7.5 is a posi and I have plenty of gear off the line. The 8.8 is heavy and any shorter gear would make 1st utterly useless (I have the 3.35 1st gear). I'd never get traction and 1st gear would end at 15mph; I'd lose time at the track.
I had a 3.35 1st gear too, and a more agressive combo.. the 373's made 1st shorter but 2nd,3rd, 4th were stronger after the swap. I guess you need to run it at the track and see what your 60s look like to be sure.
327s are a great street gear.
If you are worried about getting out of the hole, the only way more gear is going to help is with "more tire". Tires would be the better mod. I'd leave the gears alone. Other than that the steeper gears aren't going to bring ET down much.
I'd also start building an 8.8 if you think you're going to drag it, as specially with traction.
You're on the same page as me as far as gearing. I have absolutely no problems gettin outta the whole; she's a monster off the line. And I don't really plan on gettin DRs or doing any serious racing with it
7.5 wont last long??? I've put the gears out the back pan of two of them. So 8.8 id be looking too???
I think that if he stays away from drag radials or slicks he'll be fine. He'll spin before it breaks. The weakness in the 7.5 is the pinion. With 4.10s or lower the the pinion is smaller and tend to break EZ. For a street car, I dont see a problem with a 7.5.
Besides, I don't beat on the car or launch it hard very often. It is the posi rear too, which helps. I've heard that they can stand up to more abuse than many give them credit for.
Here it is, finally...a good video of the 306 in action. Mostly just an overview/ride along, but a couple of WOT runs thrown in as well.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_Stella.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=Stella.mp4)
And for those who just want the best WOT clip without watching the rest, here it is
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/th_StellaAcceleration.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Engine%20Project/?action=view¤t=StellaAcceleration.mp4)
Enjoy!
Cool.... I like it.
What exhaust is on it?
So which one do you like better? The white one or the red one? :) I have a blue TC that i'm gonna transplant a 306 into.
I love both cars. They both have advantages and disadvantages. I love the sunroof, clutch, and steering feel of the TC and I love the super clean engine bay, horsepower/torque, and sound of the white car. The turbo 4cyl is intriguing to listen to and fun to drive in its own right, but nothing beats the growl and seat-of-the-pants feel of a V8.
Just stock shorty headers with a summit O/R H pipe and cheap Cherry Bomb Turbo 2 lers.
Love the sound! Makes me want a 5 speed even worse!
Sounds great :).
What's that whistle noise in some of the acceleration runs?
Thanks for the compliments guys :)
I don't hear any whistling....you might hear the tranny whine a little bit when i pull out of my driveway or something but I dont hear anything during the acceleration runs. Maybe just the open windows? Or you watched the vid of the Turbo Coupe haha.
I bet you it's the tranny whine I'm hearing. I'm not used to that as I have an AOD ;).
You need to start abusing that thing. Yes yes it's true, I do not care if the silver car's tranny explodes in a blaze of hellfire....but CMONNNNN! Nothing more badass than being sideways in 1st, wide open, slamming 2nd and continuing the burnout. I gotta try and get 3rd too next. I know she'll do it. Let's see THAT in a video. :P
(see now you have to listen to mike, aaaand me too lol)
That's the transmission I bet. The camera is right next to it down on the seat.
Nice pair of birdies!
Yeah...I love the tranny whine. It sounds cool haha. I don't think the Turbo Coupe does that though, but thats probably because the tranny is in better shape.
Yeah I know; I haven't even started shifting at 5500 yet. I just wanted to wait a bit and get the 306 well proven before really going crazy on it. Also, it's not super easy to break these tires loose...the old engine couldnt do it without a hard launch. The 306 can do it from a roll easily. I chirped 3rd the other day though, which was awesome.
She's gonna GO or she's gonna BLOWWWWWW. She ain't blown yet so RIP IT UP and CAUSE PROBLEMS.
SHOW UP
RAISE HELL
CORRUPT YOU
LEAVE!!!!
Finally got around to a mod I had been wanting to do. First, the tailights were taken completely apart and polished inside and out. They came out fantastic! Have a look...
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270280_10150258843698024_667463023_7465958_225916_n.jpg)
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268702_10150258843838024_667463023_7465961_6219440_n.jpg)
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/263049_10150258844003024_667463023_7465963_5288271_n.jpg)
Then we installed a sequential tailight kit...here's a video of it:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/recent%20Tbird%20pics/th_tailights.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/recent%20Tbird%20pics/?action=view¤t=tailights.mp4)
http://www.webelectricproducts.com/ That's where I got the kit from. It went together so nicely; didn't have to run any extra wiring. Just tapped into the existing harness with minimal cutting and splicing. I definitely recommend it for anyone wanting to do this mod. Doesn't take long at all.
No matter what I do to the Sport, the sequentials will always be my favorite part.
Where have you been, loser? Haven't seen you around in a long time. I've swapped intakes 7 or 8 times and valve covers 5 or 6 times since I've sen you around last.LOL.LOL.
Nice mods to the car. I did the same thing a while back. Disassembled the lights and polished the outer lenses, and the inner tinted lens. Came out great. What's next on your list? ...um...painting that black trim on the rear bumper....maybe?LOL
Haha everybody gets a laugh out of the yellow bumper. One of the next things I want to do is save up for a paint job. I have a whole different bumper that will be going on so I'm just going to wait until then.
I've been more of a lurker lately...just been driving the cars around and going to car shows. Not really doing much work on them haha.
I've been pretty busy with the Sport the last three days. Feels good,too. I needed that "therapy" for a change. The Sport loved it as well.
A couple of weeks ago I installed the ChuckW mounts and new headers. Again, good feeling.
Good to see you back.
Nice! What did you use to polish if you don't mind me asking?
I used whatever dad had in the garage...I'll have to take a look tomorrow and let you know.
Ugh it's been way too long since I posted here haha...
So it's time for the next major project that I have been wanting to do for a very long time...get rid of the 4x4 stance. I've already scored a set of Suspension Tech front springs, caster camber plates, offset steering rack bushings, and rear strut brackets thanks to ivygreen. Next, I'm looking to order a set of these:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/TOK-HB3026K/87-93-Mustang-Tokico-Hp-Series-Strut-Shock-Kit
The only thing now is to decide on what rear spring I want to use. I already have a set of rear springs off of a 2002 Mustang GT...but should I get something else instead? Haven't decided yet.
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The midget is back? Omgwtfh4x
He's ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! long time no see neighbor.....
Haha yep I'm still around. Hope all is well :)
If you don't have time or money for trim black paint you can always plasti-dip it.
The first parts have arrived!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/kingcars/Suspension%20Project/firstparts.jpg)
Suspension Tech front springs , MAC caster/camber plates, offset steering rack bushings, and rear shock adapter brackets. Everything is brand new, never used. Huge thanks to ivygreen for the generous deal. I couldn't ask for a better set of parts to start the project off with.
Boing! Boing boing boing......
This may be a dumb question, but what keeps the offset rack bushings from spinning and letting the rack move side to side under a steering load?
Nice car. Not to sound nasty but I would avoid Armor All, use a non silicone protectant.