New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

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New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

March 09, 2011, 06:46:54 PM

Hey Guys, maybe gals,

I'm new to this site, but am not new to working on old Fords/Mercs. I bought an 83 cougar, wanted it since the first time I seen it in the city I live in, and well now it's mine :D

The 3.8, I think C5? and 7.5 just isn't working for me, and the 3.8 I think has spun a bearing. I bought an 82 half ton for parts for my other truck and the engine to build for this car. I found an 8.8 from a stang with 3.73 gears and LS, haven't looked into a tranny yet cause we'll see what kind of parts I get on the girl before i look into that.

Anyways, what am i getting at is what do I need for this 351w to fit into this Cougar. so far looking at it I am wondering with the bigger deck height of the 351 compared to 302, will the brake booster fit? I wanna run long tube headers, any recomendations? Can i use the oil pan off a Crown Vic 351?

This is the car the day i brought it home.

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #1 – March 09, 2011, 06:50:45 PM

Man, that car looks sweet

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #2 – March 09, 2011, 07:04:17 PM

Welcome.

I believe the brake booster will clear fine. Headers..... Im not sure. I dont think it needs specific engine swap headers or anything like that. Oil pan, not sure either, someone will chime in though.

Great looking car. Any more pics?

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #3 – March 09, 2011, 07:17:59 PM

Welcome to the site...and nice looking Cougar.

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #4 – March 09, 2011, 07:59:40 PM

Here's a few more pics of the car, needs a lot of work.

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #5 – March 09, 2011, 08:49:44 PM

Yes, you'll need the parts that are required to put a 351w in any fox....I'm pretty certain the CV 351w pan and pickup will do...there's also windsor fox swap headers but not sure of the brand, maker etc.

The booster should be good to go.

Keep in mind the Stang 8.8 overall width is narrower than the 7.5 you have now...the tires will sit in the wheelwells further. It looks hideous, I had a Stang 8.8 in my Sport, ended up pulling it back out for a TC 8.8 rear.

Are you going to carb the engine, or fuel injection?

Costwise, carb would be easier and cheaper.

There's several very helpful threads about windsor swaps....a feller by the name of sick88tbird has a ed good one....i dunno if search is working..I tried to look earlier for something and had a page load error.

Nice cat, btw, and welcome aboard. Always good to see one fixed instead of f'ckin smashed. :)

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #6 – March 09, 2011, 08:54:47 PM

Bob has a nice build thread.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?18790-408-stroker-project-(update-2-25-11-added-first-video-)-)

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #7 – March 09, 2011, 11:09:40 PM

Thanks for the advice guys
how much difference is the rear end?
can it be fixed just by wider tires and different wheels?

i am going to stick with carb, i prefer carb.
the 90 f150 i'm doing right now i'm swapping to carb as well
but i'll be sure to check out what other guys have got for windsor swaps

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #8 – March 24, 2011, 11:49:09 AM

With an 87-93 Mustang 8.8 you simply need a different offset in the wheels to properly center the tires in the wheel wells. If you got with the 87-93 Mustang 8.8 it will be drum brakes and four lug just like what you have now so it will just bolt in. You will still have front brakes that are highly suspect to say the least. They are 10" diameter with a 60mm single piston caliper...just enough to stop that car but if you add the 351W not near enough.

As Bruce stated the 87-88 TC rear is a direct bolt in and it is four lug. If you go with a TC rear it will also be disc brake but four lug. I would suggest that you switch the front spindles over to the 87-93 Mustang GT or 87-88 TC spindles & rotors. Get the SVO 73mm front calipers which can be had at a local parts store for cheap and you can slip them your old calipers for the cores. This will give you 11" diameter brakes up front with the larger caliper and will stop the car adequately. If you do this you will need to swap the master cylinder over one more suited to the larger brakes. I believe the original port design on your car is a two port so an '85 Lincoln Towncar with a 1" bore is about the best unit for most all brake upgrades. It will bolt right in and the stock brake lines have the same thread. The MC can be easily obtained at a local auto parts store and you can slip them your old MC for the core.

You can also install an SN95 Mustang rear end with disc brakes and it will work like the TC rear except it is five lug. This would be from a V6 or GT car and I know the 94-98 cars will work and maybe 99 but not 100% sure on that year. Its either 99 or 2000 when the rear on the Mustangs got even wider. If you go the disc brake route with the SN95 rear then I would suggest you do a search and use the SN95 spindles, rotors, and calipers up front and just move over to five lug. This will also require that you change the master cylinder and brake booster. Again, I would suggest that you use the '85 Lincoln Towncar master cylinder. The brake booster of choice would be the '93 Mustang Cobra unit as it has the same bolting pattern as the stock unit in your car now. You will notice that the Cobra unit is bigger so you may need to slightly tweak the brake lines for them to line up. You will also need a brake line adapter for the right front which is a Weatherhead 7828 available at most parts stores.

The stock proportioning valve will need to be modified if you go to rear disc or to install an adjustable proportioning valve. You will need the FMS part: M-2450-A and an adjustable proportioning valve to complete the modification. The stock PV is housed in the front part of the combination block. This block is under the master cylinder and houses the PV and shuttle valve or pressure differential valve. You can do a search on this as to how to modify the PV.

It probably more than you wanted to know but realize its just an overview. Got here to really understand what all is involved in most brake upgrades for our cars as they are very similiar to the Mustangs:

http://home.comcast.net/~mjbobbitt/mustang/page1.html

Use the search function and you will learn a lot really quick but don't be afraid to ask a question either as most of the guys here have been there and done that.

Darren

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #9 – March 24, 2011, 02:48:10 PM

Your 351 swap won't cut it with a C5, Your long tube headers will depend on the trans you do decide on. But hell if your willing you can make anything work.
You got a decent start to a project.

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #10 – March 29, 2011, 04:19:49 PM

thanks for the advise guys, all the brake stuff is good to know. I don't wanna use the c5 and am thinking on building up a c4 with a higher stall. I want big power out of the motor, full roller, good heads, i want this car fast, really fast.

could anyone recomend what to do for front suspention? i'm thinking about going with coil overs in the front since the engine is heavier than the 3.8 and i want it lowered as well.

But i am willing to spend money on this car. I got 3 vehicles and in my truck i am currently building a 351w for that will put out about 400hp 450ftlb, it will be my daily driver, the cougar i want to be my fun car that will blow away mostly whatever pulls up beside it.

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #11 – March 29, 2011, 11:20:34 PM

Do I spy a digital dash cluster?? Very nice Cougar there.

You may not realize it but its in pretty good shape considering its age and the usual condition of cars that a lot of us end up starting with...

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #12 – May 03, 2011, 03:02:49 PM

ya it sure is a digital dash

ok guys, i'm starting to think i'm not gonna put my truck together now, as its not the year of truck i really wanna build anyway
but the motor i'm building, and just waiting for the machine shop but it has
351w:
-shaved crank(had 2thou wear)
-40 over kieth black flat tops
-arp rod bolts
-getting decked to as much compression as i can get on pump gas (11:1?)
- comp cam extreme 4x4 cam (.490 lift, 270 dur i think? power range 1000-5300) like i said, built for a truck, lots of tourque
-hardened push rods
-pro comp 195 aluminum heads
-procomp roller tip rockers
-edelbrock 351w performer intake
-edelbrock carb

so anyways, i have my cougar sitting here, waiting until my truck is done, or should i just bring the cougar in the shop, throw this motor into the car?
another thing is, i have bought a rebuilt c6 for the truck, has anybody put one into a fox body before?

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #13 – May 04, 2011, 10:53:30 AM

I don't think the C6 will fit the trans tunnel on the Fox cars. Typically you see guys running built C-4's or Power Glides behind the 351W based motors. A well built AOD might survive as well but I don't know any guys running one. IMO I would rethink your cam if you are going to put that motor in a car as well as ditching the Edelbrock carb and going with a Demon.

Darren

New To The Site, 3.8-5.8W swap!

Reply #14 – May 04, 2011, 02:28:35 PM

Thanks for the reply, I also agree with the cam, I'm sure sometime soon I will convert it to roller, I really like the edelbrocks and carters so will probably stick with that.

How much power can a stock c4 take?