does any one know if a 347stroker fit in a 1987 ford thunder bird that has an original 5.0 or any other engine bigger than a 302that would fit
a 347 is a 302 block that is just bored out, or made bigger by drilling out the holes. A 351 wil fit with out any major modifications. You could even fit a 460.
347 is a stroked 302 and so is 331.
good thing with them is they use all the same stuff as a 302 so u dont have to change anything to fit it in there.
351W and C will fit as well. 351W is a bit easyer but u still need headers that fit a 351 into a fox. U need the pan that fits and u have to deal with motor being a bit taller.
351C headers are bit harder to get but they can be found, same thing u need oil pan and u have to deal with motor being a bit taller.
460 fits but u have motor mounts and headers and pan. That u can get as kit by the way. U have to deal with booster but if u use a smaller stang one it fits with not much room left. Still haveto deal with hight of the motor as well as front being a bit longer so u will need a elc fan set up on the rad as well as a bigger rad, 4 core or a good AL race rad.
U can do anything u want.
most importantly, a 347 will run you about a arm, leg, and your first born son. a 351w on the otherhand can be taken out of a 93 truck, rebuilt and installed for maybe just a arm. the 351 is also heavyer.
yeah but your forgetting one thing a 347 will walk away from a 351 all day long and most 351's are dogs mostly just extra weight unless you redo the whole thing a cam .30 over and new heads up the comp. and then you need the headers intakes oil pan and im not sure but dont the acc. brakets need to be diff. and when it's all said and done you probably spend some more cash and have a 347 that runs like a son of a . with small changes . like some gt40's and a cam and intake bc stock stuff still sucks but you will have an ass load of tourqe that the 351 cant touch. when it's all said and done.
the hardest thing about the 347 is the block work . you could also do a 342 a 347 stroker kit that isnt .30 over. it's been done.
i myself was thinking of the 347 but think it may be much for the stang but would have been great in the cougar.
Hmmm.. stock 351 vs. ~$1000 (first kit I found in a quick search was $1150) sunk into a 302 to make it a 347.. and we're calling the 351 a "dog" for being stock. Interesting.
i rather spend the 1150 dollars on a 302 to make a or 347 . than bulid a heavy none flowing 351 with no performance in mind.
at least if you start with a ho 302. performance was kinda in mind. you figure on both motors you have to do block work. so XXX amount of dollars on eather saying they are both in good condition and ur going .30 over.
in my opinion for the weight and disadvantages of the 351 not being a performer out of the truck or van(unless you get a lightning 351) it would not be as fast or light as the 347/342 with all the stock mustang parts. and you will have azzloads of tourqe out of the 342/347 oh and lets not forget hunting down all the 351 specific swap parts. unless going from a 6 or 4. but lets also not forget how many cars ford equiped with the HO 302 (years and producdtion numbers wise) mark Vll mustang all the way up to 95 from 86. now to me that seems eazier than hunting down a lightning 351 or the small parts.
but what do i know . to each his own thats just my preferance. and someone else may feel different. . i know i know "no replacemnt for displacement."
Erik (hope this makes sence)
no, nothing fits in an 87 tbird, the only possible swap is putting a 3.8L in your car, even if it came with a 3.8L, no other V8 will fit, ever, none, dont think about it, its too much work
347 vs. 351
If you’re considering extra cubes, then chances are you’re wrestling with a fairly common dilemma: Do you build a 347 out of your 5.0 or step all the way up to a 351? Perhaps the following info will help you decide.
351W: Advantages
• Strength: The 351W block is stronger than the production 5.0 by a long shot. Thicker walls and 3-inch main, and 2.311-inch rod journals (versus 2.248/2.123 for the 5.0) are contributing factors.
• Taller Deck: The 351W features a deck height of 9.503 inches versus the 5.0’s 8.206 inches. This means a longer rod can be used for even more cubes—up to 435 with a production two-bolt block, and 454 cubes with a four-bolt FRPP block, according to George Klass at Coast High Performance.
• Rod-to-Stroke Ratio: In stock configuration, the 351 has a better rod-to-stroke ratio than a 347 (1.70:1 for the 351W versus 1.58:1 for the 347) by virtue of its longer rods (5.956 versus 5.400 for the typical 347 rod). The 347 also features ½-inch head bolts instead of the 302 block’s 7/16-inch bolts.
351W: Disadvantages
• Size: The 351W is 2.250 inches wider than a 302, necessitating a number of changes (at additional cost) to make the swap possible. Hood clearance can become an issue, and there will be less room to service the plugs.
• Heavy Weight: The 351W is beefier and is typically more than 100 pounds heavier than a 302-based engine.
347: Advantages
• 302-based: The 347 is created when a 302 block is bored 0.030 and fitted with a 3.400 stroke crank and custom rods/pistons. This means a 347 has the extra cubes you desire, yet it can still use the same headers, manifolds, brackets, and so on as a stock 302.
• Light Weight: The 302-based engine is more than 100 pounds lighter than the 351 in stock form, and it can be made downright feathery with a few aluminum components.
347: Disadvantages (and perceived disadvantages)
• Limited Growth: While 347 ci is certainly a respectable number, it’s the practical displacement limit for a two-bolt-main production block.
• Limited Strength: A two-bolt-main production block is typically capable of withstanding up to 600 hp, and that’s with a girdle, studded mains, and so on. Even a mildly built 347 with a supercharger can bust that figure. An R302 block will solve the problem, but there goes your budget.
• Poor Rod-to-Stroke Ratio (perceived): There has been a lot of talk about the 347’s rod-to-stroke (R/S) ratio. Simply stated, the R/S ratio is the length of the connecting rod (center-to-center) versus stroke of the engine. A higher ratio means the piston stays at top dead center longer, promoting better combustion and, theoretically, more power. Compared to the 351W’s 1.70:1 R/S ratio, the typical 347’s R/S ratio of 1.58:1 doesn’t look good, but it’s actually better than a lot of other noted performance engines, including the 454 big-block Chevy (1.53:1) and 400 small-block Chevy (1.48:1). Even the legendary 428 CJ was only marginally better than a 347 at 1.63:1. Unless you’re building an engine to compete with Billy Glidden, R/S ratio really doesn’t add up to much in an otherwise well-built engine.
• Oil Burner (perceived): Piston design is critical to the success of any 347 kit, according to George Klass at CHP. Trying to improve upon the 347’s R/S ratio only moves the pin further up into the piston. If the pin is moved up into the oil ring land, the top of the pin will be located above the oil ring, allowing more oil to get past the oil rings and into the combus- tion chamber. This is how the 347 got a reputation as an oil burner. However, George says, many kits—including CHP’s—place the pin below the oil ring, so oil consumption is not a problem.
Cost Factor
The next thing you’d probably like to know is, which would be cheaper, a 347 or a 351W? As discussed, the 351W requires numerous extra parts to accomplish the swap, while the 347 doesn’t. However, depending on what 347 kit you purchase, the initial short-block may be more expensive than a 351W. Since we can’t know what combo you have planned, the best idea is to add up the cost of a 351W, factor in the extra parts, and then compare that to the cost of the 347, keeping in mind both engines can use the same heads. Our guess is that the 347 will probably be less, but depending on how serious you plan to get, a 351W swap could be equal to, or less than, the cost of a truly serious 347.
Shawn has the right idea. Glad you cleared it up, Shawn.
That is right, If you are that gay... You can't be a mechanic.. Plus the 4 cylinder was a tight fit, you should stick with a 200cc dirtbike engine.
get a beefed up hampster and a good hapster wheel, then weld that bitch to the imput shaft. you'll do burnouts all day with that combo :p
works for the Honda guys...
Don't forget your Type R stickers as well, otherwise it'll be just a regular hampster :crazy:
?? ??
did i miss something,, you would not mind PM'ing me on that would you?
yeah i hear those hampsters are running crazy numbers at the track. but i hear they run dual for the real performance nuts at the track. twice the hampster power !!!!
Just remember, that any trick you can do to a 5.0 based engine, also applies to a 5.8-I saw a 427 Windsor that was just sick, no 347 in the land would touch it, it was about a 15,000 dollar engine :dunno: :screwy:
I would stick to a 331, or a bit bigger, with a blower, and a decent shot of nitrous...'course, that 427 stroker kit is mostly aluminum-so the weight is offset-it's you call
Yea but 393-408 strokers for the 351 are cheep.... :D
Gonna do a 406 one of these days for my bird... Already have the kit, and a .020 over 351 roller block. Still need to clearance the block and get it ballanced...
Ppfffft, hamsters. If you wanna big power you gotta go guine pig. :hick:
(http://www.clubgwagen.com/extreme/engine/hamster.jpg)
:laughing:
... Today We will be installing a gineau pig that is 14 cubic inches bigger and has a longer stroke. Now If your a REAL speed freak you can swap outh the stock gineau pig for a jackrabbit
Meh, those jack rabbits are allright for the track but they got no bottom end for the street. If you drive mostly on the street and don't see track duty much there's no substitute for a groundhog.
if this would have been my first post I would not be back. I guess I just got lucky and you guys were nice to me. I dont mean to diss nobody or nothing, but I didnt know nothing when I came to the boards, and I wouldnt think very good things about it if that was one of my first posts.
I'd say that, when you make a board name like "I'm gay as hell" on a car forum, that you're opening yourself to this sort of ridicule. Just a guess, though. Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong.
In your case, I have to resist the urge to call you "Hayseed".. but it's just a play-on-words thing. :p
you can call me hay seed . I prolly wont remember or respond to it though. As long as its all in good fun I dont really care. I am just saying it makes this forum look bad.
I rather think this "ridicule" started because of the amount of (and nature of) questions the topic starter asks in the forum. Far be it for me to ridicule a newbie to the T-Bird/Cougar scene, given that I was once a newbie myself (I actually once did not know that a TC hood would fit a non-TC, and I actually thought that these cars came with the HO from the factory when I bought my first one, and worse, I once embarrassed myself by having a letter to "ASK BERNIE" in MM&FF magazine published with some REALLY stupid questions), but when it all comes down to it, with certain topics, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be asking. Some mechanical procedures are far beyond the scope of a newb, including engine swaps, gear swaps, tranny swaps, etc. There's nothing wrong with satisfying one's curiosity, but asking how to do a 351 or 347 swap when you obviously have very little automotive knowledge is an excercise in futility. We all know the chances of this swap happening are very slim.
Of course, the username likely has a bunch to do with it as well. I'd like to think that nobody here would care whether the person is gay or not, but when one signs in with a username like "I'm Gay As Hell", whether or not one is gay, one's got a perceived chip on his shoulder and can expect a bit of backlash and a lukewarm welcome. Myself, I've got no problems with gays (as has been driven into the ground in the other forum) but I do have distaste for somebody using it almost as a dare ("Go ahead, make fun of me" kind of thing). I'm sure others have similar distastes, and I'm certain that there are even those that hate gays in general, but since I've had no complaints about the user or his name (just a heads up to watch for potential trouble because of the name) I have let it be. I've locked a thread or two that he started, but ironically enough, the locks had nothing to do with the thread starter.
Make the board look bad? The very fact that the user came here with that name and aside from an offhand comment or two didn't get raked over the coals over it shows just how good natured we (usually) are around here. Anyone can see that this ribbing is all in good fun...
...either that, or Shawn's just a bitch:nutkick:
I think this would've been a bigger deal on the old board. Since the move to this board, it seems that the overall attitude of the board is hardening a little bit. I chalk it up to growing pains, others chalk it up to CougarNuts or whatever dying off.. (don't know, I don't visit it.. I've heard the horror stories) but ultimately who knows why?
Anyway, if the thread Lostcause trashed the other day can survive without a lock, I'm sure this one will manage.
What makes you say that?
All in all, my 351 project costed me probably 200.00 more than a 5.0 would've with the same buildup. This was only because I had to buy a NEW distributor and the fact that the 351W GT-40 lower costs a couple dollars more than the 5.0 one does. But I am running a totally stock 1997 F-250 shortblock with 5.0L heads and a mild 5.0L roller cam (e-303 spec) and made 311 rwhp and 375 ft/lbs. I for one would never build a 347 that wasn't based on a sportsman block or better as 5.0L blocks tend to flex
without a stroker kit. So right there your starting point is going to cost more money. You can build a 347 that will run, but getting it to last is another story. At least a 351 block is spec'd to withstand the piston speed on a larger stroke and as SirChirp said, has a better rod length to stroke ratio (allowable by the taller deck) so your block does not flex like it would with a stroker kit.
This site is too easy for people to use and find. That's how we get the idiots in here. Not saying anyone in here is said idiot. A lot of new people have shown up that actually know something and aren't here to ask dumb questions, but this site's ease of use and accessibility is what allows more bad in along with more good people. Again, I'm not talking in specific reference to this thread. But we've had a LOT more locked threads on this board than the old one.
Ok what i have learned in 3 pages?
Oh ya 351 is better then 347, If your gay who cares.
If your new here and ask dumb stuff so what everyone has to start some were.
if a bear shiznits in woods do we realy care?
If the door to shop was not stuck in Ice the car would be inside already.
But today i go and pick up a shell for all my stuff to go into.
Chirp... I never knowed you had such deep intellectual thoughts... :hick:
BTW... you ought to think about movin' South, I'm yet to have my shop door freeze shut...
Personally, I will take a 351 over a 347 any day of the week, especially if you plan on putting any miles on the car. As far as a 302 walking away from a 351 any day of the week :nono: :bs:, built to the same specs, there is no way a 302 can keep up with a 351 and you can build a naturally aspirated 400 horse 351 that you can drive every single day if you choose.
U should add me on MSN if u use it and i can send u picks of whats left of the cougar and the shop. I have snow drifts about 4 feet high along the door. The Door sucks ass too. its a sliding door and snow melts on the roof and as luck would be it runs right down to the bass of the door and turns to ice.
I got the car in with using the torchs to melt ice :)
Only have motor and tranny to pull out left to do and its already unbolted just sitting in there.
SirChirpAlot@Hotmail.com
Is this because the battery and air box are on the wrong side of the engine compartment? Would you reconsider if he was swapping out a V6 for a V8 in an 88 T-bird with the battery on the driver side and the air box on the other?
He was being sarcastic. The original poster is known for asking tons of stupid questions.
i was just being a prick
i understand coming onto a forum, and asking questions that arnt the brightest, but when its proven that you dont understand simple mechanics, like say changing spark plugs or spark plug wires for example, then you want to swap an engine...
its also no good when you come onto a forum, using the improper terminology for things, and expecting everyone to understand or want to help, or to even care, many questions can be answered with reading a few magazines, doing some google searches, browsing websites, THEN asking questions to fill the gaps
ive been reading about cars since i was 7 or 8 years old, while i have asked stupid questions, they are questions that are more "car specific" in the terms of a specific brand/make/model, that not the ordinary car guy would know
hell, i out-knowledged a ford tech of 26 years when we got into a discussion about the turbo coupes, but ask me about a 4.6L, and ill say "i dont know shiznit about those"
yeah, why know what you never need to use? :D