Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Topic: Once again, door windows/tracks/clips (Read 9994 times) previous topic - next topic

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

April 30, 2012, 01:32:57 AM

So last winter I rolled the window down and there was enough ice to make the motor rip the jb-welded clips off of the drivers side window. Getting back to fixing this, I went into looking at WHY the windows come off. I removed the window and cleaned everything off today.

Halfway down, the window needs to move downward closer to the outer shell of the door. The problem is the window track is closer to the center of the door, which pulls it in further than the window guides allow. I cleaned and glued the rear door guide to prevent the rubber from sliding down again, since this seems to be the main cause of motor hesitation in the past. That guide looked fine, and I do not see how to remove the guide near the front of the door.

The question I have - do all of your guys' windows and tracks not want to descent and ascend together? Should I just JB-weld the thing back together, or is there something else I can do to get the two aligned better? I have no idea how to remove all the window linkages, and it would be near impossible having dampening mat covering everything, but I'd like to find a good fix for these issues - or at least best I can. I'd prefer to not hear the window motor struggle anywhere in the movement. Ideas?

I'm to the point that I'm thinking of finding two new doors, re-dampening them more carefully with the new, CLEANER, mass-loading materials on the market, and go from there. Applying closed cell foam to the door panel rather than the door itself would make other work easier...

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #1 – April 30, 2012, 07:32:27 AM

Ford fastened their windows to their regulators like this for a long time, I fix a couple of these a month during the summer. The trick is to get the tabs attached to the window in the right spot, or the regulator arm will tear them off sideways. Also, you need something that will still be just a little flexible, and J B Weld is too hard. In dealer we spray everything down in brake cleaner after its "clean" and fix the tabs back to the window with black RTV. That's right Black RTV. Blue is too soft, grey is too hard, and nobody should use orange for anything but exhaust, as it's resistant to heat, but nothing else. BLACK RTV, fill the tab with it, press it on, put the window in and roll the window up. leave it up for 2 to 3 days and you're good; assuming you've put the tabs in the right spots.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #2 – April 30, 2012, 10:11:31 AM

Any comments on the track wanting to pull away from the window (horizontally) about halfway down the window's travel? Is this normal behavior for these car's window tracks?

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #3 – April 30, 2012, 10:30:16 PM

Make sure it's not the window pulling away from the track, or the track hanging unsecured. Also, if you DID use an epoxy, and it didn't yield while your tabs were out of their correct position, I would guess that it would find other ways to pull itself apart. Remember that the original mounting had enough give to it to allow the tabs to flex and stretch a little. J B Weld is, like any other epoxy, hard and solid. If you reach a point in the windows movement where it is intended for the tabs to flex, and they are unable, you'll definitely get some bind at that point. Seriously, brake cleaner and BLACK RTV. Don't forget to spray your window runs with silicone spray lube, also.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #4 – April 30, 2012, 11:41:25 PM

The fact that the track is far away from the window at the halfway point is what worries me. The track goes under the window again at the top and bottom of the travel. See the pictures below to see what I mean. The scratches came from sing the jbweld off and is now a concern with the stress being placed on the window from the clips. I have spare windows available I can grab in the coming months.

Clip vertical:

Clip leaning in to window:

Condition of guides:

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #5 – May 01, 2012, 04:04:00 AM

Honestly, I think the window shape has more to do with the travel then the cruddy metal that tracks it.

As a former smoker, I rolled my window up and down constantly all winter for two years. Jb weld didn't work for more then a couple days. Black windsheild adhesive worked very well. After getting the drivers side done, decided to just throw some on passemger side. It was binding badly on passenger side, but worked for 2 years that way. The clip wasn't even close to lined up.

With everything lined up and clean, run the window up and down a couple times and watch where the clips self center, I marked mine off with electrical tape. Then I pulled the window back out and glued it outside the window. This was because I was doing it in the middle of winter, and winsheild adhesive is expensive, and one time use.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #6 – May 01, 2012, 06:46:55 AM

Home depot for some various steel to fab a full length window fixture. Fire up the spark machine and get window adhesive. When finished you will have a full length clamp rail and never have that issue again. I make dozens of these and they work perfectly. This is the only way i found to fix the issue. Once you make the full length rail fill it with window GOOP. Install it and crank the window closed. Next morning you window will work flawlessly for many many years. The 2 little plastic GYZMOS are inadequate to hold the assembly and should not be used. You can also use several plastic GYZMOS glued to the glass and use an aluminum cross bar between the regulator mounting points if you do not have a SPARK MACHINE or dont know how to weld. Bolt a piece of flat stock across the mounting points and install several clips along the window. 2 clips just wont hold. Below is a rail i made for the MIDNIGHTER

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #7 – May 01, 2012, 07:24:03 AM

Did anybody else notice that his window regulator is twisted like a pretzel? For crying out loud, in one pic it's mounting bar is beyond the window track! The regulator should be flat, as if once removed from the door, it would lay flat on the ground. He's binding because his regulator is bent up. You can make all the custom fixes you want, but in the end, he still needs a window regulator and BLACK RTV. This is what I do for a living, Electrical and trim. At the Dealer. I am a specialist, and I know a borked regulator when I see one. These pictures say more to me about the problem than he ever could. The regulator cannot POSSIBLY move the window through its proper range of motion in this condition. Pull the regulator. And replace the missing bushing for the power lock actuator.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #8 – May 01, 2012, 10:27:59 AM

The pictures helped me understand the interior of the door, but it's still a tight fit. How many bolts are there because years ago I tried to remove everything from the door for complete paint, but couldn't.

Also, those plastic clips for the power lock aren't a get-it-at-the-junkyard type part?! The rattling has been annoying me for awhile and I thought my only chance was pulling a used brittle one from another car! Nice to see you noticed that - you DO know what to look for.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #9 – May 01, 2012, 11:57:35 AM

No, they're a $1.50 part at the dealer. We all still have them or can get them. For the regulator, try Dorman, as you probably won't get one from Ford anymore.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #10 – May 01, 2012, 12:47:20 PM

Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;388547

Did anybody else notice that his window regulator is twisted like a pretzel? For crying out loud, in one pic it's mounting bar is beyond the window track! The regulator should be flat, as if once removed from the door, it would lay flat on the ground. He's binding because his regulator is bent up. You can make all the custom fixes you want, but in the end, he still needs a window regulator and BLACK RTV. This is what I do for a living, Electrical and trim. At the Dealer. I am a specialist, and I know a borked regulator when I see one. These pictures say more to me about the problem than he ever could. The regulator cannot POSSIBLY move the window through its proper range of motion in this condition. Pull the regulator. And replace the missing bushing for the power lock actuator.

I cant see the twist and before posting my fix which by the way works perfectly. I did not look at his photos. But as a professional in this area i have repaired dozens of these windows. If the regulator is bent that has to be addressed. And just for the record why did the factory clips break away from the glass in the first place. Answer age and bad design. And normally when it breaks away the regulator gets bent. Of course it has to be straightened. Just curious what is the RTV fore and why BLACK???? Not to hold the plastic clips in???? Because that does not work. Now i have several cars with my fix that works. Just trying to pass on info and stuff i design. Bottom line is i increased the holding area 10 FOLD. As for the straightness of the regulator that is a GIVEN. So bottom line is 2 silly clips that are way to small for what they do are better than a full length track i designed?????? Just asking!!!! Over the years i have used every chemical on this planet to hold those clips in and nothing works. Increasing the surface area of the track works . Once it is installed it never happens again!!!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #11 – May 01, 2012, 12:59:06 PM

Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;388569

No, they're a $1.50 part at the dealer. We all still have them or can get them. For the regulator, try Dorman, as you probably won't get one from Ford anymore.

Thats why i make my own. By the way their is a company that makes them with 2 set screws that tighten up the part to the glass. THEY DONT WORK EITHER!!!

You can get some from here. But once again they dont work either!!!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-38480/?rtype=10

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #12 – May 01, 2012, 01:32:31 PM

Dorman has them. They come with different styles of them. Two of them looked the same as the ones in there, then there were two that were roughly twice the size, length and depth. I used the two large ones on one side. I also roughened up the glass with sand paper and driled a couple holes into them to give the glue more holding area. This worked well, and I think toms entire length fix work even better. What tears the window out is the window glue holding the clips in place as the window goes up and down.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #13 – May 01, 2012, 05:01:15 PM

I've been using black RTV for 13 years, it always works. Don't ask me why, when I first started when I was 19, the older guys in the shop told me to use it, and I've never had a repeat repair, except the one time I used grey rtv, and the time I tried bumper epoxy. (Both on my 87 T-Bird, but I didn't know any better at the time) Any time I did it the old timers' way, I never saw the car again for the same repair. As to the reason they originally come off in the first place, our cars are all at least 25 years old. That's a lot of cycles, and depending where you live, thermal cycling is even worse (think 0 degrees to whatever the door warms up to once the car's heat has been running). Speaking of cold weather, anybody ever get their window frozen shut? There's a reasonably finite number of times an adhesive bond can withstand that, and the reason a silicone adhesive was used by Ford and ,to the best of my knowledge, it's technicians is that it's an engineered weak point to prevent damage to other components (think fuse link). Who wants their window to break?, or the fastening points in the door to tear out?, because I've seen them all, and I'd rather have the tabs come off the window. It's easier to fix. Of course, most of the newer stuff now uses nylon connectors and hardware, or the weak point is engineered into the regulator in the form of a nylon pulley wheel, etc. But you guys with custom fixes are painting yourselves into a corner. Fixing it to death. I'm not trying to get in a g match, but I know how to fix it, and I know why it's best fixed that way.

As for the actuator bushing, spend 2.25 on a new bushing and a pop rivet, it's faster than making one or harvesting one. Just sayin.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #14 – May 01, 2012, 06:19:44 PM

But you guys with custom fixes are painting yourselves into a corner. Fixing it to death. I'm not trying to get in a g match, but I know how to fix it, and I know why it's best fixed that way.

No g match

YOU ARE WRONG ON YOUR POST. Your above post is very fascinating but entirely incorrect. By the way 100% silicone is just that. The color makes absolutely no difference. If you dont
believe me call them!!!

Fixing it to death. I'm not trying to get in a g match, but I know how to fix it, and I know why it's best fixed that way.

REALLY FASCINATING AT BEST. You do know their is special adhesive for installing those clips. And it does not WORK EITHER.

Just for the record this is what i use. Not SILICONE. Silicone is great but does not adhere to glass very well. Here you go

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=GS51JKDTTHgsQH8HT14PGTgl1ZRC9RGN5Fbl

The window issue is plastered all over every ford site. I have been fixing these windows for many many ears and i am telling you thayt i have never found any other way to eliminate the issue. And i have tried everything on this planet.