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Topic: Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past? (Read 6837 times) previous topic - next topic

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/15/gentlemen-start-your-lasers-ford-dumping-spark-plugs-in-favor/

Quote
In a breakthrough that may make vehicle starting issues due to fouled plugs or inclement weather a thing of the past, engineers at Ford have reportedly teamed with scientists at Liverpool University to develop a laser beam ignition system to replace ye olde spark plug. The researchers claim their technology is more efficient, more reliable, and it will enable vehicles to start easier in extreme temperatures and damp climates.

Unlike traditional spark plugs (invented way back in 1839 by Edmond Berger), laser light may be split into multiple beams distributing ignition points within the cylinders – not just at the tip of the plug. This not only aids combustion, it also lowers emissions during cold starts. Researchers also point out that the lasers use less energy than their spark plug counterparts, eliminate wear items and wires (fiber optics will carry the laser beam to the cylinders), and improve fuel burn by "watching" ignition from within the combustion chamber and sending messages back to the ECU to adjust fuel mixtures, timing, and ignition.


More reading on the subject:

http://www.v8.co.nz/news/3900/ford-looking-to-replace-spark-plugs-with-lasers

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_article/366468/12/none/none/TECHN/University-scientists-enter-new-phase-of-automotive-laser-ignition-research-with-For
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Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #1
Interesting development for sure!

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #2
Pretty cool stuff. With advancements like this, you can see why the days of the "dumb mechanic" have been gone for many years!
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Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #3
Two questions.

1) How do they keep the lenses clean?

2) How are they going to build these things for less than $10 a piece? As if paying for DI fuel injectors and rails won't be expensive enough, now the average grease monkey has to worry about paying for lasers every time they replace their ignition set. Fibre Optic plug wires should be nice and pricey too.

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #4
Quote from: oldraven;282939
Two questions.

1) How do they keep the lenses clean?

2) How are they going to build these things for less than $10 a piece? As if paying for DI fuel injectors and rails won't be expensive enough, now the average grease monkey has to worry about paying for lasers every time they replace their ignition set. Fibre Optic plug wires should be nice and pricey too.


I would think that the laser itself, if capable of generating enough instant heat to ignite the intake charge, would be capable of keeping the laser lens clean.

As for the costs of replacement, yes they would be higher, but not when calculated over the lifetime of the vehicle. think about it, you might have to replace the fiber-optic cabling once in a vehicles 300,000 mile lifetime as compared to 5 or 6 times on a normal spark ignition vehicle.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
"as if 'religion' were something God invented, and not His statement to us of certain quite unalterable facts about His own nature." -C.S. Lewis

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #5
if they are using fiber optic cables you would think the laser its self would be located outside of the engine.

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #6
Quote from: ProTouring442;282958
I would think that the laser itself, if capable of generating enough instant heat to ignite the intake charge, would be capable of keeping the laser lens clean.

As for the costs of replacement, yes they would be higher, but not when calculated over the lifetime of the vehicle. think about it, you might have to replace the fiber-optic cabling once in a vehicles 300,000 mile lifetime as compared to 5 or 6 times on a normal spark ignition vehicle.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill


In my experience, new technology in cars NEVER ends up costing the owner less, over the long term, let alone the fact that advancements like this always raise the initial price of the vehicle. These new hub/wheel bearing assemblies were supposed to cost less in the long term, because they were supposed to last longer. Well, I priced wheel bearings out on the T-bird, and you can get them online for under $20 US. I just bought a hub bearing for my Saturn, and it cost $162 CAD ($146 US). Do you think it lasted 7x longer than the original in my Ford? Not bloody likely. This is the third one I've had to replace in as many months (two rear at once, and now a front), and I'm expecting to finish the set some time in the next year.

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #7
can you hold my laser plug while i test for spark

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #8
Quote from: Innes;283018
can you hold my laser plug while i test for spark

put yur finger on er and see if you can feel anything :hick:

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #9
I bet these are more on a AM phase out program. Who uses it much but it is still there and you can get those radio's still.

Stuckman
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Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #10
Quote from: FLSTCI71;282938
Pretty cool stuff. With advancements like this, you can see why the days of the "dumb mechanic" have been gone for many years!


Yep, and here are the days of the underpaid, overworked mechanic who gets less and less work due to  like this.

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #11
I read a while back that GM was working on a compression based ignition gas motor for a while, if I recall correctly they had the mule motor in a Saturn Aura. Idea was like taking a diesel and making a gas motor work the same way. Controlled detonation sounds quite difficult.

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #12
The engine you're referring to is an HCCI. It's a hybrid between spark and compression ignition, using spark under some scenarios (under load) and compression with a very lean mixture under light load. It's still a few years off, because as you've said, it's difficult to control combustion with an HCCI engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCCI

I imagine this laser tech will probably be used in an HCCI-type engine.
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Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #13
Quote from: oldraven;283007
In my experience, new technology in cars NEVER ends up costing the owner less, over the long term, let alone the fact that advancements like this always raise the initial price of the vehicle. These new hub/wheel bearing assemblies were supposed to cost less in the long term, because they were supposed to last longer. Well, I priced wheel bearings out on the T-bird, and you can get them online for under $20 US. I just bought a hub bearing for my Saturn, and it cost $162 CAD ($146 US). Do you think it lasted 7x longer than the original in my Ford? Not bloody likely. This is the third one I've had to replace in as many months (two rear at once, and now a front), and I'm expecting to finish the set some time in the next year.


96 kia sophia hub bearing= 175 bux

Spark Plugs -- Soon to be a thing of the past?

Reply #14
everytime i see a random thread like this , i have to reflect back to when brit and I were first married and all we had was this...........
http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_chevrolet_citation.htm

sticker said 38mpg.  We got in the 30's no matter hwy or city.

I had to say it because when i go to the link by V8demon, there is a car on top there boasting 32mpg.


our technology is spinning thier wheels doing alot of nothing.  we are getting nowhere real fast with little time to waste doing it.

What I discovered by accident was the rebuild kit increased my compression as the old pistons were deep dished while the new ones had fly cut reliefs.  At the time, I didnt know what to expect.  Our gas mileage actually increased as well as power.

This "big" little car is going on 30years old and the general public forgets quickly and somehow finds 32mpg appealing. 

Its going on 30 years ago and we had better gas mileage than new cars today,, can I make a point or not?

If you want efficiency,, get an old car, cheaper parts, prob better on gas (as i would point out and tip my had to GM's 2.5L).  With one tiny litte lone fuel injector, that car really raised the bar as far as efficiency goes.  To add to the mix,, the sucker had more storage then you could use most of the time.

What if,, just what if,
They decided to take the Iron Duke 4cyl and made improvements to it?  could we easily see 50mpg highway?  maybe 60 or 70?

This car would'nt even qualify for the cash for clunkers program because it probably exceeds sticker mpg of the new car,, go figure